25-10-2003 01:48									#271
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Cort Haus is a strat forum regular and a good player. He's the one that did the recent AUSG solo diplo win threads.

As to his proposal of us taking ND's lands I don't think that's anything we want to do. We're still not exactly in any position to annoy another team by starting a war with them...and that's all we'd be is an annoyance with our current military strength.

Besides, if Lego winds up on the side of the GoW/ND alliance I don't think we want to oppose them.

	26-10-2003 18:40									#272
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I agree 100%. And the idea of the Little Bob invasion is still in the works. This argues even further for a conference chat with Lego, to come up with a plan.

We have:

1. The little Bob option.

2. The take some ND lands option.

3. Do nothing for awhile.

Personally - I am pretty happy with #3. Four of the world's other 5 nations are currently in a major slug-fest war. Great time to be rebuilding.

(now - if only we had some more land.)

	26-10-2003 21:51									#273
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I too am happy with option 3 ... but getting some more real estate would also be nice.

	26-10-2003 22:47									#274
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I am also ok with option 3

we should only join the war when it is obvious who will win

Jon Miller

	26-10-2003 23:15									#275
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#3 sounds like the best option for me right now too. I would certainly like more land (and more productive land), but the only way we can get any right now is through war or lots of deception. Once we rebuild a bit more we might be able to be more of a player in the world politics, but not right now.

	15-11-2003 21:09									#276
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A message from Cort Haus of GS - bringing up the Little Bob idea again:

PTWDG1
Hail The One!

Greetings, noble Voxians.

In a recent message I drew your attention to an island that was once ND's. I see it is now under control of GoW.

We mentioned it before, because we are concerned about the spread of Yellow Fundamentalism in the world - and particularly on Bob. We are still slightly unsure why your good friends the Legonians have seen fit to assist ND, to ensure that they become the strongest power in the world.

If our efforts to contain them fail, they will next eat up GoW, then Lego - perhaps even pausing to take your own rugged but beautuiful land in New Estonia.

What are your feelings, wise Voxians, on this rising power? We at GS would warmly welcome your thoughts on a matter that must concern us all greatly.

May the Voice be with you,

Cort Haus,
Gathering Storm

	27-11-2003 17:38									#277
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Received from Cort Haus of GS:

ptwdg1

Greetings, noble Voxians.

It's been too long since our Civs have shared news. Tell us, is there anything we can do for you? Any trade in science or resources that you may be interested in?

Also, do you have a view on the Yellow Stain that now dominates Bob, and which threatens all of us? Specifically would you have any objection to a change of the balance of forces in the world that sought to eliminate this threat?

May the Voice be with you,

Cort Haus,
Gathering Storm

	29-11-2003 12:28									#278
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curious missive indeed...

	10-12-2003 00:35									#279
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Received from asleepathewheel...

quote: Greetings Rhothaerill of Vox Controli It has been many years since our peoples have spoken. How are our brothers doing? As you know, we have been engaged in a long and draining war in defense of Spain, which might be winding itself down, we shall see. Thankfully, no Voxian blood has been spilled, for which I'm sure your people appreciate your neutrality in the conflict. We have found ourselves with an over-abundance of assorted wares and were wondering if you had any interest in them. Perhaps the women of Vox Controli would be blown away by the breathtaking aroma of the Incense of Whirlwind. Or perhaps they would enjoy wearing the comfortable yet stylish furs of Sandstorm-Guaranteed to protect against any harsh weather, be it a rain, snow or even sand. These furs maintain their warm temperature well below zero degrees, perfect for climbing the mountains of New Vox. We also have the following knowledge that we would enjoy sharing with you: the knowledge of invention and the knowledge of Chivalry. Each would serve the people of Vox well, train your citizens to become knights and establish jousting competitions for the peasantry. Use the art of invention to make knick knacks like tops and other toys for the children. Also, our alchemists are using these inventions and (please keep this a secret) might be on the verge of some new devices, we shall see how that pans out. Anyway, if you are interested in anything we possess, please let us know and we can continue the conversation. And please don't forget about your former neighbors to the South, the Gathering Storm. Sincerely, Asleepathewheel, Esq.

