02-04-2003 06:10									#151
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Obi:

quote: Nice way of dealing with the point at hand. Ignore the point, and it may go away, will it not?

?

Did you miss my response? Reposted from 28-03-2003 18:14 :

[i]If the arab community in the US openly supported Al-Quida, what do you think would happen then? [/quote]

If you don't understand my response, you can ask for clarification. If you don't think I understood yours, you should clarify. Complaining about "ignoring your point" doesn't add anything constructive.

quote: Muslims are being persecuted because some of the French are making the exact same argument that I did, that essentially all Muslims are the same, that if one Muslim is a terrorist they all are.

Since when does the french muslim community say they hate the french?

True, there is racism in France, but not because of any kind of "official position" by the muslim community.

quote: How is this position any different from yours, that essentially, all Jews oppress and hate the Muslims, and are thereby deserving of oppression themselves?

No group is "deserving of oppression". I'm just asking how you can expect french muslim to NOT hate french jews when the french jewry very publically support the oppression of muslims in palestine.

quote: Our world is horrible, so we need to deal with the world by adopting the tactics of the world.

No. The world is located in REALITY, so we need to deal with world by adopting REALISTIC tactics.

quote: Tough. I say the only way to get out of the cycle of violence between Jews and Muslims is for both sides to see the other as a person, equally valuable. That's why these kids, and they are kids, be they in France or in Israel are getting hurt, because some adults no longer see them as persons.

And that is exactly what I'm saying. How do you expect the french muslims to see the french jewry as persons when they support the oppression of their people?

"Well, son, they might hate us and try to kill us, but they are really nice people." Not going to happen...

	02-04-2003 10:38									#152
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu No. The world is located in REALITY, so we need to deal with world by adopting REALISTIC tactics.

No, realistic tactics just cause history to repeat itself.

That's why the ME has been stuck in a rut for 50 years.

	02-04-2003 12:05									#153
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I suppose it depends on what you define as being realistic.

	02-04-2003 17:08									#154
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Yeah, except Latin America, South Asia, and Africa..besides those places, the Arab world is definitely the worst. Oh, and the "systematic oppresion of minorities in Iran", where is the evidence? Lats i heard 13 Jews were tired as spies, out of the largest Jewish community in the ME outside of Irsael, and several of them were freed recently. So fi you want to claim "systematic oppresion" you will have to give me some proof.

Gepap- there is discrimination against various religious and ethnic minorities in Iran, as documented by Human Rights Watch, amongst others. Azeris are the most sizeable ethnic minority, and some are Sunni Islam adherents. They are discriminated against on linguistic, religious and educational grounds. The religious minority that has experienced the most persistent harassment (official/unofficial) would seem to be the Ba'hai faith.

http://www.hrw.org/press97/oct/iranrm.htm

	02-04-2003 17:26									#155
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Update on antisemitism in France :

From L'Humanité

quote: 313 C'est le nombre de violences racistes, contre les personnes et les biens, enregistrées par le ministère de l'Intérieur en 2002, relève le rapport annuel de la Commission nationale consultative des droits de l'homme (CNCDH), qui précise qu'il s'agit de chiffres a minima. 60 % de ces violences ont visé la communauté juive, soit six fois plus qu'en 2001, s'inquiète le rapport. Il faut également y ajouter 992 menaces consistant en propos ou gestes menaçants, graffitis ou intimidations, dont 731 sont de nature antisémite. Pour l'essentiel, les autres menaces ont été proférées à l'encontre de Maghrébins. L'année 2002 s'est aussi caractérisée par une progression de la gravité des violences, toutes confondues, avec un total d'un mort et 38 blessés, chiffres les plus élevés depuis 1995. Le racisme arrive en 7e position dans la liste des sujets de préoccupations des Français. Pourtant, 62 % d'entre eux estiment que le racisme est " plutôt répandu " en France, et 26 %, " très répandu ".

"313

It is the amount of racist violent acts against people and goods, which have been recorded by the Police Minister in 2002, days the yearly report of the National Commission of Human Rights, which pinpoints these figures are a strict minimum. 60 % of these violent acts were targeted at the Jewish community, i.e six times more than in 2002. There are also 992 threats, which are threatening speeches, actions or tags, among which 731 are antisemitic. Most other threats were going against the Arabs. the Year 2002 has show an increased gravity of violence, leading to one dead and 38 wounded. These figures are the highest since 2002. Racism is the 7th concern of the French. However, 62 % think racism is "quite spread" in France, and for 26%, it is "very much spread".



Also, there was another anti-war protest last Saturnday (29 March), mostly organized by the communist party. 30 people had the job to discuss with pro-Arab protestors, to counter calls to violence and to racism. The peace protest and the pro-Arab protest eventually splitted, accord to the television.