30-04-2004 21:36									#181
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ah, wasn't sure how close the alliance btwn ND and Lego was. Guess I'm just paranoid And if you're right that Lego is the #1 power, and since ND seems to be at least #3, I don't see anyone attacking Lego without promising ND something wicked (like at least 1/2 of Legoland itself), since #1 #3 and #5 should have no problem beating the #2 #4 and #6 teams, especially on defense (where I presume there is still an advantage, as in the SP game) ...

cool, thanks for the explanations.

	30-04-2004 21:54									#182
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 ah, wasn't sure how close the alliance btwn ND and Lego was. Guess I'm just paranoid And if you're right that Lego is the #1 power, and since ND seems to be at least #3, I don't see anyone attacking Lego without promising ND something wicked (like at least 1/2 of Legoland itself), since #1 #3 and #5 should have no problem beating the #2 #4 and #6 teams, especially on defense (where I presume there is still an advantage, as in the SP game) ... cool, thanks for the explanations.

Well, I'm not personally sure how strong the Lego/ND alliance actually is as we only have Vondrack's word (he's the Lego leader). Alliances can change in an instant too as proven by the GS/RP alliance. Before that they weren't the best of friends. Then ND/GoW attacked RP and GS came to their aid.

About the only alliance we can truly count on is with Lego.

Also I'm not sure I'd put ND at #3. More like #2. I think that at the moment Gathering Storm has the better economy, but ND has more land and their economy is growing. GS also was soundly trounced in military matters in the Bob war recently so I'm not sure of the state of their military.

	30-04-2004 22:28									#183
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Hmm. Curious, if ND and Lego decided to take out GS and RP, would we get involved, would GoW get involved (on either side) likely, and if we got involved would we be allowed any cities (and would we want to since the distance would be crippling due to corruption)?

	30-04-2004 22:38									#184
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Hmm. Curious, if ND and Lego decided to take out GS and RP, would we get involved, would GoW get involved (on either side) likely, and if we got involved would we be allowed any cities (and would we want to since the distance would be crippling due to corruption)?

Good question. My guess is that we wouldn't be getting directly involved. We weren't involved at all in the great Bob war which eventually drew all five of the other teams into it. The extent of our involvement was a bit of spying for GoW which gave us wines.

We have no true military power, just defense and a few bombard units. Our military will be building up soon (naval and defensive units), but there is no way we'll ever compete with any of the bigger civs in terms of military power to attack others.

	30-04-2004 22:43									#185
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(Wondering if I should move this discussion to another thread since it's not about ND much anymore)

What about specialization? IE, if we specialize in a field -- be that Espionage (by going to Communism and training our "spy"), or naval power (by building nothing but defensive units and as many attack ships as we can), or air power (same idea). We agree to back up Lego in this area, and thus allow them to lower their focus in that area.

Thus giving us a little bit of leverage, and possibly a meaningful role in any (medium to long term) wars to come?

	30-04-2004 22:51									#186
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 (Wondering if I should move this discussion to another thread since it's not about ND much anymore) What about specialization? IE, if we specialize in a field -- be that Espionage (by going to Communism and training our "spy"), or naval power (by building nothing but defensive units and as many attack ships as we can), or air power (same idea). We agree to back up Lego in this area, and thus allow them to lower their focus in that area. Thus giving us a little bit of leverage, and possibly a meaningful role in any (medium to long term) wars to come?

Nah it's okay where it is unless Jon wants to move it to a new thread.

As to specialization that is what we will be doing. We're concentrating on defensive units, bombard units, and starting an attack-capable navy (currently ironclads). The idea is to leave attack-capable land units to Lego and if we are attacked then we will sign a ROP with Lego to allow them to move attack units around all our cities (that network is just about complete). Right now we're about to hit a major growth phase that will take many of our cities to essentially their maximum potential which will also help our production and armed forces.

A better navy will depend greatly on whether we have oil or if Lego has 2 oils (since they will trade one with us). There is a possibility we'll have an oil as we have desert that had no saltpeter, but we won't know for a little while longer.

	30-04-2004 23:00									#187
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ah wonderful. Good to know I'm on the same page as you all

	01-05-2004 00:23									#188
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quote: Originally posted by Rhothaerill Good question. My guess is that we wouldn't be getting directly involved. We weren't involved at all in the great Bob war which eventually drew all five of the other teams into it. The extent of our involvement was a bit of spying for GoW which gave us wines. We have no true military power, just defense and a few bombard units. Our military will be building up soon (naval and defensive units), but there is no way we'll ever compete with any of the bigger civs in terms of military power to attack others.

