20-03-2003 15:27									#91
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Is that what Jonah did when Bernat-Salles skinned him time after time in the last RWC?

	21-03-2003 04:07									#92
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Dan Herbert will miss most of the S12 season with his knee injury so he's not going to be a replacement for Mortlock. I think you're safe.

How wrong I was. Dan Herbert is lining up with the Reds against the Blues tonight. Talk about a miracle recovery. Totai Kefu is also back in the lineup, making for a much stronger Reds' lineup, but I still can't see them bothering the Blues in their current form.

	21-03-2003 04:36									#93
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News from the French team facing Italy at the Flaminio Stadium this week-end:

François Gelez (Sporting Union Agenais) is replaced by Frédéric Michalak (Stade Toulousain) after its great performance in France A against Scotland two weeks ago. Frédéric Michalak was associated with Jean-Baptiste Elisalde (Stade Toulousain) in France A and the two were credited for an impressive game.

Dimitri Yachvili (Biarritz Olympique) is given a second chance with the French team though many observers thought one week ago he could be replaced by Jean-Baptiste Elissalde.

Wait and see...

	21-03-2003 05:14									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Havak When the Aussies steal this world cup

Giving up already? How uncharacteristic for an English rugby fan.

	21-03-2003 09:30									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Giving up already? How uncharacteristic for an English rugby fan.

It's the very English chronic lack of self-esteem. Australians suffer exactly the same problem only it manifests in completely the opposite way.

	21-03-2003 10:51									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Is that what Jonah did when Bernat-Salles skinned him time after time in the last RWC?

A piece of side news - It seems Taine Randell has gotten himself into a bit of hot water with the SARFU due to his use of the word "disgrace" in reference to a recent 6 week ban imposed by that body on one of his fellow teammates.
Apparently the use of a lifted knee in warding off a tackle is now frowned upon in the RSA.
Most of those who responded seemed to agree with it but 80% were South African and the lone "Kiwi" went by the name of Franz Van der (something unpronouncable) so his "loyalties" might be slightly, ... suspect.
(There was one Brit who actually commented too but as his first statement went completely off on a tangent involving some other guy, rather dubiously named "Jonno", I wouldn't put too much stock in his opinion. )

Did anybody else actually see this?
It sounds like the sort of thing I could see happening a hundred times in a season with little or no consequence(s) whatsoever. Six weeks seems rather harsh especially in comparison to some of the recent "let-offs".

	21-03-2003 13:42									#97
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Blues 62 -d- Reds 20

The Blues steamroller rolls on. The Reds are in a sorry sorry state. Missed tackles galore, even more handling errors.

	21-03-2003 14:05									#98
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quote: Giving up already? How uncharacteristic for an English rugby fan.

Unless you have been there and seen them in action you cannot understand.

Sure both England and NZ are better sides than Australia as far as I am concerned – although NZ have this annoying tendency to lose to them unlike ourselves So are France in all probabilitiy despite losing to them the last two times. It doesn’t really matter. They will move heaven and earth to make sure they win RWC – fair means or foul it doesn’t really matter how they win as long as they win.

I just hope some ref has the guts to red card the first one of them to target man not ball – I have never forgotten and will never forgive the conduct of the Wallabies in the Melbourne Lions test. The sad thing is they can play and probably could have won by playing – probably. They chose to win by crippling the men they couldn’t handle – Hill and Wilkinson. In fact they targeted Wilko in exactly the same way they get wound up about other sides targeting Larkham – hypocrisy dare I suggest? Two years on I’m still angry about it – I tend to put it aside after the odd rant in order not to fall out with Finbar too much.

Btw Why was Eales never able to reign his men back in on the pitch when they started the biff – J has no problem so doing. Whilst I always rated Ealesy as the second best lock in world rugby as a captain I think he was lucky to helm such a talented and normally controlled side – he’d have struggled to take a team like England or Ireland as far as their skippers have – he couldn’t have reigned in the biff both are prone to.

That’s my tuppence and I’m sticking to it!

quote: It's the very English chronic lack of self-esteem. Australians suffer exactly the same problem only it manifests in completely the opposite way.

Yes but we call our manifestation of it ‘modesty’ and it’s something a gentleman exhibits when asked to comment on Johnny Foreigner’s chances.

As for the Randall incident well it’s a touch of the Healeys/Gregans/Mehrtens (delete as appropriate). Privately he can think what he likes but public criticism of another Union by an active player can’t be tolerated really can it? It’s up to the NZRFU to communicate the NZ position.

God forbid if players could say anything they liked the RFU and ARU (at least) would disappear under an avalanche of bile?

quote: Apparently the use of a lifted knee in warding off a tackle is now frowned upon in the RSA.