	10-12-2003 00:37									#280
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And my response. We will give Lego Printing Press when we have it, but I'd very much like to have some tech deals in place with the others to get as much out of the tech as we can.

quote: Greetings to asleepathewheel and the many fine people of Gathering Storm, It has been many years since our nations have spoken. We, the people at Vox Controli, have maintained a policy of non-intervention since our Voxodus from the shores of Estonia oh so many years ago. We now live in a harsh land. The rock known as Voxtavia is an unforgiving land mass and only our beaches and great fishing industry have sustained us. But the people of Voxtavia are hardy. We survive and now thrive. However, our newfound hardiness has come at the expense of fine things. We have known no luxury these many years and have come to realize that we do not need such things at this moment. In the future perhaps, as our nation continues to take shape in our new homeland, our people will once again crave the luxuries we once knew. However, we have been working on a project that might interest the people of Stormia. By necessity, much of our population consists of fishermen and mountain men, but a new generation of us have begun to study the few books we were able to bring with us. The desire for wider distribution of these books is leading us to develop a process of printing on a special press. No longer will our few scribes be forced to work day and night to produce our books. Perhaps in a few more years, once we have perfected the process we would be able to share our printing press techniques with the people of Stormia in exchange for knowledge we do not possess. Best regards to the nation of Stormia and may peace reign throughout the land. Rhoth. P.S. in simple terms, we will have printing press in several more turns and would be willing to trade it with you then for tech. If you would like to make an offer I will discuss it with the rest of my team. Thanks.

	10-12-2003 00:53									#281
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Response from asleepathewheel...

quote: Thank you for the fast response. We would be more than willing to discuss this "printing press" thing with you. A mystery to our Science ministery, how can you "invent" a printing press without invention? Ah, one of those little conundrums of our world. Anyway, we will be in touch with you later to negotiate a possible deal. If you could, could you give us a rough estimate on the eta? nothing necessarily specific, as things change from time to time, but so that GS would know when to start bothering you again Sincerely, Asleepathewheel

	10-12-2003 00:55									#282
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I saw no reason to lie about our tech pace when dealing with them for this tech so my response...

quote: We should have printing press in roughly 12 turns from 380ad. Thanks for the thoughts and Vox once again looks forward to trading with Gathering Storm. Regards, Rhoth

	10-12-2003 00:58									#283
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Probably not too necessary to post this, but this was the response from asleepathewheel...

quote: Thank you, good to do business with Vox again.

	10-12-2003 07:01									#284
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New message from asleepathewheel along with my response. I think it's a pretty good deal. In terms of tech points Printing Press is 36 to Invention's 44, though obviously it's known to others. But Printing Press will be known to two of the civs immediately as well since Lego will know it. I say we go for it. What do you guys think?

quote: Greetings again Would you be willing to accept Invention for Printing Press? We would be willing to send the art of invention your way as soon as you want it, ie. this turn if you want. -aatw

My response...

quote: Let me discuss it with my teammates and we'll get back to you as soon as possible. Don't hold up the turn for us though if that's the case. We won't need the tech this turn. Regards, Rhoth

	10-12-2003 08:24									#285
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I concur Rhoth. I say we go though with the trade.

Sorry for not posting much lately with my Finals creeping up on me and what free time I do have, I'm usually involved with the various PBEM games that I'm currently in - though lately they have not been very busy to say the least.

	14-12-2003 13:51									#286
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PM to asleepathewheel with a formal tech trade agreement.

quote: Good news. We at Vox Controli are fully in favor of the deal we had discussed a few days ago. A formal agreement signed by myself is attached for your perusal and we request that if it is to your liking that one of your team members send it back signed. Pleasure doing business with you again. The nation of Vox Controli agrees to send the technology of printing press-unaccepted, upon completion of research around 500ad, to the nation of Gathering Storm. Upon receipt of printing press, Gathering Storm will send the technology of invention-accepted to Vox Controli and Vox Controli will accept the deal for completion of this technology deal. If Gathering Storm does wish to send invention to Vox Controli before Vox Controli completes research of printing press then Vox Controli will send printing press-accepted to Gathering Storm upon completion of research. If either team gains one of the involved techs through another means, the rest of the trade shall still go through. Signed by Rhothaerill on behalf of Vox Controli

