02-04-2003 07:58									#91
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Forgot to mention - they do not have a large military. Theseus and Arrian are restless.

	02-04-2003 07:59									#92
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

How would their research go up with them loosing cities?

With their current research rate, I would estimate that they are cranking the maximum rate that they can manage. If they started loosing cities, GS's research rate will feel the effect.

Can you explain your line of thought argha? If I'm taking your reasoning correctly, then if they (GS) only have one city left, their research would be fantastic. How can this be so?

	02-04-2003 08:02									#93
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by BetaHound Forgot to mention - they do not have a large military. Theseus and Arrian are restless.

I bet they are - reminds me of how I was feeling about 6 turns ago concerning our (then) military power.

	02-04-2003 08:04									#94
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Sorry argha, just closely reread your post - We're on the same sheet of music.

	02-04-2003 13:15									#95
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I haven't done anything with thi syet, sorry, been busy

once I finish this assignment I will have breathing room (will work on it all night tonight)

Jon Miller

	02-04-2003 20:02									#96
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Witt - reading your comment and then glancing at my post I thought I had made a mistake in what I meant to say.

	02-04-2003 22:46									#97
	Tired of ads?

This intel regarding the research rate goes along with what I was thinking about last night. It seemed like they were researching about 50% faster than us. Since they went Republic that would increase by another 40% or so giving them over twice the research rate we have (1.50 x 1.40 = 2.10). Now I wish we didn't give them Monotheism. Chivalry is a cheap tech. In about 20 turns they could produce knights. I believe the intel and their feeling of safety.

	03-04-2003 02:18									#98
	Tired of ads?

If we get to their soucre of Iron it wn't matter what they have researched. It would be a huge help if we could get GOW to use their horsemen to land behind their lines and cut their source. would be better than having them attack the warrior.

	03-04-2003 02:55									#99
	Put an end to popups!

Harry - if we didn't give them monotheism, they would have gotten it from someone we did sell it to. And they would then have a definite sense that something was up.

Macy - I agree regardiing the iron source. That is what I will discuss with Ghengis - and what I think we should be using our galley for as well.

	03-04-2003 03:17									#100
	Put an end to popups!

I was thinking of ways to get more money out of GS. What do you think of this? We ask for a trade - to finance our next campaign on Bob. Jon - you should probably handle this. But we can offer/ask for either:

1. 200 gold from them in exchange for the map of Bob, plus we repay 120 gold in 20 turns.

or

2. 160 gold for the map of Bob.

Tell them that we paid much more than that for it, and all we are trying to do is recoup some of our costs. But that it was critical for us to have it for our upcoming campaign. It is current as of 4 turns ago. Don't reveal our source.

Jon - you should also request if we can consult with some of their strategy experts - and if they agree - as Shiber hinted they would - I will send the letter in the next post.

(btw - we will need to clear with Lego that it is OK to sell the map. I suspect this will be OK.)

	03-04-2003 03:22									#101
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

My suggested letter which would go soon after Jon's request.

DeepO, Theseus, et al.

First - thank-you from Vox for taking the time to help us with advice on our upcoming Bob 2 mission, Operation MacArthur. ("People of Wittlich West, I will return.")

We learned a few things from our first excursion. One - don't under-estimate their reaction time. Two - take sufficient force to back your words. And three - claim the best defensive terrain quickly.

Here is our plan. The NE corner of Bob is rectangular in shape - if you can envison a line of NS running hills - 5 tiles - and EW running hills - 4 tiles - meeting to form an "L" - the one tile being common to both. To the NE of the "L" is plains, and on that plain is Wittlich West - now named Desolation Point by GoW.

Our intent is to land in force - 7 Immortals and 9 Spearmen. We will use two galleys and can have everyone across very quickly. We will bypass the city - and take up two positions on the hills, with a mixture of Immortals and Spearmen in each. The intent is to let the Bobians come to us - the spearmen, entrenched on a hill should be able to soak up the GoW horsemen attack, with Immortals taking out the remainder. On the NeuD front - the southern hills - we will have 4 of the Immortals. The last force to move against us from NeuD was 5 swordsmen. Our assessment is that as the swordsmen close for battle, the immortals cut them up - leaving the last enemy in the stack alive to avoid exposing an Immortal on the plain needlessly - unless of course, no one else is in sight. If NeuD does bring horsemen, spearmen would be able to fulfil the same 'soaking' role as with GoW.

Settlers build cities on these sites - with walls being the first priority. The existing city will likely then be taken by cultural conversion, or we can negotiate a sale depending how the diplomatic situation unfolds, or we take it by force.

