25-04-2003 23:19									#121
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Here's my summary for ELCG#2, which I finally finished last weekend:


Monarchy: 1900BC
Republic: 325BC (discovered 750BC)
Democracy: 460AD (discovered 360AD)

Marco Polo: 900BC
Shakespeares: 300BC
Colossus: 50BC
Copernicus: 80AD
Newtons: 260AD
Darwins: 700AD
Hoover: 1040AD
SETI: 1220AD
Apollo: 1510AD

SSC sz 8: 175BC
SSC sz 12: 75BC
SSC sz 21: 120AD
Max SSC size: 24

Trade: 1150BC
Invention: 320AD (delayed: Celts got in 260!)
Railroad: 620AD
Automobile: 860AD
Nuc Power: 1000AD
Computers: 1200AD
Flight: 1220AD
Space Flight: 1380AD

Launch 15-6-3 1580AD
Arrival Date: 1596AD

and the launch date save:
http://apolyton.net/upload/files/Elephant/sh_a1580.sav

I got very lazy trying to speed up things after around 1000AD. I built Hoover expecting to put Factories in place between Flight and Apollo but forgot about it until it was too late. I built SETI to juice up my already pretty decent tech speed, but should have held the 12 freights for spaceship parts. I probably could have launched in the late 1400s had I done so. Rereading Solos ELGuide I found several paragraphs about late game playing that seemed like they were written just to me. I really should have put at least two more cities over by the Celts, even if it meant building a few more transports and diverting some settlers & engineers. Sigh.

	26-04-2003 00:02									#122
	Inflate your Upload Space

I should also mention that I tried the Twin Cities by putting in a comparison route from ULUNDI (the 4special SSC) and BAPEDI, the 4special to the north. Later I added another to the furthest city east, but that got messed up near the end by a poorly timed overseas delivery. You can see from the RR patterns the work on KeyRd/RR, and I rushed SH and AP right after their techs were discovered (dont think AP did anything for the route arrows, though...). BAP got knocked down a few citizens as I built them to join my 8th and 9th cities. I think it was a viable alternative in the mid to late game to overseas routes, but it took more work to get the RR routes in the right places.

	14-05-2003 23:22									#123
	Increase Your PM Length

I have continued my game and I passed BC years.

My game follows an entirely different aprroach than is usual: I have a huge economy, I plan about 30 cities. In 1AD there is 19 cities mostly of size 7-8, no SSC, no Libraries.
It looks it works. Unfortunately - I dislike to micromanage 30 cities.
Another demonstration that Civ2 settings are bad. Especially the black hat bug is a problem.

	14-05-2003 23:26									#124
	Support Apolyton

ELG #2, Medium Map Summary up to 20BC

Monarchy - 1650 BC
Republic - 325 BC

MPE - 800 BC
HG - 650 BC
Pyramids - 475 BC
Michelangelo 325 BC
Colossus - 300 BC (Chinese!)

Key civ - 800 BC
Trade - 925 BC

Status after BC years:

27 techs, 12 of them by diplomacy
19 cities, mostly size 7-8, Ngome has size 10 (future SSC)
9 Harbors, 1 aqueduct, no other improvements; Xinning to keep people content
production: 87 shields (Mfg. goods 87 Mtons), 230 beakers+gold (if no luxuries, i.e. no WLTxD)
4 Settlers are heading to the far east (continent #2) to prepare long-distance colonies suitable for Democracy trading.

