11-05-2003 07:41									#91
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Ha Ha

The other guy speaks.

My god is Lenin and the glory of the worker!

And in that respect my powers ARE GODLIKE!

And I am the Rodina!

Its about time you accept that comrade!

	11-05-2003 08:13									#92
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Yes, you rest upon the shoulders of giants, you took the front commanders I appointed and took the credit for their victories, took the plans I had laid out at the begining and call them your own. Yes, you are the Rodina

	11-05-2003 23:46									#93
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so, who's in the Stavka?

	12-05-2003 00:12									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Shaka Naldur so, who's in the Stavka?

In my opinion the only person in Stavka is STYOM.

	12-05-2003 02:34									#95
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 In my opinion the only person in Stavka is STYOM.

How come? I thought I was on STAVKA

	12-05-2003 02:47									#96
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC How come? I thought I was on STAVKA

My opinion is front commanders should not be on Stavka.

It gets more people involved and I believe it should be a separate body that keeps the Marshall in check and used to be a resource on how the war should be conducted.

Now if you guys dont like that thats fine.

If you prefer the council of Generals thats OK too.

But then the Marshall should have the ability to sack them at will. And you still then need a POLITICAL body that the Marshall answers too!

Right now we have a half a$$ organization that is a little of both, serves neither purpose, and doesn't do anything to get more people involved.

Ive got two guys RIGHT NOW who want to do something and I dont have anything for them.

But you Colwyn and Shaka are doing double duty.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

And Im speaking as me not the Marshall. And I would like you guys to keep an open mind because we are paving the way for the future here!

	12-05-2003 04:08									#97
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Sure, makes sense, but then how do front commanders have any input? Will a civilian council (ie the new STAVKA) be making military decisions that bind the front commanders?

	12-05-2003 04:57									#98
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC Sure, makes sense, but then how do front commanders have any input? Will a civilian council (ie the new STAVKA) be making military decisions that bind the front commanders?

In strategic Terms I guess the answer would be yes.

On Operational and Tactical terms the answer would be no.

At least that would be MHO.

Front Commanders would have input to the Marshall who is obligated to keep the Stavka or what ever you want to call it happy.

	12-05-2003 05:00									#99
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but you can't just dismiss the current STAVKA which is composed of myself, H Tower, Colwyn, Six Thousand Year Old Man, Shaka Naldur. or has it been already?

	12-05-2003 05:06									#100
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC but you can't just dismiss the current STAVKA which is composed of myself, H Tower, Colwyn, Six Thousand Year Old Man, Shaka Naldur. or has it been already?

Is that the current Stavka?

The Marshall is not part of Stavka. So when H fleeted up to Marshall he theoretically was no longer on Stavka. Does he go back when he steps down and a seat remains open?

See what I mean its a tad bit screwy right now. And from what I have seen STAVKA hasn't done much up to this point so changing it shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Im just trying to get something that makes sense and gets more people involved. Like I said right now 2 more guys want to get involved, would you like to give up your front and just be STAVKA? Probably not.

See what I mean.?

	12-05-2003 05:15									#101
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true, that's why I think there should be a military council of all front commanders PLUS the marshall, and then a STAVKA composed of ministers/asst ministers/civilians. Is that workable? 2 different councils?

	12-05-2003 05:18									#102
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Why not the one council of "war" headed by the Marshall is accountable to the civilian political council.

I would buy that.

And we would have to figure out a way where the councils could clean house.

If a stavka rep is screwing up then the rest can vote him out.

And we would have to figure how someone gewts on the councils.

Vote or appointment and by whom?

	12-05-2003 05:26									#103
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I say we have STAVKA (military council of front commanders with marshal in charge. everyong has one vote, though marshal has final say. front commanders are appointed by CEC, but front commanders appoint the marshal and he stays as long as they wany)

and a CEC (Central Executive Committee of ministers/asst ministers/civilians with no head. Everyone has one vote, they are elected to a 1 year [in RF time ofcourse ] term and if there is enough popular support, elections can happen early or members removed.)