Um – it’s frowned upon everywhere isn’t it? It’s against the laws of the game and damn dangerous as well.

And yes Finbar I am getting in a mischievous mood - it's essential ready to deal with the Shamrocks lads next week.

	21-03-2003 15:10									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Havak That?s my tuppence and I?m sticking to it!

I've seen better bait on a mousetrap.

There, I've summed up your eighty paragraphs - that probably took you your entire morning teatime to construct - in seven words.

	21-03-2003 15:35									#100
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It took me my whole first coffee to lay that useless bait.

I should have learned by now if I want to wind you up the correct target to aim for is actually not Australia - but rather Italy?

And incidentally I don't rate the Italians chances very highly this weekend after the tongue lashing Laporte handed out after the last game. I expect France to demolish them.

Okay guys - so hands up those backing England for the Grand Slam??

*Havak raises a paw*

Guys? Anyone?

	21-03-2003 18:40									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Havak It took me my whole first coffee to lay that useless bait.

'Twas mouldy before it hit the mousetrap. Still, the practice will stand you in good stead.

quote: I should have learned by now if I want to wind you up the correct target to aim for is actually not Australia - but rather Italy?

No, no. Just be a lot less heavyhanded. Hit and run rather than broadside.

quote: And incidentally I don't rate the Italians chances very highly this weekend after the tongue lashing Laporte handed out after the last game. I expect France to demolish them.

Luckily, I love Italy for what it is rather than its rugby. OTOH, given that, on the whole, as a nation, they couldn't organise a root in a brothel, I suppose they do pretty well at a game so dependent upon organisation.

quote: Okay guys - so hands up those backing England for the Grand Slam?? *Havak raises a paw* Guys? Anyone?

Mmm. The sound of one hand clapping. How very Zen.

	21-03-2003 18:49									#102
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Stormers 39 -d- Waratahs 29

Mmmm. Bob Dwyer will be, as they say, spewing. The Waratahs led 21-0 after 15 minutes and proceeded to let the Stormers rip the game from them. It was an amazing effort by the Stormers - injury-riddled before the match, a whole new starting front row, lost their fullback early on, lost their 5/8 at half time, but they wanted to win. I haven't seen such a courageous effort in eons. They rolled the Waratahs with pure desperation.

And, I have to say, I find Corne Crige a total riddle. Playing for the Boks, he's often not much more than a thug. Skippering the Stormers, and I've seen him several times this season, there's no thuggery, just an incredible amount of very hard, disciplined, skilled work. If only he performed that way for the Boks, he'd be a legend.

	21-03-2003 19:49									#103
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quote: No, no. Just be a lot less heavyhanded. Hit and run rather than broadside.

Shorter salvos – gotcha.

quote: I suppose they do pretty well at a game so dependent upon organisation.

Two reasons for that. Kiwi’s. And various other tourists.

Witness with awe their metronomic veteran fly half. Argentinian.

Gasp at their improved ball retention. New Kiwi openside this season.

Put you head in your hands as the fullback is sent every which way by Josh Lewsey. Now he WAS Italian.

quote: Mmm. The sound of one hand clapping. How very Zen.

It’s a shame Vulture disappeared (and not just so I could ask him to defend the despocable Gloucester cheating in our recent encounter).

Did I mention that for me Sale look a more complete side? Their forwards are not quite as powerful but there is art and pace in their backs – Glaws have the pace but thus far lack the art.

And us? We just lack.

Krige? Industrious and skilled? Now that really did honk as you placed it towards the trap!

The guy should still be serving a ban after November.

	22-03-2003 05:37									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Shorter salvos ? gotcha.

Yes, but it's also the tone. Blatant is too obvious and easy to ignore. Bury the bait in something apparently appealing, just like the fisherman buries the hook in something apparently appealing. You're capable of it because you've done it before. Less is always better.

quote: Two reasons for that. Kiwi?s. And various other tourists. Witness with awe their metronomic veteran fly half. Argentinian. Gasp at their improved ball retention. New Kiwi openside this season. Put you head in your hands as the fullback is sent every which way by Josh Lewsey. Now he WAS Italian.

My point exactly. The natives couldn't organise to get wet in a downpour.

quote: Krige? Industrious and skilled? Now that really did honk as you placed it towards the trap! The guy should still be serving a ban after November.

There you go - it wasn't bait. I've said before, even in the context of his Bok performances, that he's skilled. He is. And I've gone on to bemoan that he ruins it with his thuggery. I wouldn't disagree with you in the slightest about his efforts last November. My point was that, in the S12 comp, there's no sign of the thuggery. His effort last night was outstanding. Inspirational, indeed. What I'd like to know is what brings about the dreadful transformation when he pulls on the Bok jersey? For that matter, Robbie Fleck - another Bok lunatic - plays an entirely different game in S12. Why?