Color scheme: techs discovered / techs traded , wonders, cities, caravans
4000	Shall I build a road on hut position? no, because 2nd trade in a city would go for science (in my opinion gold (transformed to shields) should be preffered over beakers in the beginning. But at some point between the beginning and Monarchy (or Republic) beakers start to be more important than gold)
3950	Zimbabwe founded (#1), starts Warrior, taxes 60%
3900	Ulundi founded (#2), starts Settler
3650	start Alphabet (10 beakers needed)
3150	Alphabet->Code of Laws (22 beakers) Warrior heading to rehome to Bapedi
3050	Bapedi founded (#3), starts Settler
2950	Hlobane founded (#4), starts Warrior
2550	Code of Laws->Writing (33b)
2400	Isandhlwana founded (#5) In the following stage I predicted disorder due to number of cities well enough (using the knowledge in Happiness quirk thread)
2300	Intombe founded (#6)
2150	Writing->Cer. Burial (48 b)
2100	plans: discoveries 48 beakers, 42 remainning for next tech: Monarchy needs cca 100 beakers, i.e. 10 turns; oedo 11 turns (1650) science 60%, also fish at Zimbabwe worked
1900	Mpondo founded (#7)
1850	Cer. Burial->Monarchy (60b)
1650	Monarchy->BronzeW (72b); goal is trade instant revolution: Monarchy taxes 70% (to get 63g against barbs; I must admit that up to this point my conduct was risky, because I was vulnerable enough against barbs)
1600	Ngome founded (#8) plans: trade after 16 turns now I started to explore to get contact with other civs
1550	taxes 40% (just enough to have 63 gold - bribe barb Archer)
1500	science 70%
1350	BronzeW->Currency (91b)
1250	Swazi founded (#9)
1100	Currency->Trade (112 beakers)
1050	Tugela founded (#10) Spanish contacted: got 100g tribute for peace No tech trading: the discovery of trade was coming and I was afraid I could get a bad tech. I considered MPE as a vital point
1000	Chinese start Pyramids
975	Spanish offer Map Making, refused
925	Trade->Map Making (126 beakers) taxes 70% (to help MPE) plans: MPE, HG, Michelangelo Ngome (11,51) will be the SSC (grassland around - to get scientists after size 20), so HG there (I diferentiate between SSC (max. size 36 - Grassland preferred) and 'Caravan trade cities' (CTC) - max. size 20 - Ocean preferred)
875	ERROR: Ngome shouldn't get to size 3 now, the martial law won't keep the 3rd citizen content after more cities will be built: HG is needed to maintain cities of size 3
850	Umtata founded (#11)
800	Zimbabwe builds Marco Polo Germans: got 150g tribute for peace Carthaginians: trade for Map Making, maps Chinese: got 200g tribute for peace Celts: trade for Pottery, map Sioux: got 100g tribute for peace, 5 techs given, only trade is kept (not to help AI to build wonders), no patience So MPE gave me 450 gold: a good deal... ERROR: Probably I shouldn't want maps so much and give so many techs: slave research will be slower. Especially to Sioux (KeyCiv): Probably I should bear up a higher tech cost now and let them to discover additional (off-path) techs first Key Civ analysis: Sioux have at least 2 starting techs plans: HG, Michelangelo, Republic, WLTxD to sizes 8 to settle continent #2 - to obtain tribute (this was an error - I never got a tribute from Celts and Carthaginians. It looks tributes works only a short time after first contact?) Found new cities!? Celebrate with 11 cities or wait for more? About 25 turns would be needed to grow new cities to size 3 (without Pyramids) Pyramids? Balancing: ('resource'=1 shield = 2 gold) Monotheism, Republic: 4 techs need to be produced (from 3 Caravans + science 30%): 150 (3 Caravans)+80 (2 Triremes) = 230 resources needed wonders: 200 (HG)+400 (Mike) = 600 res. needed cities: 1 Trireme, 3 dips: 130 res. needed current status: 250 res. in gold, 55 res. per turn, Decision: to wait and to build more cities Ligthouse not needed. 54,38 can be reached with a trireme I have to block Spanish
775	start Literacy (154b) Shipyard founded (#12, ##32) - to help block Spanish ERROR: the idea to use the city as shipyard (Bach + size 2 city) was silly. City was too far from main trade routes and also Bach+HG+Xinning combo allows to support ships from large cities Germans: maps