Does this proposal sound reasonable?

	12-05-2003 05:48									#104
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Yes, Im really beginning to like you despite the fact you are a secessionist!

This sounds reasonable. Gives more people input, and allows for rotation of personnel thru various positions.

The two current ministers would be on the CEC correct?

Are we missing anything?

Id like to hear from H on this one. (His exams are over this week)

	12-05-2003 06:12									#105
	I would accept that proposal anzac Remove this text

Like the 1yr terms!

	12-05-2003 06:23									#106
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Thanks, but I think I'll keep my secession

Yeah the one terms apply to the CEC (the number of whom can vary according to need) They pretty much do all the bureaucracy and petty arguing

While STAVKA (the commanders being appointed by the CEC indefinitely until the CEC wants to change them) talk about general strategy and tactics (though the CEC is welcome to put in input too) and they choose an outdsider, non-front commander as Marshal indefinitely until they choose to sack him.

	12-05-2003 06:24									#107
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The People will be persuaded to like the proposal.

	12-05-2003 06:27									#108
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quote: Originally posted by El Awrence The People will be persuaded to like the proposal.

Yes we have ways of doing that, especially since I believe we need a KGB guy on the CEC.

	12-05-2003 06:39									#109
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Did you recieve my message, Marshal?

	12-05-2003 07:00									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Xenozod Did you recieve my message, Marshal?

Yes and Im working on your request, have you read this thread?

	12-05-2003 08:21									#111
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Only the last few messages. I will proceed to now.

	12-05-2003 10:59									#112
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I favour the revised version of STAVKA - a military council, and a separate civilian council.

In terms of what role each would play - I agree, it makes more sense for the civilian council to make grand strategy decisions (what should the tax rate be? do we advance on a broad front, or a concentrated thrust to Berlin? Do we sack the Marshal? etc.) - and the front commanders to make tactical calls.

There'd have to be a balance betweem the role of the civilian council and the general voting citizenry, and I'm not quite sure how that would work.

I'd also say that it doesn't make a lot of sense for the general commanding a sector to be setting build orders for cities - that would more likely be the job of a civilian commissar - but that's probably impractical.

	12-05-2003 12:17									#113
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I favor Anzacs proposal, as long as CEC members are voted in rather than appointed. However, I am confused, can the Marshal no longer commision new commanders or just that he can not stick them in Stavka?

Last edited by EZRhino on 12-05-2003 at 12:22

	12-05-2003 16:03									#114
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These sound like good ideas but with all these orginisations I think we could do with separate sub-forums for STAVKA and the CEC so each orginisation can hold plently of votes and separate topics of disscusion without totaly cluttering and confusing the main forum.

	12-05-2003 17:46									#115
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quote: Originally posted by greeny These sound like good ideas but with all these orginisations I think we could do with separate sub-forums for STAVKA and the CEC so each orginisation can hold plently of votes and separate topics of disscusion without totaly cluttering and confusing the main forum.

I dont think we are big enough for our britches yet to get sub forums! However I see us getting another sticky thread for the CEC. We already have one for STAVKA. One more wont make much difference. At least not IMHO.

	13-05-2003 00:46									#116
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 At least not IMHO.

Is my memory for internet acronyms failing me or did our Marshal just call his opinion "humble"!

	13-05-2003 02:02									#117
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quote: Originally posted by greeny Is my memory for internet acronyms failing me or did our Marshal just call his opinion "humble"!

ERR, Umm, well, .............

Oh I know I was speaking as conmcb25, not the Marshall! Whew that was a close one, I almost ruined my entire Marshall Image!

	13-05-2003 02:43									#118
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CEC councilmen are voted on by the whole community. They in turn appoint front commanders, and the front commanders select someone else to be marshal. At least this is how I see it. I think we have the general idea down though

	13-05-2003 02:57									#119
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wrong thread

Last edited by Shaka Naldur on 13-05-2003 at 03:03

	13-05-2003 03:01									#120
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fixed that