	22-03-2003 09:15									#105
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Preview of Eastside vs. Wilson

Tomorrow were going to take on the team from Wilson High School. Both of us are second year teams, however we are direct opposities in abilities. We played Wilson at the pre-season tournament and absolutely demolished them. Hell, their coach had to explain to them what rucking was after our first try! Can you believe that? They only brought eight players to the tournament and didn't even know how to ruck. I guess that's what they get for being coached by a gal. Anyway, they're a small and not very talented team. They've made improvements since the tournament, but I imagine it will just be a slaughter in our favor.

We will be missing our flyhalf (he's on vacation), but I don't think it will make much of a difference as long as our pack plays well and provides support on time.

	22-03-2003 11:44									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Bearcat Preview of Eastside vs. Wilson I guess that's what they get for being coached by a gal.

Tsk-tsk.

quote: but I imagine it will just be a slaughter in our favor.

Sometimes I could swear you're a Havak DL.

quote: We will be missing our flyhalf (he's on vacation)

Now that's what I call dedication to the cause.

	22-03-2003 23:52									#107
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There’s only one Havak – though Bearcat shows great promise.

And I’m not seriously looking to bait you at the moment Finbar – that’s why the lack of subtlety currently.

What a great afternoons rugby!

Wales 24 – Ireland 25. A drop goal either way in injury time seeing the Irish through by the skin of their teeth. Having worked hard to control it at half time a strangely subdued Irish side nearly gave it away.

England 40 – Scotland 9. A nervous first half followed by a solid second half.

The Grand Slam decider is on. Dublin – stock up your Guiness for Havak’s boys are coming.

The referees were poor – Lander (English) was pedantic in the Celtic clash. Lewis (Ireland) was shockingly inconsistent in the England game. And he is another of these refs who issues endless warnings (to Scotland for permanent offside infringements) without doing anything about it. Still being an Irishman it was nice to here the constant “I see advantage” from him. And not a “through the gate” in sight.

On the plus side the way the lads played in the second half was very encouraging. Some of the offloading in the tackle to the strike runners was really enjoyable – a try for Lewsey, one for Cohen and a brace for Robinson.

So our defence was rock solid – a third game with no tries leaked – and Irelands was shocking in the second half.

Our pack was awesome – Ireland got shoved around by a feisty Welsh pack that couldn’t do that to England.

England’s strike runners looked scary – Ireland’s were anonymous in the face of the Welsh backs.

It all points to England being red hot favourites even in Dublin.

The only slight doubt? Well, It’s ENGLAND isn’t it? You can never be sure with them.

	23-03-2003 00:10									#108
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News from the Six Nations:

Wales 24 - Ireland 25

Ireland has gone out of a tricky situation thanks to a last penalty. I have not seen the game myself but it seems it was a good one.

England 40 - Scotland 9

The score does not reflect the resistance from the Scottish players who were only dominated 9-16 at the end of the first half. Though Scotland was playing well the English players' realism stroke as England scored almost each time the team entered the Scottish part of the field. The second half was another matter though, the English players started playing better Ben Cohen scored after Matt Dawson had legally hindered Redpath and prevented him from kicking. Two beautiful tries from Jason Robinson in the second part of the second half have then increased the score...

	23-03-2003 05:07									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Sure both England and NZ are better sides than Australia as far as I am concerned – although NZ have this annoying tendency to lose to them unlike ourselves So are France in all probabilitiy despite losing to them the last two times. It doesn’t really matter. They will move heaven and earth to make sure they win RWC – fair means or foul it doesn’t really matter how they win as long as they win.

For a second there I thought you were talking about SA
I wouldn't say I have seen nearly as much foul play from Australia as I have from South Africa over the last few years. Of course, I can never forgive them for RWC 95.

	23-03-2003 05:13									#110
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Blues 62 -d- Reds 20 The Blues steamroller rolls on. The Reds are in a sorry sorry state. Missed tackles galore, even more handling errors.

Yeah, the reds seemed to show some potential on the odd occasion, but every time an opportunity opened up for them they butchered it. Oh well, GO BLUES!!!

That and the Highlanders-Sharks game( ) were the two I got to see this weekend. I wouldn't have minded seeing the Stormers beat the Waratahs.

	23-03-2003 05:38									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Yeah, the reds seemed to show some potential on the odd occasion, but every time an opportunity opened up for them they butchered it.