725	Celts start HG plan: Oedo 16 turns, Caravans must reach Gnome in 8 turns
700	Herodotus: most powerful: Zulu, Span, Celt, Carthag, Sioux, Chin, Germ Ibabango founded (#13,##35)
675	Spanish: tribute 75g (why only half of treasury?) Isipezi founded (#14, ##36) science cost dropped to 132 b: it means Sioux had 2 free techs in the beginning
650	Ngome builds Hanging Gardens; Celts switch to Pyramids
600	Literacy->Mysticism (180b) Amatikulu founded (#15, ##38) Zunguin founded (#16, ##39) Masonry from German, Horseback from Sioux
575	Naples founded (#17, ##40) Issus founded (#18, ##41) Cunaxa founded (#19, ##42) South continent is #1 !?? I wanted to settle it... (I don't rightclick, so I didn't know it before) Celts: trade for Mysticism, no tribute
550	started Polytheism (225b)
475	Zimbabwe builds Pyramids, Chinese switch to Collosus, Celts to Great Library Sioux: Mysticism given (hoping they swap it with Spanish for Seafaring) Chinese: no tribute
450	Sioux start Great Library
425	Barbs capture Tintagel (Celtic)
400	Zimbabwe dye(D 192) to Cardiff science 70%
375	Sioux get Mathematics (have 3 techs different from me, I will give them techs and will spend only one caravan for Republic next turn) Polytheism->Philosophy (240b) Ngome beads(D 176) to Cardiff Germans: Mysticism given Carth: Polytheism given Sioux: Trade and Polytheism given
350	Philosophy, Monotheism-->Republic (306b) spanish Warrior bribed for 31 - none unit Isandhlwana silk(D 206) to Carthage Sioux: Philo and Monotheism given=> tech cost 270 beakers, no patience German: Philo given, no tribute, no patience
325	Barbs at Issus Celts develop Seafaring This turn I wanted to get it from Carth and give it to Celts... Zimbabwe builds Michelangelo Republic -> Seafaring instant Revolution to Republic Carth: trade for Seafaring, peace Celt: trade for Construction, maps, peace Sioux: trade for WarriorC, maps, no patience Germans: trying to give them Seafaring, no success, no patience science cost 572 b many ERRORS: Naples needn't Harbor, Tugela switches unit production to improvement, Ibabanago will drop to size 2 due to new settler 16 of 19 cities at size 3, starting WLTxD, taxes 6.4.0 (I will keep science rate as low as possible up to Invention/Navigation. Also I don't care about Key Civ very much. I prefer Sioux have a low tech cost and so they can work as slaves. )
300	Chinese build Colossus (In first moment I was annoyed. But the Collosus would not be effective now, normally it should be built later than Isaac because it is less effective) barb Archer bribed at Isipezi for 31g German: trying to give them Seafaring, no success, no patience
275	Spanish: Construction+Republic given
250	Archer disbanded in Isispezi taxes 5.5.0
225	German: Construction given, hoping to give Seafaring next turn, no patience taxes 4.6.0
200	taxes 2.8.0 German: Seafaring given, no patience Spanish: Philo given, don't want to exchange techs Chinese: trade for Mathematics, maps Carth: trade for Feudalism tech cost 648b
175	Celts build GL, Sioux swap to Lighthouse ERROR: I should make Spanish kind and give them techs before the GL is built, now Celts will be out from making techs Bapedi copper(xD 256) to Cardiff, Dye bug disabled Isandlhwana dye(D 344) to Utica German: trade given 16 of total 19 cities size 5-8, so I can start Xinning, end of WLTxD, taxes 8.0.2
150	Sioux builds Lighthouse starting Theology(648b) Dye in Celt - waiting for Celt Republic
125	Theology->Astronomy (675b) Carth explorer bribed for 93g Hlobane dye(D 450) to Armagh
100	Swazi copper(D 304) to Utica starting WLTxD, taxes 4.6.0
75	Astronomy->University (702b) ERROR: bad timing when moving colonists Chinese: Republic given, no patience
50	Chinese: Trade given, no patience Celts: trade for Engineering, maps, no patience Carth: trade for Wheel, Eng given science cost 784 b Hlobane silk(D 522) to Malaca
25	Chinese: do not want Astronomy, Seafaring given, no patience Spanish: Wheel given

