20-06-2003 21:11									#121
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I think that's exactly what you should say Beta - basically that a peace plan with GS is being worked out with GS claiming ALL of Estonia. Let ND think that one over - if ND thought that Vox was a threat, just wait until the gathering storm breaks upon their shores!

	22-06-2003 11:42									#122
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Oh and my above post is what I think you should reply to ND's latest missive....unless someone else has a more "tactfull" way of stating it.

	27-06-2003 18:42									#123
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So - here was my response - I wanted to make the points Witt and I had raised, but not burn any bridges completely, and maybe even guilt them into giving us some cash.

Greetings Borc. It was good to hear from you, but somewhat of a surprise. In fact, we have delayed responding because truthfully, we don't know how to respond. .

Thank you for your offer of assistance but it is much too late. Financial aid, as some provided, or military aid as others provided would have been helpful. We had asked for horses and got no response. You knew we were researching engineering, and instead of buying it from us for a reasonable price as we asked and researching something else - you researched it yourself. That would have helped.

We do thank you for helping maintain the deception prior to the war, but after that, you provided no support either substantially or publicly to our efforts.

A peace deal has been reached with Gathering Storm. They are generous enough to let us dismantle our cities before we move out. But we will be gone from Estonia.

And as one member of Vox put it:

"I think that what we should say is basically that a peace plan with GS is being worked out with GS claiming ALL of Estonia. Let ND think that one over - if ND thought that Vox was a threat, just wait until the gathering storm breaks upon their shores! "

I am afraid he is right. We had a small window of opportunity, we took it, came close, and maybe could have done it with a bit more of a push from all concerned. As it is now - GS will be a force to contend with.

I appreciate that NeuD is in a precarious position on the continent, but Vox's effort had the united support of all. I cannot see where the risk to NeuD would have been. And I am not sure your neutral position will help you in the end, but that is just my opinion.

So - I apologize if my note sounds bitter. It is not intended to be, nor are we bitter. These are just the facts as we see them. Vox has entered a new stage of its existance, one with both challenges and opportunities. We would like to maintain positive relations with the people of NeuDemogyptica, but our past dealings does not provide much of a base to build on. Maybe this can change. Time will tell.

If you can think of ways to help our exodus from Estonia, it WOULD be welcome. You had offered spices, but with a quickly shrinkng population, happiness is not an issue at this time. In the future we may be able to consider such a trade. Cash assistance would be very helpful - as we will be in a period where we will be maintaining a large numer of workers and settlers and a small army but with only one or two cities until we can get settled again. If you would like to help in this regard - please let me know. Even minor contributions would be welcome, including gpt.

We wish you and the members of NeuD well.

Regards .... Beta.

	27-06-2003 19:53									#124
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Well written Beta.

	27-06-2003 21:57									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Wittlich Well written Beta.

Thanks Witt! Maybe I should stick to diplomacy and writing as I do much better at that than warfare.

	28-06-2003 00:25									#126
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Each person has their calling, its just that some people are not home when the call comes. Go with your strengths.

	24-10-2003 17:33									#127
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From NeuD. I had to look way back for the thread. I'm sure we can work something out. We need cash, or luxuries down the road.

News from ND
Hello Beta,
I'm here with some greetings from ND.
I know our relations have seen better days and the last time we wrote notes to each other they were filled with something I'd call bitterness. Something I can well understand since you just lost a war where you hoped that ND could help you more than it did.
Let me tell you once more, we really couldn't assist you more than we did. Not at that time where we had to gather all our resources for the forthcomming war with RP which was planned longe time before your war even started. I hope you can understand now.

But that is not the reason I took this quilt to write you.
The point is, we have knowledge that you research the same thing like we do, it is called Printing Press and it seem s to be a fine thing to have.

Since we are at war we can't efford many resources on Research and belive that you may be better off. Are you interested in a trade? And if you are what would be your conditions?

Greetings from
Darekill
(Ex-Governor Ex-Consul and Ex-Dictator of ND now beeing a simple Ambassador)

	24-10-2003 21:13									#128
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Wow, last time this thread was active was the day I joined Vox.

A trade sounds good to me. Cash is always nice, though I'm not sure we'll need luxuries for a while. We still have a luxury deal with GoW in effect once we activate it. Our cities aren't going to grow very large anyway. A tech deal might be a good option if we can swing it. We are looking for banking, if Lego can't get it to us, so that we can start on democracy right away once printing press is finished.

	26-10-2003 12:24									#129
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Has anyone followed up on this yet? I don't know Darekill at all or I would.