We expect the initial NeuD and GoW reaction to be similar as last time. We don't know if they will be willing to commit to a longer term war of attrition if we can convince them of our limited goals of 4 or 5 cities on Bob, and prove that it will be costly to kick us out. We are also counting somewhat on tensions between RolePlay and their neighbours to hopefully prevent the kind of united front we met last time - and maybe make GoW and NeuD reconsider the prospects of a two-front war.

We will continue to commit reserves to Bob, and given the supremacy of defence over offence, we expect the beach-head will hold quite well.

Any thoughts from either a military or diplomatic angle would be appreciated, but we really would like input on the military planning side of things.

Thank-you in advance for your help. Guess that's what neighbours are for. And, wish us luck.

..... BetaHound

( )

	03-04-2003 06:53									#102
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Beta wrote: Harry - if we didn't give them monotheism, they would have gotten it from someone we did sell it to. And they would then have a definite sense that something was up.

True. What I should have said is that I wish they didn't have it.

quote: mj wrote: If we get to their soucre of Iron it wn't matter what they have researched. It would be a huge help if we could get GOW to use their horsemen to land behind their lines and cut their source. would be better than having them attack the warrior.

Without knowing where the iron is it would be hard for GoW to do anything about it. Even if we knew where it is any horsemen they land behind GS lines will be sitting ducks if there are any chariots around. A defense of 1 will not last and they can not move or pillage on the turn they land. Even if they manage to pillage the iron it will only take a few turns for GS to get a couple of workers to reconnect it. I was thinking more of the long term. If we take the city that has the iron GS could end up without iron for the rest of the war.

Beta, selling the map and asking GS strategy experts for help is a great idea.

	03-04-2003 07:00									#103
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Our assessment is that as the swordsmen close for battle, the immortals cut them up - leaving the last enemy in the stack alive to avoid exposing an Immortal on the plain needlessly - unless of course, no one else is in sight.

I am not sure I would give them this. We don't want to give them too much information about how we would attack. One thing I have been thinking about is along the same lines but with the addition of a catapult or two. Cut down all but one unit and then use the catapults against that unit so he is not healthy enough to do much damage attacking us.

	03-04-2003 07:52									#104
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by HarryH I am not sure I would give them this. We don't want to give them too much information about how we would attack. One thing I have been thinking about is along the same lines but with the addition of a catapult or two. Cut down all but one unit and then use the catapults against that unit so he is not healthy enough to do much damage attacking us.

Understood. Good point and great idea. Will modify.

	03-04-2003 09:10									#105
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree with Harry we should be as vague as possible with naming units esp. our more elite units and numbers, its prob. ok to say warriors who does not have warriors?

	05-04-2003 08:33									#106
	Put an end to popups!

Suggested letter to GS. Please comment asap. This should go very soon. Thanks.

Dear Zeit of Gathering Storm.

Greetings. Jon is busy with something called real-life right now, and our scientists aren't quite sure what that is. He has asked that I contact you regarding three items.

1. An Update:

We have been working hard on the diplomatic front, as many had suggested we should have done the last time, trying to reach a peaceful agreement with at least GoW, to allow us to settle a limited corner of Bob, and re-claim our city. We initially met with some success, but it may have come off the rails this evening after a lengthy discussion with GoW. It is not clear to us if they are getting pressured by NeuD on this - nor how solid the alliances are or are not between the Bobians. However, we now feel we will probably need to use force to back up our claim.

2. A Request:

I had asked Shiber earlier if members of GS would be willing to provide some tactical advice when we return to the continent. Short of lending us Theseus or Arrian or DeepO, we could at least explain the terrain and our battle plan, and the strategy forum could analyze it for us. Konquest02 is a recent addition to Vox Controli - so I'm sure they speak the same language.

3. An Offer

As a prepatory move to us going back to Bob - we obtained a number of turns back - at considerable expense - a complete map of Bob, with cities and roads. It is current to about 6 turns ago. And on the other hand, we also need cash to finance our return to Bob (we do not call it an invasion as no one owns the land as of yet).

So - we would like to offer the map of Bob in exchange for:

1. 200 gold, and we repay 120 gold in 24 turns.

or

2. 160 gold.

The first represents a lower price, and a loan to be repaid in full, without interest, in 24 turns. The second is a straight cash deal.

Can you please get back to me on items 2 and 3. As we are getting close to launching galleys - we would like to hear sooner than later if at all possible.

And by the way, like what you have done with the neighborhood. How are the beaches and bars at Monsoon?

Thank-you, and regards .... Beta.

Last edited by Beta on 05-04-2003 at 09:41

	05-04-2003 15:15									#107
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If they pay for the map of Bob, fine. Otherwise, find out if they would be interested in a real World Map of the world. Maybe they would be willing to agree to a World Map trade. This all has to be done quick as we only have a couple of turns before we take out their warrior. Tell them if we get the map of GS we can trade for a world map and send that back to them.