Attachment: b25-e.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

Last edited by SlowThinker on 16-06-2003 at 01:03

	15-05-2003 04:43									#125
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I didn't include in the log that I started to celebrate again in 100Bc. Therefore the attached game has non-zero luxuries. Normaly I use Xinning and set luxuries to zero.

	15-05-2003 18:55									#126
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Elephant,

You are getting the first ELG player award for building Hoover's, but I think the freights are more efficiently used in building spaceship parts later or for making trades now. I would think adding factories is more suitable for much longer games where the investment can pay off.

ST,

Your approach has a lot of merit, and Cliff has also done something similar with a great result. I agree that replays and partial replays are a very good way to learn which approach and strategy is optimal. I really like the sharp format of your log, but was a bit appalled by your ghastly color selections!

I like seeing how you and Elephant have experimented with new ideas to see how well they compare to the "standard" strategies. These two games were quite interesting to analyze and evaluate, as I am always on the hunt for a better way to play.

	15-05-2003 21:50									#127
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I hang my head in shame. The Master reproves; the disciple falls on his sword...

I was thinking of trying to get all the cities up to 30 shields, which allows freights in two turns and SS structurals in one (with a freight start). If I can stockpile freights in the endgame the spaceship should be a breeze. But if I waste them like this I deserve to take 10 turns to build my ship...

	25-05-2003 23:16									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I am in 340 AD.
I want to say I won't land before 360 AD.

	13-06-2003 23:56									#129
	Inflate your Upload Space

500 AD and still no landing... I must do something wrong...?? I see no spaceship around. My goal was to land before 500 AD...

Attachment: a500-e.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	14-06-2003 20:23									#130
	Support Apolyton

i don't think i've ever seen so much disorder in what i assume to be your main cities in a representative govt... 9, including 3 of your first 6... any reason for all that disorder - you don't get any science from those cities while in disorder, and is preventing 2 discoveries per turn

	15-06-2003 06:10									#131
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

SCG, disorder affects gold only, you get always full beaker output.
(I do 2 techs per turn.)

Last edited by SlowThinker on 15-06-2003 at 10:15

	15-06-2003 13:31									#132
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

ST,

that´s an excellent game you are playing! If trade will be going well your landing date should be around 700 which is way better than any other game played in ELCG 2!

Some remarks:
After my experiences on the large map I was allready considering a broader approach on medium maps, too. Your game shows that it´s worth trying. Obviously you use xinning in your helpers not caring for a little disorder in your cities. I have to take that into account in my next game. On the other hand I would have tried to avoid researching/trading horse riding, masonry or warrior code. You´ll never get the research bonus versus your key civ and may have to research something unwanted in the end as there is nothing to trade left. But may be your AI´s were just bad researchers. Did you consider Darwin´s instead of Magellans? On the research path I go for chivalry to tactics after automobile to get superhighways earlier.

Again, a great game you are playing there!

Zenon

	15-06-2003 16:27									#133
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Zenon On the other hand I would have tried to avoid researching/trading horse riding, masonry or warrior code. You´ll never get the research bonus versus your key civ and may have to research something unwanted in the end as there is nothing to trade left.

Masonry is for Pyramids, Warrior for Bach, Horseback for Michelangelo. All vital wonders. I had to reconcile myself with the fact that multiplier will be 26 all the game.

quote: You´ll never get the research bonus versus your key civ and may have to research something unwanted in the end as there is nothing to trade left.

I had to research only 1 filling tech in the game end. Fortunately Chinese discovered Communism in time, but if not I was prepared to Darwin and my ship would have to be 15-1-1-1-1-1 (21 years?) in place of 15-3-3-1-1-1 (15 years) in game.(I attach a saved file from Civ2Plan. Some techs are switched in comparison with real game due to tech trading.)
About Darwin: I tried not to give RR to AI (only to KeyCiv) and I wanted to build it as late as possible: 2 techs for 400 shields in place of 3900 beakers is a good deal .


Xinning: After I saw some Civ2 saves at Apolyton and CivFan (PBEM, ELG...) I was always surprised that people don't use Xinning with disorder. It is an extremely strong weapon. Only problem is to celebrate, but for example with Mike and Bach you can celebrate to size 12.
For example in my game I built Shakespeare in Ngome (SSC) when size was 16 but I shouldn't. I should build Colosseum and Temple in place of Shake, good enough for size 26 (I didn't go over this size in my game).

BTW I just landed: 655 AD.

The file attached is not a .sav file, but list of techs from my game for Civ2Plan.