Banking would be my first preference, though I still think we should chat with Lego (see the Lego FA thread) before we make an absolute deal for it. If Lego gets us banking we won't need it from ND (assuming they are even researching it or have it already).

	29-10-2003 21:16									#130
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We need to find out how far along ND is with PP. If they are close they could complete it and gift it to us and we gift them a tech we research afterwards.

	30-10-2003 05:32									#131
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I will follow up with ND. I say cash - and in any form. Delayed payment is fine.

	02-11-2003 22:00									#132
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My response to Darekill of today. I am going to suggest 200 gold as 10 gpt, r 160 gold as 8 gpt plus a luxury for 20 turns to be provided at a later date. Everyone oK with this?


Darekill. My apologies. Yes - we can work out a deal for printing press. Cash is preferred. But it does not have to be immediate payment and the cost will be modest. We may also be able to consider a luxury as part payment - but that will have to be delayed for many turns until we have sufficient population for it to be of use. I will get back to you in a couple hours with some proposals.

Again - sorry - the slow pace of play sort of puts our team to sleep.

As to the past - well it is now the past. But you are indeed fighting GS on your shores and not theirs. I had to get that in.

....Beta.

quote: Darekill wrote on 02-11-2003 06:00: We are waiting..... patiently.... still. quote: Beta wrote on 24-10-2003 14:36: Greetings Darekill. It is good to hear from you again. Yes we are researching printing press, and I believe we can agree to a deal of some sort. We will get back to you shortly. ...Beta.

	02-11-2003 22:47									#133
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Sounds good to me Beta.

	03-11-2003 00:37									#134
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That sounds fine to me Beta.

	03-11-2003 07:45									#135
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To Darekill:

Darekill - again sorry about the delay.

We are happy to trade printing press to you. It will come with a no-trade clause, but a modest price. 200 gold as 10 gold per turn, or 160 gold as 8 gold per turn plus a luxury for 20 turns to commence at a date to be decide upon by Vox. I think you will see this as very reasonable.

We will be finished the technology of the printing press no later than 18 turns from now. The gold per turn payment will commence on the turn after delivery.

Looking forward to hearing from you. Regards ...Beta.

	10-11-2003 22:27									#136
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Received frim Darekill. What is not clear to me is that if we are finished in 18, and them in 22, why don't we reverse the deal. OK - so we asked too much. Let's change that.

Let's say 40 gold, plus we get a similar deal on whatever tech they decide to research. Plus we get the luxury when we need it for 20 turns. Thoughts?

His message:

quote: Printing Press I'm sorry but I think your offer is not the kind of deal that the Demogyptians would like to have. The point is it will take another 18 turns for you to complete the research. We are researching the same thin and will be ready in 22 turns. So the difference is only 4 turns. We have a single scientist research it and so we do not spend money for the research. the next thing is that we lack of other goals to research that would make this deal profitable. So maybe you could switch your research to another field which could be ready at about the same time 22 turns and we would give you PP and pay the difference for the tech that you'd research? If you want some luxurys I'm sure that we are willing to give it away for a symbolic price like 20 g for 20 turns. As soon as you can get it. I hope you see our point. You are right we fight GS at our shores but there was really no way for us to support you at the time you fought them.

	10-11-2003 22:28									#137
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Also - maybe I should contact Lego for a chat to see where things stand. They might have some recommendations regarding research.

	09-02-2004 01:48									#138
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Had to search for this thread again.

Since we're selling/giving democracy to half the world already (we should call ourselves the Purveyors of Democracy ) we should probably contact ND as well to see what they might be willing to pay.

Beta you know this team better than I do, could you possibly contact whomever the FAM for the team is? Thanks.

	09-02-2004 03:10									#139
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Will do. We should ensure that all our deals have a no-trade clause associated with them.

	27-02-2004 23:21									#140
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PM to Zayxus of ND. They have a lot of luxuries coming. We'll see if they want to deal (and yes I upped the gold requirement a bit since they snubbed our potential deal for printing press a while back. )

quote: Greetings to Zayxus and the many fine people of Neu Demogyptica. It has been a long while since our two nations have spoken, but we at Vox Controli are interested in opening the lines of communication and friendship again. Our nation will finish research of the technology of democracy within two turns (670ad). We have noticed that your nation does not have this technology and we wish to inquire if you would like to make a deal. We would be able to send you democracy in 670ad and in exchange we would request 200 gold and options on 3 20-turn luxury deals in the future. We do not need luxuries at this time, but we will in the future when we have a few more cities able to grow above size 6. At that time we would request that you send us a luxury resource for the agreed upon amount of turns. If this is acceptable to you and your team we can write up a formal deal. We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth

	28-02-2004 00:49									#141
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Response from Zayxus.

quote: Hello Rhoth! The Offer of Knowledge 'Democracy' of Vox Controli was put into the open council of Neu Demogyptica. I hope, I can tell you soon, how the decision is about it. Best regards Zayxus As diplomat of Neu Demogyptica.