Roughly half the Reds' team are Wallabies and there are others considered future Wallabies. This was the first match this season where they had a full-strength team, but they were no better - and, arguably, worse, given they were at full-strength - than in the earlier matches.

Andrew Slack - ex-Wallaby skipper - is now coaching them. The last couple of seasons, under Mark McBain, they were considered stolid under-achievers, but they made the semi-finals at least twice. It was always said that they never played to their potential - which is to say, they never expoloited their talent out wide. Andrew Slack came to power promising to fix that problem. Thus far, they've gone backwards from being "stolid under-achievers". It's hard to know where the problem lies - whether it's Andrew Slack, or a problem of culture.

quote: I wouldn't have minded seeing the Stormers beat the Waratahs.

The game should be archived as a classic example of a team - the Stormers - proving that no problem is insurmountable if you have the guts, determination and dedication. Equally, it's a classic example of a team - the Waratahs - losing an unloseable game. If anyone ever gets a chance to see the match, I highly recommend it.

	23-03-2003 06:03									#112
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Roughly half the Reds' team are Wallabies and there are others considered future Wallabies. This was the first match this season where they had a full-strength team, but they were no better - and, arguably, worse, given they were at full-strength - than in the earlier matches.

The Blues just seem more confident. It really is perplexing to see the Reds do so badly when their team is certainly not short on talent. I suppose they have been doing badly for so long now it has affected the team's morale.

quote: The game should be archived as a classic example of a team - the Stormers - proving that no problem is insurmountable if you have the guts, determination and dedication. Equally, it's a classic example of a team - the Waratahs - losing an unloseable game. If anyone ever gets a chance to see the match, I highly recommend it.

I would love to see it, but it's impossible. I'm stuck with what FSW chooses to air.

	23-03-2003 06:44									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Havak There?s only one Havak ? though Bearcat shows great promise.

Yes, but he's a fit, strapping, athletic, young flanker, albeit with a muddy jersey. Methinks he has myriad gallons of Bitter and truckloads of Pork Pies ahead of him before he reaches the Pantheon of Retired Tightheads.

quote: The referees were poor ? Lander (English) was pedantic

Just out of interest - how did this manifest? I recall, I think, you preferring to translate my definition of pedantic reffing as, in your view - in the context of fine NH refs, as against inadequate SH refs - applying the laws of rugby as they are writ.

*finbar wheels Havak's petard into place and ponders the physics of hoisting a retired tighthead*

	23-03-2003 09:09									#114
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Eastside vs Wilson Post-Game

We played in very wet and muddy conditions again today. As expected Wilson got the **** kicked out of them, provided they at least knew how to ruck this time. We scored a try in under five minutes after kick off, as we were awarded a five meter scrum and our eightman picked it and ran it in. I sat out of the first half, and watched us do a lot of beating. Wilson was completely dominated, they simply couldn't put a play together and every time they got a penalty they would kick for touch, every time! We scored again putting us up 10-0, I think it was run in by our flyhalf.

I came in at half and got several chances to run with the ball. We scored twice more, including one try by our tighthead that was held up. They also managed to run in one try at the very end, the only real dissapointment of the game, besides an injury to one of our centers. The final score was something like 22-5, I believe. We all ended the game very muddy, but ultimately happy. The Wilson coach complimented us a game well done, especially our backline.

	23-03-2003 18:05									#115
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Congratulations Bearcat, when do you start your international carreer with the Eagles?

	24-03-2003 03:29									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Congratulations Bearcat, when do you start your international carreer with the Eagles?

Congrats, indeed. I notice, in particular, that the mud theme continues. Careful, Bearcat, you might develop a psychological dependence on mud to the point where the sight of a dry ground will freak you out.

	24-03-2003 05:32									#117
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Tonga d Korea Republic 119-0, hence go through.
So end the hopes of the brightest star in the northern hemisphere.

Looking over some of the RWC odds being offered atm it almost looks worthwhile backing ... England??!! The AB's aren't worth it at just under 2:1. Australians at 2:1 aren't a good bet either but the Brits are rated 3rd at 7:2.
I'm almost tempted to back them but this thread, and its previous incarnations, have given me a pretty good idea as to the accuracy of my past guesses so I won't.

	24-03-2003 06:43									#118
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I'm almost tempted to back them but this thread, and its previous incarnations, have given me a pretty good idea as to the accuracy of my past guesses so I won't.

I would not know you Ravagon I would have thought you were just looking for a petty excuse for not backing England.

	24-03-2003 06:56									#119
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Moi???!!!

I am deeply wounded that you could think such a thing Tamerlin. Deeply wounded.

	24-03-2003 07:47									#120
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Tonga d Korea Republic 119-0, hence go through.

The ref, presumably, was North Korean.