	15-06-2003 19:09									#134
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

ELG #2, Medium Map Summary

Governments
Monarchy – 1650 BC
Republic – 325 BC
Democracy - 300 AD
Communism after landing

Wonders
MPE – 800 BC
HG – 650 BC
Pyramids - 475 BC
Michelangelo 325 BC
Colossus – 300 BC (Chinese!)
Bach - 40 AD
Copernicus, Magellan - 220 AD
Isaac - 320 AD
Shakespeare - 360 AD
Leonardo - 380 AD
SETI - 540 AD
Apollo - 620 AD

Key civ – 800 BC

SSC stats
8 - 200 BC
11 - 1 AD
12 - 120 AD (growing)
16 - 200 AD
21 - 500 AD (growing)
24 (max. size) - 560 AD

Techs
Trade – 925 BC
Invention - 220 AD
Railroad - 400 AD
Automobile - 500 AD
Computers - 540 AD
Nuclear Power, Flight - 560 AD
Space Flight - 620 AD

AC arrival 655 AD

Attachment: a620-e.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

Last edited by SlowThinker on 16-06-2003 at 00:06

	15-06-2003 19:13									#135
	Log AD years Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

This is a raw log, with many personal notes; I will adjust it and to add some comments later. So if you are patient wait for a better one...

1 AD
Celts start King Richard
Chinese: Constr given, maps, no patience
Amatikulu Wine to Carth (D 240)
end of WLTxD, taxes 2.0.8, Xinning
Celtic Chariot bribed for 108g (none)

20
University->Banking (702b)
Germans: swap for Banking, don't want Horseback but Ast and Eng
science cost 900
Intombe Dye Wine to Carmathen (D 488)
Issus Salt to Hlobane (D 128)

40
Medicine->Sanitation (930b)
Zimbabwe builds Bach
ERROR: Bach built too soon
Chinese: Astronomy given, no patience
Ngome Dye to Malaca (D 344)
Isipezi Gold to Ngome (D 306)
Zinguin Coal to Intombe (D 170)
ERROR: Ngome switches shield production, penalty

60
Sanitation->Chemistry (960b)
Colony2 founded (#20, ##48) (Numbers of cities from Celt to Sioux: 7,2,6,6,3,4)
Celt: I ignore hollow threats
Cunaxa Silk to Utica (D 540)
Zimbabwe Silver to Utica (D 360)

80
Chemistry->TOfGravity (960b)
Colony1 founded (#21, ##49)
Carth: I ignore hollow threats
taxes 4.6.0, 3rd era of WLTxD

100
Zimbabwe builds food Caravan for Colonies
Isandhlwana Gems to Malaca (D 564)
Swazi Dye to Issus (D 168)
Amatikulu gold(D) to Naples (210)
Capua founded (#22, ##50)

120
Intombe builds food Caravan for Colonies
TOfGravity->IronW
Celts: trade for IronW
Spanish: gifts, trade for BridgeB, maps
Chinese: Banking given, don't want BridgeB, no patience
tech cost: 1152b
Bapedi Silk to Cardif 768
Sioux: 2 techs given, don't want BridgeB, tech multiplier 30 (no problem up to navigation)
Turin founded (#23, ##51)
Ulundi Cloth(D) to Carmathen (680)
Isandhlwana wool(D) to Malaca (392) when???
Ulu????

140
Economy->Chivalry (1147)
Carth: 1 tech given
Chinese: 1 tech given
Tugela dye(D) to Kells (584)
Isandhlwana wool(D) to Malaca (392)
Ulundi wine(D) to Ibabanago (164)
Chinese: 1 tech + BridgeB given
Sioux: 2 techs + BridgeB given

160
Chivalry->Navigation (1140)
Carth: Chivalry given
Chinese: 1 tech + HorsebackR given
Sioux: seafaring given
Iss beads (D 416) to Canton
Mpo beads (D 688) to Carmathen
ColonyHelper1 founded (#24, ##52)

180
Carth swap 2 techs
Navigation->Physics
Sioux: every tech given, tech cost 1014
Crete founded (#25, ##53)
Verona founded (#26, ##54)
Bapedi wine (D 275) to Utica
Isi gems (D 336) to Canton
taxes 0.6.4 (Navigation has been acquired)

200
Physics->Invention (1040; I give each tech to Sioux immediately after every turn so that i get the beaker multiplier back to 26)
Zunguin beads (D 380) to Kells
end of WLTxD; taxes 2.0.8; science from cities 766b (before micromanagement that cares for beakers usually lost in the city finishing the tech)

