27-03-2003 23:19									#91
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Correspondence with GF today.


RE: Re: Explanation needed

They have a map of all of Bob and any city on Bob is immediately visible to everyone who has the map.
quote:


OK. But my question is, how did they know about it??

And yes - that story line will work.

The story line which we will be spinning with GS, and which we will need to act out in the public forum, is that we did not go over in sufficient force originally, and had to extricate ourselves both diplomatically and militarily. We will be heading back to Bob with another settler and a much large army - and that will lead to gruesome conflict. We get pasted by the combined forces of NeuD and GoW and run back to Estonia with our tails between our legs. Another stupid move my Vox.

And - we have an alternate plan for you to help us. It only requires one galley, but 6 horsemen. We have a tile you can land on an form troops on that is not visible to GS. Four- or more horsemen gather there, while two go south on the galley looking for the iron source - or at least key roads to disconnect. We do the same thing down the east coast.

Your horseman force, plus our Immortal army moves south. There are roads you will be able to take advantage of to get there quicker. It may not have the same impact as 6 horsemen landing in the back field, but it will clearly split the defence further. Thoughts?

quote:

GhengisFarb wrote on 27-03-2003 09:54:
Tell them we bought it from you in order to resolve the issue (which we sort of did we bought it by agreeing to commit troops to take out GS), I have already told them we are flat strapped for cash, if they put 2 and 2 together to come up with 9 that's their problem not ours.
quote:

BetaHound wrote on 26-03-2003 21:09:
Received tonight from RP. Please explain. No RP units in sight.


"We noticed that GoW now owns your city. It wasn't razed. You guys agree to peace with them?"

	28-03-2003 01:22									#92
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I don't like GS knowing that we will have a large army

Jon Miller

	28-03-2003 21:20									#93
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they think opur army is for NeuD and GOW

	29-03-2003 00:26									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller I don't like GS knowing that we will have a large army Jon Miller

No way around this. It is available from the Military Advisor screen. I think Macy is right on - we need to keep the story line going that we are gearing up for a foray back to the continent. That is an extremely plausible rationale, and having lost the city makes it even more believable.

	31-03-2003 09:00									#95
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To Ghengis this evening:

Greetings Ghengis.

Monotheism has been forwarded to you as accepted. This will save a turn at your end. Please return the payment of 225 gold (got it right this time ) as accepted on your turn.

Great doing business with you.

We now have other 'business' to attend to. Please let me know when you would like to discuss further.

Regards... and peace... Beta.

	05-04-2003 07:41									#96
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OK - a quick run down of tonight's chat with GOW. Harry, Kon and myself from Vox. GF, P32, UnOrthO and Hot Enamel and MasterZen for part of it from GoW.

They are still on side.

One galley will be available in the short term (4 turns to Elipolis), a second in 10 turns or so, and eventually a 3rd and 4th.

For now - it looks like two galleys and 4 horsemen.

We are still going with a ruse - albeit scaled down. We will land on Vox (edit - er BoB) in 3 turns. Tonights chat was a diplomatic effort to reach agreement. It failed. We land against opposition. GoW declares war on us.

There was a very tense moment. We agreed trading maps was best - especially for GoW to know ehere they are going - and later for us to see the land they have revealed. But GoW did not think that it was fair trade and asked for Engineering when we are finished. I said engineering for waht. Thay said 30 gold when we are done. They know the length of time.

I asked for 80 now and 80 when we are done. They were ready to walk out of the alliance - we tried 50 now and 2o later. GF declared no trades. We had to soft talk them back to the table - and agreed to the original deal. Who knows what will happen in 30+ turns.

But I think they knew they had us over a barrel - and took advantage of it. And their assistance only amounts to 4 horsemen. And Ghengis wants to see if he can stay at peace long enough with GS to get feudalism from them. He will claim he is only exploring the coast.

We will see where this goes. Gow is still keen on the alliance. NeuD will stay quiet. They confirmed this. And then RolePlay is the next target.

So - we go forward with this - I still trust them - but we keep one eye open just in case.

