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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:26
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Hello everyone.
In the spirit of keeping all discussion under the same roof, I have started this thread about anything and everything related to our recent discovery of the Gamecatcher Alliance. I urge all members to post relevant discussion here from now on.
- MZ
Last edited by Master Zen on 18-03-2003 at 21:55
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:26
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Having read the latest reports from this discovery, I am inclined to mention some thoughts about this situation.
First of all, there is debate going on whether or not CDG effectively lied to us. Their lie points at two things: the fact that they mentioned that there is nothing south of them but ocean, and that they had as yet not received contact with any other civilization but ours.
There is ample proof that these in fact may be lies. Geography seems to indicate that the land mass of our continent is larger than expected, and that it branches in many directions. Terrain immediately east of the CDG city is ocean but turns to land SE which is where the borders of GA are. Considering the extent of our own exploration at this point, It is highly unlikely that we have discovered a civ which is geographically so much closer to their own.
Now on the question of contact. It is most likely that this GA city is their second city. Whether they got it from popping a hut or actually built it themselves is one thing, the fact is that it is unlikely that GA did not do some scouting on their own in that area, and they would surely have found CDG if CDG hadn't found them first. CDG's attitude and trade path before we were negotiating the deal was also suspicious (the IW after Alphabet for example).
Anyways, I believe that we should take a more cautious approach when dealing with CDG in the future since it is apparent we cannot trust them completely. Part of this may be due to the fact that they are rather amateurish, and perhaps do not understand the value of truth in a Demo Game as we do. I feel it is our job to "enlighten" them in this respect, making it abundantly clear that such an attitude will not be tolerated in the future.
As for GA, we will surely enter into negotiations soon. We have the chance to catch CDG in a lie, as well as GA through skillful negotiation. We also have the chance to rework our treaties to suit our needs, this must be done skillfully and carefully.
In the meantime, we would appreciate comment from you all.
-MZ
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I knew there was an explanation of Alphabet then IW! CDG is lying to us; a bold face lie in fact. Where's Fried-Pstilon?
Ok, maybe better not to jump to too many conclusions; GA has Alphabet already (they start with it), so CDG wasn't able to make the same deal with GA as they are trying to do with us. Either that or they really haven't contacted GA yet; but I have a hard time buying that!
Maybe CDG has a possible trade still on the bargaining table with GA: Alphabet and CB for Pottery and IW. And now since we have Alphabet they might want to get Alphabet from us instead and use BW to get it. That would free up IW for them and they could trade IW to GA for something else besides Alphabet.
I think we contact GA before we tarde anything to CDG and let them know our thoughts, not all, but some of them on how we percieve CDG is acting towards trading Tech's.
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quote:
Originally posted by WhiteBandit
Regardless of whether CDG are lying or not, why don't we go ahead and trade for Bronze Working so we at least have the ability to make our mercs if neccesary? This would technically put us "8 turns up" in research and we could use that time to start researching something else. |
Please use this thread for discussing matters only pertaining to CDG: CDG Proposals
Our forums are quite messy (I'm to blame also  ), so lets try to keep things together. Thanks
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Master Zen
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of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:26
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Since it is inevitable that we will have contact with GCA sometime in the near future, I think it is time to set up some rough guidlines for our negotiation posture with them.
First of all, what are we going to negotiate?
Well, it is imperative that we try and obtain certain vital bits of information amongst these:
- What is their terrain like?
- Do they have contact with other civs? If so, when did they obtain that contact?
- Do they have any technology deals or any other type of agreements with their contacts?
- Would they be willing to make a tech deal with us?
Now with respect to a deal:
- We must find out if they have a deal with CDG which is likely but not certain. Either way, we must see if there is a way to negotiate any techs not in that deal or start one on our own. Ideally we may be able to fashon a tech deal between our three civilizations, this would serve to sooth relations with CDG a bit.
- Hopefully they won't be as paranoid as CDG and insist on border agreements and such, and will have no inconvenience that we scout around their territory.
Now here's the psycological aspect about this:
Due to geography it is obvious that CDG represents the greatest threat to our own security. Our relationship with GCA, if done correctly, will serve to strenghen our position, as CDG will be encroached. That is why it is very important that:
1) We act in the most cordial and diplomatic manner as possible with GCA, give the impression that we are really interested in a long and lasting friendship. That means no hardball...yet. Hopefully if we don't play hardball, they won't either (and hopefully they are more rational and professional in their dealings with us)
2) Give them the impression that a strong Poly-GCA relationship is the most important deal we can make in the medium/short-term. We don't want TOO strong a pact though since it would simply reinforce CDG's suspicion and would prompt them to seek a war before they are likely wiped out in the future.
3) Hint at the fact that CDG has not been entirely truthful towards us, and that we do not expect the same treatment from GCA. That honesty will be regarded above anything else among our team.
I think they will probaly go for this, since they undrestand that we are too far from each other to be an effective threat, let's make them feel that Poly can be trusted, and that we can be a better friend than CDG.
In the meantime, let's stay low, let's not go for too ambitious a two-way pact until we are in a much stronger position to respond to retaliation by CDG.
In short: light deal, strong relationship, backstab CDG later.
-MZ
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18-03-2003 21:42
Thus the lying and non-telling of a possible ally...
Togas would have loved to delivered that message, exceppt he qouldn't have been laughing in the end; well maybe an evil laugh! 
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