	15-12-2003 07:35									#287
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Response from alseepathewheel.

quote: The nation of Vox Controli agrees to send the technology of printing press-unaccepted, upon completion of research around 500ad, to the nation of Gathering Storm. Upon receipt of printing press, Gathering Storm will send the technology of invention-accepted to Vox Controli and Vox Controli will accept the deal for completion of this technology deal. If Gathering Storm does wish to send invention to Vox Controli before Vox Controli completes research of printing press then Vox Controli will send printing press-accepted to Gathering Storm upon completion of research. If either team gains one of the involved techs through another means, the rest of the trade shall still go through. Signed by Rhothaerill on behalf of Vox Controli Signed by Asleepathewheel on behalf of Gathering Storm

	20-12-2003 13:53									#289
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Because GS sent us Invention early I PMed them a note thanking them.

quote: Greetings to asleepathewheel and the fine people of Gathering Storm. On behalf of Vox Controli we thank you for the early offer of Invention. We will finish Printing Press in 10 turns (500ad) whereupon we will send that tech to you accepted. Pleasure doing business with you. Regards, Rhoth

	20-12-2003 18:14									#290
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And again - just to note - Lego was very happy that we have made this deal. I think they got invention from GoW on a no-trade clause, and they would have had to give something up to gift it to us.

	15-01-2004 02:26									#291
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Short PM conversation with asleepathewheel:

quote: Hey Rhoth- We (GS) were wondering what the timetable on printing press was, according to your timetable, it should be completed in 3 or so turns. Do you have a more definite time on that yet? Thanks -aatw quote: Hi Sleepy, Printing Press will be finished in 500ad, so 4 turns from now (for us since your team has already played one of those turns). We will send it -accepted the same turn we finish it. Regards, Rhoth quote: Great, thats what we thought, thanks for the confirmation

	16-01-2004 03:26									#292
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PM from asleepathewheel. I wonder if they are trying to trade this to RP? We should probably mention at least 10 turns NTA

quote: PTWDG, GS-Vox Trade Rhoth- With regards to the printing press trade, we were wondering if you were placing any NDA's or similar requirements/requests on the tech. Slipped my mind up to this point, as invention hardly needs an NDA at this point. -aatw

	16-01-2004 03:47									#293
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And my response to Sleepy. As you can see I did not demand it as it wasn't part of the original deal, but hopefully asking for it will prod them to give it to us. I'm sure they know by now that we are trying to deal with RP so it won't hurt us to tell them we're trying to deal the tech out to "one other" team.

I also sent out a feeler for their thoughts on trading for democracy once we get it.

quote: Greetings asleepathewheel, The deal for Printing Press did not contain any no trade agreements or turn-conditional agreements (an oversight on my part ) so Vox Controli will not demand one now. However we would appreciate it if we could set up a 5 or 10 turn conditional agreement as we are currently attempting to work out a deal with another team. Speaking of deals, I'd like to take this opportunity to begin discussion about future dealing. Our teams had rough relations in the past, but I think we've done well in smoothing that out with recent discussions and trades. Vox Controli would like to see if Gathering Storm is open to a future trade involving the tech known as democracy? As soon as we finish research of printing press we will be moving on to democracy for a more enlightened government structure. If Gathering Storm is willing we can begin discussion regarding trades and timing. Pleasure doing business with you. Regards, Rhoth

	16-01-2004 07:14									#294
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Response from Sleepy.

quote: Rhoth- I'm glad, personally, that the relationship between our teams has thawed considerably. Frankly we are more than happy to discuss trades with you, we don't have much contact with the other civs, so its nice to be social and productive. With regards to the printing press issue, the ten turns are not a problem, we certainly understand and were just doublechecking to make sure that we avoided any incidents. No need to let a misunderstanding endanger the new era of peace. We feel that we have been taken advantage of in the past under similar circumstances (not by Vox of course), and have no desire to return the favor on anyone. As to a possible trade for Democracy, we would be more than willing to trade you something in exchange. What do you have in mind? We currently have a fur resource that we could trade you. And there are other possibilities as well. I think we are otherwise at tech parity, for now, but of course have research projects of our own that we are pursuing. Anyway, tell us what you have in mind, and we can see where we can meet.