Last edited by Beta on 05-04-2003 at 19:00

	05-04-2003 15:23									#97
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quote: We will land on Vox in 3 turns.

Looks like our sailors got turned around at sea.

I was surprised at how quick they were to walk away. No negotiating. I think GF knows we are taking the slow road to research and so engineering will not cost us much.

I trust them too, for now. We will need to be very careful once GS and RP are out of the picture.

Now its time for me to leave. See ya Monday.

	05-04-2003 21:47									#98
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Here is most of the transcript from yesterday's chat with GoW. It's 22 pages long, but you can see Gow's brutal change of attitude at pages 16-17...

http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Konquest02/chat.doc

--Kon--

	07-04-2003 02:26									#99
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I sent this to GoW today. It may help shake loose the GS deal.

Greetings from Vox!

It would be very helpful if you would declare war on us this turn, and then start a thread screaming at us for landing on the continent. Two galleys. Three spearman and an Immortal. More to come

Thanks ... Beta.

	07-04-2003 03:46									#100
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The embassy we're gonna build might fit in if GoW declares war next turn. It might even give GS the impression that we're their friends...

I can't wait for the screaming to begin!

--Kon--

	07-04-2003 04:08									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Konquest02 The embassy we're gonna build might fit in if GoW declares war next turn. It might even give GS the impression that we're their friends... I can't wait for the screaming to begin! --Kon--

I know. Me too. I suggested to Ghengis that he titles his thread "They're baaaaaaacccK!".

	07-04-2003 07:10									#103
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Recent correspondence with Ghengis:

Beta wrote:
Re: rationale
No can do. Our galley is ready for the first insertion down the east coast. Let's stick to the sabre rattling. Please start a thread declaring that we are back - and to rally the Bobians to kick us off. My intel tells me that GS is fully expecting us to try and land - so let's play up to it.

It maybe a case if we landed with a stack of 4 units, on a hill, you didn't want to attack with a sinngle horseman. So the same inability to declare war would still hold. The public forum will accomplish the same thing.

Also we will have more intel on their resources and location next turn.

Peace. Beta. (they're baaaaack...)
quote:

GhengisFarb wrote on 06-04-2003 21:54:
It wouldn't give me any option to declare war, I couldn't even cancel the peace treaty.

If you can land a simple warrior on the coast we can attack with a Horseman to start the war if it doesn't give us an option next turn.
quote:

BetaHound wrote on 06-04-2003 19:18:
OK - when I start bugging you too much - just scream.

Here is the rationale for declaring war and starting the sabre rattling now. GS only has one more turn before declare war on them. We have offered them a deal which is essentially a war loan with some collateral. But it could pull significant gold out of them just before the war.

Then if you stall on the feudalism trade a bit - you will probably get it for a better price when they really need the cash. We can guage when you show up on the scene.

But we need all the hoopla to start. We will delay significantly the playing of our turn to let all this develop - and hopefully so we can conclude our deal with GS. We need them to send us the gold on their next turn.

OK. Just so we are all clear. Thanks. And here's to victory! ... Beta.

	07-04-2003 08:24									#104
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OK. This is getting frustrating... and a bit suspicious. Something was to appear in the public forum from Ghengis. He has now gone off line. Maybe for the evening. Nothing has been posted. My rationale was clear. I will nudge him again in the morning.

If we still do not get anything posted, I will do a Public Announcement statint that we are landing on Bob and claiming rights to the land. Probably by noon est (1600gst) tomorrow.

We will not play our turn until later tomoorrow evening. We need time to get GS to take the bait.

I suspect Ghengis is trying to wrangle a way to get feudalism - and does not want to be implicated in any way in the early days with the invasion. If he was part of a scam report on the invasion of Bob, GS would certainly change the price on feudalism.

	07-04-2003 08:32									#105
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What the heck - sent tonight. I suspect our intel on the closeness of feudalism has him salivating.

My message:

You folks have a change of heart?

We were expecting a post in the public forum. If you are working an angle on feudalism - please let us know so at least we have some idea where you are coming from. This is leaving us a bit in the dark - and time is counting down.