220
Invention->Magnetism (1066)
Zimbabwe builds Magellan, Ngome (SSC) builds Copernicus
Carth: Physics+Invention(prereq. to Steam Engine) given, Banking+1 tech given
Celts: 1 tech given, maps
tech given
Hlobane Hides (D 260) to Cork
ERROR: Swazi+Issus swap from improvement to unit
ERROR: Ngome Settler should be rehoned sooner

240
Chinese start King Richard
Magnetism->Gunpowder (1092)
Mpondo salt (D 292) to Armagh
units partially rushbought to Pikemens (before Gunpowder)

260
Sioux start Leonardo
Gunpowder->Mettalurgy (1118)
Ngome builds University (přidat i Library a další improvements)
Bapedi gems (D 306) to Malaca
Germans: 1 tech given, they don't want Gunpowder (to help their defense)
Explorer disbanded in Shipyard
Barb leader captured by a Trireme at Celt, 150g

280
Celts start Leonardo
Mettalurgy->Democracy (1144)
Naples copper (D 212) to Little Bighorn
ColonyHelper2 founded (#27, ##56)
not enough of gold: to build caravan in Tugela now or to build a Settler in Colony?

300
Sioux start Shakespeare
Democracy->Explosives (1170), science 100%
instant revolution to Democracy
Sioux: tech given as usual, maps
Chinese: Gun, Navigation, Demo, Phy, Inv, Mono, Mett
Zunguin dye (D 336) to Carthage
Cunaxa dye (D 288) to Utica
Zunguin silver (D 515) to Cardiff

320
Celts start Isaac
Explosives, Electricity
Ngome builds Isaac Newton
Celts abandon Isaac
Chinese: Wheel given
Mpondo copper (D 388) to Carmathen
Issus cloth (D 305) to Canton

340
Refrigeration->Conscription (1248)
Intombe food to Colony2
Shipyard food to Crete
(ERROR: opposite caravan - Crete food to Shipyard not necessary, should be coal)
(Numbers of cities from Celt to Sioux: 8,2,6,6,3,5)
Isipezi copper (D 380) to Beijing
Aqueducts and 1 marketplace sold
University in Issus, Tugela, Mpondo rushed (needed for 2 techs next turn)


Initial plan:
Sewer systems in cities of size 16, to help new cities (Colony 1, 2, Col.Helper 1, 2, Turin, Crete, Capua, Verona) to grow to size 3 if needed and to build Harbors there, to build 3 more cities fast so that I have 30 cities and so new cities of size 3 have 1st citizen very unhappy and can celebrate more easily, then celebrate about 10 turns.
This was planned because in my previous guess I thought I won't be able to fill the beaker box from trade and so to produce 2 techs per turn as early as now. I thought I will need a stronger economy.
After I found out that I can produce 2 tech per turn now, I decided to celebrate 3 turns only (between RR and Corporation - because I can't produce 2 techs per turn for that period anyway).
But finally I decided not to celebrate at all . So my last 5 turns were completely stupid: new cities, food caravans for them, Marketplace in SSC, caravans from small cities that will never grow are heading to small foreign cities, Refrigeration will not be necessary...

ERROR: Sewer systems construction switched back to (food) Caravans
ERROR: caravan from colonies shouldn't go to German but should go back to home cities to continent #1; one (Silver) is taken back
ERROR: Harbors not needed

how to manage 2 techs per turn? Now 27*48=1323

then 9 techs to Automobile(SuperHighways); 6 turns;
3 times 1 tech per turn, 3 times 2 per turn
needed more: 9*27= -243;
grow: max. 5*foodcarav = 5*18 = +90
total -153 (8-9 universities)

1st version with Flight:
then 5 to Computers +Flight (64th):
every tech: -18*4=-72
grow: +60 superhighways
total -12

then 11 +1 (traded) to Fussion

2nd version with delayed Flight:
???
6 turns to computers
1 turn to flight

(SteamE 49th now, easy; Fussion Power 76th tech
Computers 520, Fussion 620 (with Darwin) )