	28-02-2004 01:12									#142
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BTW, just an estimate on those luxuries...each option, depending upon when we use them, will save us roughly 20 or so commerce per turn from not having to use the lux slider. If both the GS and ND deals go through as I wrote them then we will save roughly 2400 gold from them once we start growing past size 6, as well as getting 300 gold up front. Combine that with getting a tech from GoW and I think all in all we'll do pretty well from being the 'Purveyors of Democracy'

	28-02-2004 05:04									#143
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Although - I will be amazed if we do get a deal with ND. I believe they and GoW have been 'looking after each other' in tech dealing.

	28-02-2004 05:13									#144
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quote: Originally posted by Beta Although - I will be amazed if we do get a deal with ND. I believe they and GoW have been 'looking after each other' in tech dealing.

They wouldn't be able to get it from GoW for 20 turns. Part of GoW's own request for a 20 turn no trade clause.

	03-03-2004 04:52									#145
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Response from Zayxus. I'm writing the deal right now.

quote: Hello Rhoth! Please write up a formal deal, because there is agreement in the council of Neu Demogyptica. It would be fine, if we can deal it next possible turn. Best Regards Zayxus As Diplomat of Neu Demogyptica

	03-03-2004 05:11									#146
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Official Deal sent to Zayxus. I'll update the moves thread too.

quote: Official Tech Deal Acceptance. Please review and sign this at the bottom and send the PM back to me. Thanks and pleasure doing business with you. Rhoth The nation of Vox Controli agrees to send the technology of democracy -unaccepted to the nation of Neu Demogyptica in 670ad at the completion of Vox Controli’s research of that technology. In exchange Neu Demogyptica will add 200 gold and accept the deal whereupon Vox Controli will accept the final deal at the start of their next turn. In addition to the gold, Vox Controli will also retain options for three 20-turn luxury deals (i.e. Neu Demogyptica will gift a luxury to Vox Controli upon Vox Controli’s request in the future. This request can take the form of either one luxury for sixty consecutive turns or three luxuries for twenty turns apiece). There will be a 20 no-trade clause from the turn that Neu Demogyptica accepts the final deal (i.e. 570ad) in which Neu Demogyptica will not trade democracy to any other team. Signed by Rhothaerill on behalf of Vox Controli

	03-03-2004 06:39									#147
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Wow! Outstanding Rhoth - I really didn't think this deal would go through.

	04-03-2004 07:13									#148
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PM of acceptance from Zayxus

quote: Official Tech Deal Acceptance. Please review and sign this at the bottom and send the PM back to me. Thanks and pleasure doing business with you. Rhoth The nation of Vox Controli agrees to send the technology of democracy -unaccepted to the nation of Neu Demogyptica in 670ad at the completion of Vox Controli?s research of that technology. In exchange Neu Demogyptica will add 200 gold and accept the deal whereupon Vox Controli will accept the final deal at the start of their next turn. In addition to the gold, Vox Controli will also retain options for three 20-turn luxury deals (i.e. Neu Demogyptica will gift a luxury to Vox Controli upon Vox Controli?s request in the future. This request can take the form of either one luxury for sixty consecutive turns or three luxuries for twenty turns apiece). There will be a 20 no-trade clause from the turn that Neu Demogyptica accepts the final deal (i.e. 570ad) in which Neu Demogyptica will not trade democracy to any other team. Signed by Rhothaerill on behalf of Vox Controli Signed by Zayxus on behalf of Neu Demogyptica

	24-03-2004 22:52									#149
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PM sent to Zayxus

quote: Greetings to Zayxus and the many fine people of Neu Demogyptica. We have recently entered the industrial age and received Nationalism as our free technology. We would like to trade it with you if you are interested. We would like to hear from you what you would be willing to pay for the tech. We are currently interested in gold and more 20-turn luxury options similar to what we sold democracy for. If you are interested please contact me. We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth

	24-03-2004 23:57									#150
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Response from Zayxus. We'll have to figure out numbers we want from them. Any ideas? I'm thinking at least 3 luxury options and 300 or more gold.

quote: Hello Rhoth! Thank you very much for your offer. Yes, ND is interested in a deal in Nationalism in exchange for gold and 20 turn luxury. Please tell me an offer about the heap of gold. Best Regards Zayxus As Diplomat of Neu Demogyptica