We can do this without a declaration of war. And it will be more realistic - as we would not knowingly land and leave a unit defenceless to attack.

Please let me know what is up. Thank-you.

.... Beta.

	07-04-2003 17:30									#106
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Right now, this is what concerns me the most. I have some reserves on Gengis now. They grew during the last chat, when they were pretty brutal with trading.

I sincerely hope something will appear today in the public forum, or it will get really fishy. The main problem is that GoW know all of our plan to attack GS in details. They might want to take this opportunity to catch us off guard...

I'm afraid of a "real" war with GoW...
Let's hope something happens today...

--Kon--

	07-04-2003 18:10									#107
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GoW have nothing to look on our continent. They have plenty of space to expand to on Bob, so I wouldnt fear a war with them.

	07-04-2003 18:40									#108
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Yes - I agree Eli. I think Ghengis is just trying to make sure things work out to their adavantage. As was the case with the engineering deal in the chat. They are opportunistic - to say the least.

	08-04-2003 01:27									#109
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Panzer32 has asked and recived info on the location of the two GS lookout Warriors.

	08-04-2003 01:44									#110
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GS has three lookout warriors. The third is on the mountain S of Elipolis. We can not see him because of the fog of war.

	08-04-2003 01:47									#111
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ok

	08-04-2003 01:57									#112
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He was visible there - as Harry has described - last turn with the spearman moving north as part of the mis-information campaign.

	08-04-2003 02:00									#113
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I suspect Gs wants to keep their presence in this secret as long as possible. And I'm sure it has to do with feudalism. Tell them the warrior on the mountain will be gone on our turn after next. ie after their next turn. So I don't think they need to worry about him.

They will be visible once they hit Monsoon.

	08-04-2003 07:37									#114
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Sent to GhengisFarb of GoW.

Hello Ghengis.

Vox has made a public announcement of its intent to return to the continent. We worked to get the wording right. We only need to buy one turn here. And do some final convincing with GS.

We are not sure how we are suppose to read your silence on the last few messages sent. We have taken it to mean that you want to appear neutral so you can scam GS of feudalism. But we would appreciate a response if that is your plan. We will do what we can to help make it work.

Also - we told GS that we almost had you on-side with a deal for a continental settlement - but that it fell apart at the 11th hour.

I trust all is ready at your end. We kick off next turn.

Regards ... Beta.

	08-04-2003 22:02									#115
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And Ghengis' response. Ah - OK. I simply replied with a sorry, understood.

Re: Vox Announcement
What silence? I've replied to all your messages. Yes we are trying to get Feudalism from GS without giving them a horde of money to upgrade/rush with as it will put us one tech closer to our UU.

	09-04-2003 10:00									#116
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To GF tonight.

Greetings.

The plan is underway. War is declared. Immortals have landed on the east coast already.

We are maintaining the rhetoric over landing on the continent as well. GS may see through it - or they may think we have gone completely off our rocker. Anythinh which makes them think twice, or even under-react in the slightest we will grab.

Good luck with the west coast mission. To Victory!

.... Beta.

	09-04-2003 21:56									#117
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From and to donegeal:

Yes - it is a riot - isn't it. And I still think that GS has no clue as to the international situation. They may suspect GoW and Vox being in on this - but they are still smug in their superiority. Which is great.

btw - no one from our end talked. There are a lot of people 'in the know' now, and besides - they may have put 2 and 2 together. We are continuing to play the lunatic fringe role - anything to get them to under-react in the slightest.

I see your galley is on its way. GS territory is only two moves away for you. If you are trying to angle a way to get feudalism - play it carefully. Keep the rhetoric up. And don't do anything aggressive for a couple of turns. And please please please do not pay a whole lot for it. That is money we wil be fighting on the ground.

We established an embassy with GS the turn before. They only have one iron and one supply of horses - unless they have more and just have not connected it. As the two sources of iron we know about are cenrally located on the landmass - we figure their's may be as well. If we get that - they are really behind the 8-ball.