	18-01-2004 03:19									#295
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PM sent to asleepathewheel regarding future dealings for democracy.

quote: Greetings to asleepathewheel and the many fine people of Gathering Storm. We at Vox Controli are also very glad that our mutual relations have repaired themselves greatly. The specters of the past have been exorcised and a new outlook for peace is shared by both our teams. Regarding a potential deal for democracy, Vox Controli is interested primarily in future technological progression or gold. At this time we have no real need for furs; despite the relatively frigid air of our ski slopes our people have developed thick skins to ward off the chill. We'd like to discuss our options further with you regarding this matter based on your preference for either trading gold or technology, and your future technology plans. We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth

	18-01-2004 04:01									#296
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Response from asleepathewheel

quote: Good to hear from you again, I will discuss these matters with my team. I'm not sure when I can get back to you, hopefully in the next couple of days or so. aatw

	01-02-2004 04:57									#297
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I received a PM from asleepathewheel about democracy. My response is also included.

quote: Greetings asleepathewheel. I certainly understand about RL issues. I've been busy too. Regarding democracy, we should finish research between 15-18 turns from now. We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth quote: asleepathewheel wrote on 31-01-2004 14:11: Rhothaerill- Sorry I haven't gotten back to you about this, have been busy in real life and it slipped my mind, my apologies. Are you still interested in a trade? I'm really not sure what we could offer you, as I am unsure what techs we have that you don't (haven't looked at the save in a while) as well as I'm not sure when you will have democracy finished, if you don't have it finished already, thus don't know what we will have to trade at that time, ie. what techs we have in 10 turns will be different than the techs we have in 30. (that was a long and painful sentence, but I think you understand what I'm getting at) So basically, if you give me a rough idea of when you expect to get demo, if you don't have it currently, then I can tell you roughly what we will have at that time to trade. Again, sorry for the delay -asleepathewheel

	09-02-2004 01:40									#298
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PM to asleepathewheel:

quote: Greetings to asleepathewheel and the many fine people of Gathering Storm. Just an FYI that we will have democracy research finished in 9 turns from 580ad. We might also be able to move that down to 8 turns as the time goes on. We look forward to hearing from you about a possible deal involving that technology. Regards, Rhoth

and Sleepy's almost immediate response:

quote: Sorry for not getting back to you, I will post this and try to get an answer or offer back to you soon.

	12-02-2004 01:54									#299
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Received from asleepathewheel. Any thoughts? Maybe we could wait a little while to receive physics from them, but I don't know if Lego had planned on giving it to us straight out.

quote: Rhothaerill- We would love to make a deal with you, but unfortunately it seems that every tech we get either through our own research or through trade, you gain through your own means either the same turn or shortly thereafter. In truth, the benefits of Democracy are relatively marginal, compared to a mandatory tech. Outlaying gold for it would carry a high opportunity cost, and Democracy is an expensive item. We could offer you Physics, but not until certain key parties have already researched it. We also have luxuries, as suggested before. Gathering Storm (on a personal note: Sorry if the above sounds harsh, I enjoy making deals with you, but you know how teams work. )

	12-02-2004 02:11									#300
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My response to Sleepy. I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to deal with them and wait for Physics rather than have Lego possibly give it to us for free. Everyone knows we are in bed with Lego, but they don't know to what extent. If we keep receiving all these free techs then we broadcast the extent to everyone.

quote: Hi Sleepy. Thanks for the response. Though it wasn't exactly what we had hoped for, I do understand. Let me take this back to my team and see what the others think about waiting for physics. I personally don't mind waiting, but I want to see what my team thinks. Perhaps we can work something out whereby we give you democracy now and you can give us physics and perhaps an option for a future luxury resource later on. Thanks, Rhoth