360
Chinese start Statue of Liberty
Conscription, Leadership
Ngome builds Shakespeare
diplomacy - an odd number of techs are needed (2nd, 4th tech from trade don't save any turn); I can't hope for 3 techs, so any tech is good. I am very fast in research and I cannot hope for an onpath tech - but I will need any off-path tech before Superconductor.
Carth: wants Gunpowder, but I want to give them ToGravity, Monotheism, Conscription
Umtata wool (D 172) to Carthage
ERROR: I forgot to give 2 techs to Sioux, about 100 beakers lost

380
Spanish build Great Wall
Celts build King Richard
Celts start Adam Smith
Steam Engine
Zimbabwe builds Leonardo
Sioux swap to SoL (good, they won't go to Darwin)
Barbs near Naples and Turin (I perceived now that I played the last part bad - too risky. Barbs are not slow Archers, but fast units, things changed extremely. I should have a better defense than several dips only.)
Lisbon founded (#29)
Helper1 dye (D 215) to Issus
Colony2 dye (D 140) to Ulundi
Naples beads (D 212) to Cordoba
Naples dye (D 256) to Madrid
Colony1 cloth (D 230) to Bapedi
Shipyard food to Ngome, Crete food to Ngome: We love the food caravans days start in Ngome (every next turn one food caravan is delivered to Ngome)

400
RR, Tactics
Carthaginian (1 weapon, I am their Keyciv): 1 tech, SteamE, Consc, Tactics given, maps
German: 1 tech given, I wanted to help their defense, but they don't want war techs...
2 barb Crusaders bribed for a standard price

420
Industrialization
Barb leader captured at Naples, 150g
Carthaginian research Amphibious Warfare, that's good
time is a bigger problem than gold: cities can rushbuild only every 4th turn because of Xinning: I don't save gold even there is min. 5 shield production in a city (and so 5 shields will be lost with a rushbuy)


440
Celts finish Atomic Theory (I didn't hope for that with their GL)
Celts start SoL
Corporation
Zimbabwe food to Ngome
Colony1 silver (D 275) to Mpondo
Helper1 copper (D 196) to Ngome
Helper2 wine (D 257) to Cunaxa
Colony2 salt (D 64) to Berlin - needed to almost fill the box
Isandlhwana gems (D 278) to Helper1
Turin copper (D 148) to Seville
Chinese: gifts: Industr , 1 tech, Conscription (researched)
Spanish: gifts: Navig (researched), 1 tech, Conscription
barb archer bribed at Celt

460
Refining, Steel
Colony1 beads (D 96) to Tsingtao
Ngome silver (D 272) to Colony1
Cunaxa spice (D 326) to Colony2
Cunaxa beads (D 416) to Cardiff
Turin bea (xD 52) to Isandlhwana (unblocked Gems)
Isipezi dye (D 304) to Shangai
barb Crusader bribed at Carth
Chinese res. Communism, good
Spanish: gifts: Tactics, 3 techs, Chivalry (researched)
Isipezi switches from University to Freight

480
Celts builds SoL
Chinese,Sioux switch to Women's Suffrage
Combustion, MTools (I can delay Automobile for 1 turn - I can fill the food box without SuperHighways in Ngome and I want Leonardo works 1 more turn)
Spanish research Communism, good
Ulundi Wine (D 192) to Colony2
Colony1 food to Colony2
Zunguin gold (D 714) to Rhymney
Isipezi beads (D 428) to Beijing
Lisbon coal (D 155) to Ulundi
Tintagel (barbarian) bribed for 208g - 2 archers inside
Isipezi salt (xD 47) to Bapedi (unblocked)

500
Celts start Sun Tzu, abandoned Adam Smith
Electronics, Automobile
barb Musketeers bribed at Tintagel
Cunaxa spice (D 368) to Colony2
Mpondo wool (D 200) to Helper1
Bapedi wine (D 280) to Utica
Ngome dye (D 372) to Cork
Swazi beads (D 288) to Caerphilly

520
Celts build Sun Tzu
Mass production, Miniaturization
Colony1 Dye (D 148) to Amatikulu
Helper2 Dye (D 124) to Intombe
Umtata silver (D 375) to Carmathen
Helper2 Oil (D 374) to Cunaxa
Tugela beads (D 388) to Cork
Colony2 gems (D 168) to Salamanca
ERROR: Zimb switches caravan to Library

Celts: trade for Atomic theory, maps (ERROR: I should give them Industrialization for oil)
Cunaxa, Isipezi (both in disorder) rushbuys Caravan throught Palace (this trick was used several times after this point)
I am better prepared for barbs than 8 turns before: many barb combat units were bribed last 8 turns, some dips were built, the continent was partially connected by RRs.