It is chariots which concern us now - so if you see the horses - please take it out.

Cheers! And to victory! I love this game.

...BetaHound - aka Beta the Bold, Immortal in General Jon's 1st Voxian Army.

quote: donegeal wrote on 09-04-2003 12:38: Man this is so much fun watching this unfold!!! I was susposed to be in bed hours ago but I can't sleep! No matter how this turns out, it has been MUCH more fun than any SPDG could ever be! BTW, apperently someone has droped the ball.... There are some people on GS who believe that Vox and GoW are in league together on this...

	11-04-2003 06:17									#118
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THIS NEEDS YOUR COMMENT AND INPUT. I have put a partial response back to him as you can see. I am not hapy with the 200 gold going to GS, but at least we have arranged so that should be the end of it. It will also greatly help GoW's surprise landing on GS territory.

All I have seen and heard from Ghengis is that he is being straight with us. Besides - at this point in time - I don't see wher we have a whole lot of choice.

Beta Responded:

Hmmm - some stuff to think about. We will do it quickly. One point to note - we have explicitly asked both RP and Lego not to buy feudalism from GS. They have agreed. We have also informed them that you are trying to reach a deal for it. Which you have. Congrats! Nicely done. I suspect GS was desperate.

Just a suggestion, but as part of the larger behind-the-scenes trade effort to hinder GS, you might want to be reasonable in your dealings with them, I fully acknowledge that GoW has always been a very reasonable nation to deal with when it comes to tech - but these are exceptional times. If you can reach a deal with RP, in advance of the 10 turn rule, but occurring after, it would save them from having to deal with GS. Ditto for Lego. We promise not to interfer in either of these deals, or try and sell feudalism to them. Anything you can do would be appreciated - but there is no obligation.

And - if I may ask in return - now that your funds are going to GS - and this will be a battle of money and economies - may we please ask that we have an opportunity to strike a deal with NeuD for engineering. We have reached a deal with RP, and one with Lego, and one with you. You can appreciate our need for the funds.

The deal on feudalism sounds more than fair - given the circumstances. We will get back to you shortly on the other items.

You saw General Jon's 1st Voxian Army. Colonel Harry is busy on the east coast, and our second army is forming now.

My sincerest regards to you and your soldiers.

...Beta aka Beta the Bold, Immortal, and friend of Eli, Eliminator of Grog-stuff.

quote: GhengisFarb wrote on 10-04-2003 20:35: Much negotiation with GS this time around. We are to give them 200 gold for Feudalism. Here's why we think this is a good idea. They were going to switch to 90% tax to fund rushes and upgrades, this deal requires them to research Feudalism at 100% science and give it to us in 3 turns. Then we are have no further obligations to them other than the one listed below. We have their permission to scout their coastal areas in return for maintaining a galley below Eliopolis and giving them troop reports on Vox for the next 5 turns. Never said they would be accurate troop reports, so tell us what you want us to send them and we will feed them false reports. GS is depending on GoW to be their Eyes and Ears. Feudalism has a 10 turn No Trade Agreement. After 10 turns we would like to offer it to your team for 75 gold. We plan on landing in a strategic postion in lower GS territory with our Horsemen in 3-5 turns. The deal requires us to not have any two of our galleys within 8 tiles of one another. What is your teams comments/opinion on this?

	11-04-2003 06:29									#119
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I'm thinking we have them report 4 Immortals, 6 spearmen, and 2 warriors on the road to Dissdentville. The when we send two more Immortals to the east coast - GS will be thinking - silly Voxians - 8 Immortals - and they put 4 on each coast. isn't that cute.

Again - anything that will get GS to under-react is a good thing. The number has to be high enough to be believable, yet low enough to feed their already rampant sense of over-confidence.

	11-04-2003 06:31									#120
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Well, I see that GS is scrambling for cash/military now.

Concerning your response Beta, I concur. What real choice do we have? I too don't like the 200 gold going to GS - but it will happen whether we like it or not. One consulation is: How much can they upgrade with 200 gold?