I don't actually beleive in using defensive units

I was never a great fan of them (for republic and democracy) and after seeing some posts on the subject in the strategy forums I am more sure than ever that defensive units are not very useful (maybe a couple of them per stack)

Jon Miller

	01-05-2004 01:55									#189
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ie no defensive units in your home cities?? Seems a little risky myself, unless you're that confident in your navy. Suppose it depends on the era, ie during the Cavalry-Musketman era i'd stick with Cavalry (6 versus max 4 of defense), while during the Spearman-Archer era I'm going with Spearmen (2 vs 2, with the 2 def winning generally) ...

If you mean on offensive raids, then I heartily agree, except if your defensive units can keep pace with offensive (IE mech infs maybe, or if you're travelling through mountains and jungle). Just too slow otherwise.

	01-05-2004 01:57									#190
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suppose you also might mean they cost too much to upkeep ... only thing I can say is that it takes too long to produce them when you need them, imho, again unless you have a handy navy that is guaranteed to give you a few turns' notice (in which case you probably have a very expensive navy replacing a somewhat less expensive army) ...

	19-05-2004 03:21									#191
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News from Darekill

quote: Hello Rhothaerill ! Since I'm in charge to do the turns for ND, I'd like to talk to you about possible trades. Here is what we can offer: Military Tradition. Horses and Saltpeter. Spices and Ivory. Are you interested in any of these techs or resources? This turn you should get 50 G (sum 650 of 1000) for Technology "Communism". Greetings Darekill Primeminister of ND

	19-05-2004 03:24									#192
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And my response.

quote: Greetings Darekill, It's a pleasure to meet the new prime minister. I have posted your note in our forum for discussion. At the moment we're not interested, but in the next 10-15 turns we may start asking for some of the 20-turn luxury options that we had banked during past technology trades. Thanks, Rhoth

	01-06-2004 01:41									#193
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Message to Darekill.

quote: Hi Darekill, Unfortunately we did not receive the 50 gold payment this turn (no diplomatic screen showed up from your team). Please send it with the 50 gold for next turn's payment. Thanks. Rhoth

	03-06-2004 00:25									#194
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Message from Darekill

quote: Hi Rhothaerill, Hello Rhothaerill, Sorry for the 50g we did not pay last turn, I must have missed it. Here are 100g this turn for compensation. When will we get Communism? Z. arranged that deal with you is it possible that you give it away now? We will continue to pay until we have given you the full price of course. Darekill Prime Minister of Neu Demogyptica P.S. I'm almost sure I send it this turn please don't tell me that I was stupid enough to make the same mistake twice.

	06-06-2004 00:04									#195
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did it go through?

I am always paranoid about some sort of sneak

Jon Miler

	07-06-2004 03:34									#196
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PM sent to Darekill

quote: Hi Darekill, the 100 gold for this past turn did indeed arrive. As I mentioned we have finished up communism and sent it to you. In roughly 7 turns we will likely be requesting one of our 20 turn luxury options. Thanks, Rhoth

	24-06-2004 06:00									#197
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We have five cities about to grow to size 7 so this was finally necessary. It's a turn early, but I don't want to take any chance of not having it in time to grow. Half our cities going into disarray would be bad.

quote: Greetings Darekill, The time has come that Vox Controli must finally request one of the 20-turn luxury options we've been stockpiling in our trading with Neu Demogyptica. If you can send us one of the luxuries this turn we would appreciate it. Thanks and pleasure doing business with you. Rhoth

	24-06-2004 21:14									#198
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From Darekill

quote: sure no problem. This turn it'll arrive acceptet.... Greetings Darekill

	29-07-2004 07:23									#199
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Message to Darekill

quote: Greetings Darekill, Vox Controli needs to ask for the second of the 20-turn luxury options we've been stockpiling in our trading with Neu Demogyptica. If you can send us one of the luxuries this turn we would appreciate it. Thanks and pleasure doing business with you. Rhoth

	31-07-2004 02:31									#200
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Response from Darekill

quote: Hello Rhothaerill, of course we will send the luxury. It's yours already. Greetings Dare

	09-10-2004 09:06									#201
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To ND

quote: Greetings to Neu Demogyptica. We trust all is well. I'm not sure who among you is the current leader of ND so I'm sending it to all of you. One of the 20 turn luxury options between our teams from the tech trading at the beginning of the industrial age ran out last turn and we'd like to have it continue. If you can, please send a new one our way next turn. Thanks. Rhoth

	11-11-2004 07:56									#202
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Sent to zerialienguru of ND

quote: Greetings to zerialienguru and Neu Demogyptica. We trust all is well. One of the 20 turn luxury options between our teams from the tech trading at the beginning of the industrial age is about to run out and we'd like to start a new one up before it runs out. If you can, please send a new one our way next turn. Thanks. Rhoth

	11-11-2004 08:02									#203
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We might be getting the "cold shoulder"....

	11-11-2004 08:40									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich We might be getting the "cold shoulder"....

No. They sent the last one along for us just as requested a month ago. Zeri just didn't send a return note at the time.

