11-03-2003 23:05									#91
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DanS:

quote: I'm convinced that in most part, this war is about demographics.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but this sounds to me like #496 in the ever-growing list of ex post rationalizations for the decision.

Starchild:

quote: and the latest bit of news is that not a single British company has been consulted on contracts for rebuilding Iraq.

While I disagree with your claims about Kyoto and WTO, this is an excellent (and unfortunate) point. Why in hell are we putting ourselves in the position of being Ward Heeler for the entire damn world? And over Iraq? Which we could have largely ignored? We've flushed away huge amounts of political capital, managed to piss off absolutely everybody in sight, and the shooting hasn't even started yet.

	11-03-2003 23:28									#92
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Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but this sounds to me like #496 in the ever-growing list of ex post rationalizations for the decision.

I think you understand, but hear me out. Above all, the administration thinks that the status quo in the ME is toxic. You have a lot of unemployed and disenfranchised young men who turn to militant fundamentalism and end up in places like Afghanistan and Chechnya. That's who the 9/11 hijackers were, if you remember reading the personal stories in the Washington Post.

The US and UK have had Hussein under their thumbs for 12 years, which reinforces this toxic atmosphere. A huge generation of Iraqis is growing up in poverty due to this fact. Almost anything is better than this status quo.

	11-03-2003 23:33									#93
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None of the terrorists of 9-11 were Iraqi and Iraqis are not radical muslim.

	11-03-2003 23:34									#94
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also I want to point out all of this is not Bush's fault.

The senators (or was it congress?) blindly followed him and voted to use force if Iraq did not comply last fall.

I'm tired of people blaming everything on Bush. It is more appropiate to blame the entire U.S. goverment. Including the supreme court that elected him

Things were going fine with me until last night. Countries pulling out of the war on terrorism can't be a good thing.

	11-03-2003 23:36									#95
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Countries pulling out of the war on terrorism can't be a good thing.

Who said they would do that?

	11-03-2003 23:40									#96
	Clinton and his gang did far more Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The economy's in the tank...

Thanks to ol Bill.
Clinton fixed the deficeit...fixed it so only a billion dollar buisness could opperate in his hyper-taxed USA.
Small buisnesses are buried under immense tax burdens.
For example, i should have 150 people on my staff.
We can afford exactly 31.
Thanks Bill, and Tom D, let's keep blocking tax cuts, wouldn't want the econmoy to take an upswing, now would we?

quote: Two, Bush has almost completely destroyed America's relationship with the rest of the world.

Better look again, 41 countries currently support the US in it's stance vs Saddam.
In fact, both Denmark and Finland prasied George Bush in the UN today.
The axis of weasel isn't the whole world, even though Chriac thinks he is.

quote: From Kyoto to the World Court to the ABM treaty to the War against Iraq, Bush has thumbed his nose at the international community.

Nonsense.
Clinton entered into the first two knowing full well they would never pass the senate, Bush simply told the truth here.
the ABM treaty was with a nation that no longer exists, the USSR.
The "community", since it needs repeating, supports the USA, not "old europe".

quote: It's his way or the high way, there are no negotiations. No one likes being dicatated to, especially not one's allies.

They are free to do as they like, just as the USA is.
I wasn't aware that you had to lick your allies backside and shove money in thier pockets to get help vs murderers.
That is until now, of course.

quote: Three, civil rights: okay, we aren't a police state . . . yet. However, we have entered a period of true McCarthyism (unlike the PC crap righties were whining about only a few short years ago). People have had their businesses destroyed for the crime of being Muslim,

From the government?
No, so you can't blame Bush for that, try again.

quote: people have been jailed for months incomunicado, American citizens are being held illegally in military brigs against the rulings of the court, many of the rules put in place to protect us from our government in the '70s have been undone or eroded (and the government has wasted no time in abusing its new powers), and plans are in the works for even greater attacks on civil rights.