	05-04-2003 19:03									#108
	Increase the size of your Attachments

We can try - but I doubt GS will agree to trading their map. They have adamantly said no before on this.

And I don't want them wondering why we want it now. We will see what's down there soon enough.

	05-04-2003 19:28									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Above letter - the one offering the map deal, went this morning to zeit. The save is with GS and there is only this turn and then their next turn to get this deal done.

	05-04-2003 21:31									#110
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I like your letter Beta... It's quite ironic when you really know what's going on...!

	06-04-2003 18:44									#111
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Sent this after the move last night. If we are to do that map deal - it has to be today. I will take any offer GS put son the table - as long as it is cash up front - and this turn.

Our Spearman
Greetings zeit and nbarclay,

I should have given you earlier prior warning that a spearman is coming north by your observer on the mountain. Do not worry. He is on his way to North Estonia and then on to Bob. We have found that this is about all Dissidentville is good for. We have rushed a barracks and are now going to rush spearmen depending on the population.

Any response on our earlier letter? We are somewhat anxious for a response.

Thank-you, and regards .... Beta.

	06-04-2003 21:32									#112
	Got spare money?

And this to Sir Ralph now. I am going to bug the living daylights out of them until they respond. Jon - if you are checking in and can do anything else to finalize the deal for the map - please do so. 80 or 100 gold this turn or next - accepted - would be fine.

Greetings Sir Ralph.

I have approached both zeit and nbarclay on some important matters. I trust my first letter made it through to you. I sent a reminder last night to zeit - I could not send it to nathan as his mailbox is full. We have not heard anything back.

The message is attached. It also mentions the spearman heading north from Dissidentville. We are anxious to hear from you. Our operations are expected to start shortly.

If you would care to make a counetr-offer regarding the map - please do so. Gold up front is preferable as we will need to reinforce quickly the first wave heading to Bob.

Thank-you for your attention to this matter. And there may be some political fireworks shortly in the public forum. Your neutrality or even mild supprt for our efforts would be appreciated.

We also have our tactical plan and political assessment drawn up - so as soon as we get the word on your willingness to provide input - we will send it on its way. But time is drawing short for us. The turns are moving quickly these days.

Regards ... Beta.

	06-04-2003 21:51									#113
	Support Apolyton

Received from Sir Ralph. they have also played their turn. We have one more of their turns to get this deal done.

Re: Response?
Your 2 messages arrived and were posted in our thread to discuss. There has been not much activity over the weekend, but I am sure our diplomats will return soon and respond. I posted a reminder.

Don't send anything to zeit within the next 3 weeks, he's on a trip to the United States.

SR

	07-04-2003 00:07									#114
	Got spare money?

I'm sure there will be much more activity in a couple of turns...

	07-04-2003 00:20									#115
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I dont know if we already know it, these threads are too long to bother reading.

Togas in our chat today :

quote: once Feudalism comes (GS says @8 turns)

	07-04-2003 01:30									#116
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I agree with you Eli, but in a couple of turns (hopefully) we won't need this thread anymore

	07-04-2003 02:49									#117
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I took the liberty of loading the lastest save of the game and took a look around. I decided to "build an Embassy" with GS. What i found out is quite interesting:

Intel from their capital: "Eye of the Storm"

The capital is actually located 5 tiles directly south of where we can see their worker (southeast of Dissidentville).

1. The garrison is their capital is only ONE CHARIOT!!! A worker is due out in 1 turn. The current population of the city is 6.

2. They have one source of IRON and one source of HORSES in their strategic box.

3. Improvements in their capital are: Palace and Granary.

4. Luxuries: The capital shows 5 sources of FURS linked to their capital.

I do believe that GS is ripe for the picking and since their capital is actually close, maybe we should spearhead our main invasion force to the GS capital first... Thoughts?

I suggest everyone else load the last save and establish an embassy with GS and see for yourselves, plus this will confirm my findings and see if I missed anything concerning GS's capital.

	07-04-2003 02:55									#118
	Suffering from ads?

quote: I took the liberty of loading the lastest save of the game and took a look around. I decided to "build an Embassy" with GS. What i found out is quite interesting:

This is now binding.
We must build an embassy this turn, otherwise it will be cheating.

	07-04-2003 02:56									#119
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Eli quote: I took the liberty of loading the lastest save of the game and took a look around. I decided to "build an Embassy" with GS. What i found out is quite interesting: This is now binding. We must build an embassy this turn, otherwise it will be cheating.

I was just about to say the same thing...

	07-04-2003 03:00									#120
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Oops! Sorry. I think the gold to build it is worth the cost. After all, know your enemy.

I don't know what I was thinking at the time, but you are right - if we don't build an embassy, it would be against the rules. Damn!