540
no dangerous barbs
Computers, Issus builds SETI, Nuclear Fission
with SETI cities generate about 2500 beakers per turn
Engineer joins Colony1, 2Engs join Colony2, Eng joins Helper2
Colony2 oil (D 1050) to Ngome
Umtata gems (D 188) to Helper1
We love the food caravans days start in Ngome
Cunaxa rushbuys superhighways
We love the food caravans days ends in Ngome (last caravan this turn)
Celts: Industrialization given

560
Nuclear Power, Flight
Cunaxa spice (D 568) to Colony2
Helper1 copper (D 135) to Issus
Helper1 coal (D 285) to Cunaxa
Hlo gold (D 288) to Rhymney
Helper1 rushbuys superhighways
Tugela coal (D 207) to Carthage (for gold only, beaker box have been filled before; ERROR: I should do these over-deliveries before Flight)
Umtata Univ sold

580
Radio, Advanced Flight
Swazi hides (D 254) to Caernaforn
Verona silk (D 228) to Cork
Eng joins Helper2
Ngome silver (D 322) to Helper2
Isipezi oil (D 322) to Ngome
Cunaxa spice (D 368) to Colony1
Sewer sold in Ngo (should be done 2 turns ago); universities in Issus,Tugela, Mpondo; library in Cunaxa
ERROR: I forgot to switch from caravans to palace in Mpondo, Bapedi, Amatikulu

600
Chinese discover Communism: I won't have to build Darwin next turn
Laser, Rocketry
pollution near Ngome
Helper1 coal (D 387) to Cunaxa
Colony1 silver (D 208) to Zunguin
Zunguin oil (D 299) to Helper2
Issus gold (D 336) to Shangai
Naples copper (D 214) to Canton
2 caravans return from Celt, they won't be needed
many units disbanded
aqued sold in Ngo; harbor sold in Cun,Ama,Isi,Umt,Mpo; library sold in Swa,Iba,Nap

620
Space Flight, Plastics
Zimbabwe builds Apollo
Cunaxa spice (D 568) to Colony2
Hlobane gems (D 252) to Helper1
Ibabanago dye (D 171) to Cardiff
Hlobane silver (D 227) to Cardiff
Isandhlwana gems (D 312) to Armagh
Bapedi dye (D 254) to Carmathen
Isipezi dye (D 190) to Nanking
Issus cloth (D 257) to Helper1
Chinese: trade for Communism, maps
superhighways sold in Cun,Help1,Col2; all remaining harbors sold
all spaceship parts prepared

640
Superconductor, Fusion
Launch a 15-3-3-1-1-1 ship (15.7 years)

655
Landing

	15-06-2003 19:36									#136
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Welcome to Europe, ST
...and congratulations for your brilliant and very early landing
Could you please explain how "Xinning with disorder" works?

	16-06-2003 00:01									#137
	Inflate your Upload Space

I know EU is a bureaucratic monster, but nothing can be worse than our czech whorehouse full of jobbery.

about Xinning and disorder: I will switch to What is Xinning?

Last edited by SlowThinker on 16-06-2003 at 02:06

	16-06-2003 01:05									#138
	Suffering from ads?

I changed colors of the BC log. Is it good now?

	16-06-2003 02:42									#139
	Full PM-box? Change here!

ST,

1) If you put 25 whorehouses together, you get many more pretty women to look at in one glance.

2) I use Xinning (size 5ing) quite often. I even posted about the technique before knowing that Xin Yu had already published it. But I must have missed your 'Xinning with disorder'. Thank you for the thread.

	16-06-2003 03:01									#140
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by La Fayette But I must have missed your 'Xinning with disorder'.

I posted the post today. I only wanted to head a debate about Xinning there.
Disorder in Civ2 cities is good , but disorder in Civ2 threads is bad.