Care to provide examples Che?
This is the biggest red herring of all, the Patriot STILL requires you go to a judge, and due process.
But it is a nice rant Che.

quote: Bush has done something the Democrats weren't able to convince me of in over a decade, that Republican or Democrat does make a difference. When will our long national nightmare end?

When obstructionist idiots like Daschle actually do the job they are supposed to, instead of trying to undermind the Government to allow their party a shot at a general election.

It was fun Che, your thread is a nice reminder that left wing parinoia and spin doctoring are as rampent as when Slick Willy was running the show.

	12-03-2003 00:33									#97
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France really sucks, don't they?
A country full of unwashed hypocrites.

	12-03-2003 00:42									#98
	Re: Reagan did far more Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 Thanks to ol Bill. Clinton fixed the deficeit...fixed it so only a billion dollar buisness could opperate in his hyper-taxed USA. Small buisnesses are buried under immense tax burdens. For example, i should have 150 people on my staff. We can afford exactly 31. Thanks Bill, and Tom D, let's keep blocking tax cuts, wouldn't want the econmoy to take an upswing, now would we?

Reagan cut taxes under the assumption that that budget would be balanced in the future without tax increases. It was stupid and he was wrong. So Bush Sr. adn Clinton had to raise taxes otherwise the economy would have been swallowed up by the deficits. Reagans stupidity pales in comparison to Bush's however. Not only will the tax cuts not cause economic growth, but tax revenues are sure to decrease and and spending on health care and social security will surely increase significantly. I would give you at least 20 to 1 odds that any tax cut will one, not balance the budget, and two, taxes are going to be raised so high in the next ten years that it will make a democrat out of you.

	12-03-2003 01:08									#99
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Chris 62:

	12-03-2003 01:36									#100
	Re: Clinton and his gang did far more Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 They are free to do as they like, just as the USA is. I wasn't aware that you had to lick your allies backside and shove money in thier pockets to get help vs murderers.

You only have to that if you can't make a case that your
allies accept, so you resort to bribery. US made a case
against Afganistan and won support cause terrorism
was proven.

I support getting rid of Saddam, should have done it
10 years ago, or as soon as he kicked the inspectors
out. but why now? The terrorism casus belli is unproven
and if accepted, then the entire ME from Casablanca to
Teheran is equally guilty.

Maybe you just need an enemy, Where's "Mad Dog" Gadaffini when you need him?

	12-03-2003 01:36									#101
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More intelligent Chris62 ramblings...

	12-03-2003 01:55									#102
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Originally posted by DuncanK
"None of the terrorists of 9-11 were Iraqi"

So? Terrorists are terrorists. They don't get away simply because they weren't involved in 9/11.
I believe Bush said, "wherever they're found".

"and Iraqis are not radical muslim. "

But Hussein is. He's also a dead man walking.






And Sava, tsk, tsk, again.

	12-03-2003 01:56									#103
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Hussein isn't a radical Muslim...the radical Muslims hate him. He's a secular dictator.

	12-03-2003 01:59									#104
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Semantics. Call him a dead secular dictator walking, then.

Last edited by SlowwHand on 12-03-2003 at 03:16

	12-03-2003 02:01									#105
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It's not just a matter of semantics. In nations ruled by radical Islam, you won't see women going to college, holding jobs, driving cars, or walking by themselves with their faces uncovered. Women can do those things in Iraq.

They can't in Saudi Arabia, "our great ally." If this is about radical Islam, we are barking up the wrong tree.

	12-03-2003 02:05									#106
	Full PM-box? Change here!

True women gan be gassed with the children.
Certainly doesn't make Hussein any kind of terrorist.

Some people are so desperate to sneak away from an encounter with this guy, they twist the truth, and insist it's all big bad Bush's fault.
I think that's a sign of faulty wiring.

	12-03-2003 02:08									#107
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quote: Civil Rights: Bush didn't write the Patriot Act, that was Republicrat garbage.