I just want to start this new one as one of the others is about to run out the turn after next. I don't want to have our cities (one at least) go into disorder because it runs out.

	11-11-2004 19:04									#205
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Oh ok....it kind of threw me there since both of your messages to ND were identical, so it looked like a late retrans...

	12-11-2004 05:05									#206
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From zeri

quote: Re: PTWDG Vox/ND luxuries Hi Rhothaerill, we will send you the lux next turn. Greetings zeri

	15-01-2005 21:01									#207
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From ND. I don't know who the guy is though,

quote: This is a message from bischop at Apolyton CS Forums ( http://apolyton.net/forums/index.php ). The Apolyton CS Forums owners cannot accept any responsibility for the contents of the email. To email bischop, you can use this online form: http://apolyton.net/forums/member.p...rm&userid=60803 OR, by email: mailtoopper1@gmx.de This is the message: hi leader of Vox i am a member of Nd and have the power to speak for ND. Darekill is not gone but the doesn`t want to do all diplomatic work more alone. we are sorry what has happen to lego but i think i see a way to prevent this ending for both of us and a better protection for each us both!! we have to cooperate in the future better ! what do think abou this ?? our first step in the cooperation we would offer you a technology deal 1 : 2 more details you will get if you have intrest in it !! we hope to get your reply as soon as possible

	15-01-2005 21:13									#208
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I just saw this from the same guy and my response.

Beta you may want to break down and get an instant messanger program

quote: Bischop I probably wont be able to do this till later today. And honestly I dont think Ive used ICQ is over a year and I dont even think its on my machines any longer. Do you have AIM or MSN? Or if you prefer send me a PM or email: conmcb25@bluemarble.net I would probably have to get anything cleared with my team first before I made any agreements. So maybe thats the best way to start to let us know whats on your mind. Our new leader, Beta, does not do any kind of instant messanger if I remember correctly. Thanks for your note and hopefully we can work something out quote: Nd has to talk to vox to please switch on your icq i have you already in my list my number is 54116976

My guess is either he is semi illiterate OR English is NOT his first language.

Does anyone know who this is? I have not seen him around..........


And if Im going to help out diplomatically Im going to need that primer on politics because as I said in the other thread (GS or GOW) I dont understand what the hell is going on "over there". It is a dam good sign though that everyone wants us for friendship.

This could get "interesting"

	16-01-2005 19:28									#209
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I hear you con. I do have MSN messenger.

I have been exchanging correspondence with bischop of ND. I answered that I would get back to them soon. Here it is:

quote: Re: Isdg 1 Nd has to talk to vox yes it's right i am a memeber of just since the year 1200A.D. or perhaps ome years before if you want to check my identity just ask zeri your turn leader or vondrack of lego or mz of gow the deal we have in mind ist that we give you 2 technologies in exchange for your free tech (ecologie) !! we would give you next turn accepted radio so you can choose in this turn eco as your free tech and send it accepted to us we sent in the turn we get eco computer to you accepted !! we think this is a very good deal for you and us but we have to make one condition !! The eco techology are both sides not allowed to trade with gs or rp for the next 12 turns !!! with both sides we meen Nd and vox !! and if you give the techs to lego it is no problem for us!we want that to give the techs to lego but say him no eco tade with rp or gs for 12 turns ok ??

quote: Beta wrote on 16-01-2005 02:54: Hello bischop. You are someone who is not familiar to us, but that is OK. We would like to talk with ND and see where the future may take us. What specifically did you have in mind? Beta of Vox.

quote: bischop wrote on 15-01-2005 20:39: hi leader of Vox i am a member of Nd and have the power to speak for ND. Darekill is not gone but the doesn`t want to do all diplomatic work more alone. we are sorry what has happen to lego but i think i see a way to prevent this ending for both of us and a better protection for each us both!! we have to cooperate in the future better ! what do think abou this ?? our first step in the cooperation we would offer you a technology deal 1 : 2 more details you will get if you have intrest in it !! we hope to get your reply as soon as possible

	17-01-2005 08:05									#210
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From and to bischop...

quote: Hi bischop. Here's our proposal. We have accepted another deal for radio, but would still like to do serious business with you. To that end - I have sent fission 'accepted'. We agree to you terms for ecology. We will not trade it. In place of radio, we would like to either establish a credit for a future tech, or tade for 40 turns of a luxury. Also - what are you researching now so that we do not dulicate research. It is either computers or rocketry, or maybe a tech that comes after ecology. I know we cannot match your research capability, but I'm sure we can still work something out - including the possibility of cost-sharing a tech. Looking forward to hearing from you. Sincerely ...Beta. ps - I have no problem understanding your English.

quote: bischop wrote on 16-01-2005 19:57: thanks for your fast replay and i hope my english is not too worse to read