He did. Or to be more precise, his justice department did. Congress may have fast-tracked it through, but Ashcroft drafted the piece of legislation.

	12-03-2003 02:16									#108
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Did I say Hussein was a nice guy? No. I have said many times, the man is a murderous rat bastard.

However, if you want to make this war about terrorism and radical Islam, it simply won't fly.

	12-03-2003 02:17									#109
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And answer me this, anyone.
I asked elsewhere, and you group of pacifist pansies wouldn't answer.

On the picture of Friday or Saturday's paper in Dallas, was a picture of Iraqi family getting their hole dug in the yard.
The man has on a gas mask.

1) If Hussein has no gas, why the mask?

2) If Hussein cares for all his people, and we assume now gas is dandy, why just the man having a mask?


Some of you need to get a clue.

	12-03-2003 02:26									#110
	Inflate your Upload Space

They could be scared that we would use gas, though I think we can get away with bullets... something he doesn't have enough of.

	12-03-2003 02:34									#111
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Um, yeah. I've read all the vast amounts of reports out of Bagdad that the US uses gas.

Hussein doesn't even say something that stupid, but here...

Leftists: There's no proof of weapons.
Answer: We know they have 'em, we know they hide 'em, and we have tape recordings and photographs. What more is needed? An Iraqi rocket in Martin Sheen's shorts?


Leftists: If we invade, Saddam Hussein might use those weapons of mass destruction against us.
Answer: I thought you said Iraq didn't have them!

And finally, again

Leftists: Polls show Americans are more concerned about the threat from al-Qaeda than from Iraq.
Answer: It's not a war against Al Qaeda. It's not a war against Iraq. It's a war against terrorism. Anywhere we find it. One nation at a time.

	12-03-2003 02:38									#112
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If it is a war against terrorism, why are we invading Iraq?

	12-03-2003 02:42									#113
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand And answer me this, anyone.

The US has gas, nerve at least in storage and mustard
is easy to make. I am sure Saddam is pumping out as
much internal fear mongering propaganda as the US is.

You don't need a "gas" attack to wear a gas mask, I used to wear one taking freight trains under the Detroit
river. If I was going to be on the recieving end of a
"conventional" bombing attack I'd want one too, so
I wouldn't be breathing in all the smoke, dirt and brick
dust the kabooms make.

	12-03-2003 02:42									#114
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This is a multiple reason action.
If you want to deny links to terrorists, fine.

	12-03-2003 02:50									#115
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand This is a multiple reason action. If you want to deny links to terrorists, fine.

I'd be really willing you to show me those links, because personnally neither Powell nor Blair succeeded to convince me that those links were so important that an invasion was needed

	12-03-2003 03:19									#116
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Have I said "Screw France", lately?

	12-03-2003 03:27									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Menlas I'd be really willing you to show me those links, because personnally neither Powell nor Blair succeeded to convince me that those links were so important that an invasion was needed

dude, that is reason one on a 10 page list. Too many people say one resaon or another isnt a good enough reason for war. Most people fail to grasp the whole picture. This is a very complex situation, with many reasons and all must be considered.

	12-03-2003 03:30									#118
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You're talking to a wall, Assman.

	12-03-2003 03:39									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Sava More intelligent Chris62 ramblings...

His points are substanciated and well justified, i wouldnt call them ramblings...

quote: You're talking to a wall, Assman.

Touchee

	12-03-2003 03:49									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Hussein isn't a radical Muslim...the radical Muslims hate him. He's a secular dictator.

He is a radical secular dictator. Radical Muslims hate him...Conservative Muslims hate him...Moderate Muslims hate him. He is a proven murderer. He has used WMD, he has invaded his neighbors, he supports terrorist (Remember the $25K pmts to families of those who blow themselves up killing civilians (is this not a substatiated link to terrorism!?!) ).

Everybody with half a brain hates him. Hmmmm...Maybe this explains Chirac's position.