13-05-2003 03:09									#121
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC CEC councilmen are voted on by the whole community. They in turn appoint front commanders, and the front commanders select someone else to be marshal. At least this is how I see it. I think we have the general idea down though

Yep this is what I agree with. And this is the Threead I would prefer to discuss overhauling the Stavka and Establishing the CEC or did I miss something above?

	13-05-2003 04:52									#122
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Will the marshal still be able to sack commanders?

	13-05-2003 05:05									#123
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Yes, he can sack commanders. And if the Commanders want to get together and sack him then can as well. At least thats my opinion. (Nothing humble about it Greenyov! )

	13-05-2003 05:45									#124
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Commander 1: I ask today for a vote on the subject of dismissing our current rodina!

Commander 2: I vote yay!

Commanders present: Yay!

Commander 1: With my last vote, the fate of the current Marshal shall be decided!

(All commanders present are sacked)

	13-05-2003 07:13									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Xenozod Commander 1: I ask today for a vote on the subject of dismissing our current rodina! Commander 2: I vote yay! Commanders present: Yay! Commander 1: With my last vote, the fate of the current Marshal shall be decided! (All commanders present are sacked)

I just want you to know it is very EASY to send a Red Army Soldier to the Gulag. No political repercussions at all..............

	13-05-2003 07:16									#126
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There will be no "sacking " of present Front Commanders.

This is just a proposal to clearly define Civilian and military authority and also get some more interested folks involved in a productive way.

How are we going to approve this, Should we have a vote ?

	13-05-2003 08:31									#127
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I my opinion, the entire point of a Democracy game is participation. The creation of the CEC will allow more people to get involved. I myself was hesitant to run for a position before, but with the CEC's creation impending, I now hope to have the chance to be on it. The more people involved in this game, the better.

	13-05-2003 09:18									#128
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OK tomorrow Im going to try to put down in one post what the changes to Stavka would be and what the new CEC or POLITBURO would be. (Could we just call it the Politburo Anzac?)

So in the next 12 hours or so if you have an idea about what the jobs in the new politburo/CEC should be post then here.

My ideas thus far:
Armaments Minister
Economic Minister
Propoganda Minister
(All the above existing)
NKVD or KGB
Political Officer
General Secratary (only has one vote more of an organizer than a supreme dictator.)

Thats six we should have one more so no ties.

Any ideas?

If we dont get enough interest we cap it at 5.

Any other comments or ideas will be welcome. Im going to start typing in about 10 hours or so.

	13-05-2003 11:25									#129
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What purpose would these new positions serve? So far I like the proposed reforms, but this seems like a fifth weel.

	13-05-2003 15:52									#130
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I like Politburo :d:

	13-05-2003 19:04									#131
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quote: Originally posted by EZRhino What purpose would these new positions serve? So far I like the proposed reforms, but this seems like a fifth weel.

To provide control over the civilian portions of the game, like the Urals build up, what tech we should research, what the taxes should be, where the convoys (trade units) go., etc.

Plus the big thing in my mind is it gives additional people a chance to contribute. Thats the most important reason. This is a Democracy Game after all.

	14-05-2003 02:02									#132
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Well, sure we can call it the Politburo. However, limiting it to five or six, well, seems like nto a lot. What about deputy ministers? or just common citizens? They should have a place on here, as this would sort of be the argument committee in a way Just my 2 cents.

	14-05-2003 02:32									#133
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC CEC councilmen are voted on by the whole community. They in turn appoint front commanders, and the front commanders select someone else to be marshal. At least this is how I see it. I think we have the general idea down though

WHAT???

You have the front commanders selecting the marshal? No, no no! It should be the marshal selecting the front commanders. The commanders should not be playing at politics, they should be planning strategy, and fighting battles! Let the Marshal select the fron commanders. And the CEC or POLITBURO, whichever we decide to call it, select the marshal.

As for the politburo, why not keep it at 5? it could be called the defense council council, with everyone having a vote in the wider politburo (which is basically just the entire Red Front Community)

	14-05-2003 02:35									#134
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quote: Originally posted by The ANZAC Well, sure we can call it the Politburo. However, limiting it to five or six, well, seems like nto a lot. What about deputy ministers? or just common citizens? They should have a place on here, as this would sort of be the argument committee in a way Just my 2 cents.

Yep great idea keep them comming Anzac!

We could have 5 to 7 positions, and then everyone else could be on a "Central Committee", just like the Soviet Union.

And it could become the forum for everyone to contribute and or b1tch or whatever.

This is good if someone has a "position" they probably feel they should contribute more. Good Good Good, this is shaping up.

	14-05-2003 02:37									#135
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Here is one way we could do this:

Keep all of the positions mentioned by the Marshal except for Political Officer, so there will be no ties.

Each position be given deputy officers that can be delegated certain matters. This would allow even more people to participate.

This is just a suggestion, of course.

	14-05-2003 02:39									#136
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower WHAT??? You have the front commanders selecting the marshal? No, no no! It should be the marshal selecting the front commanders. The commanders should not be playing at politics, they should be planning strategy, and fighting battles! Let the Marshal select the fron commanders. And the CEC or POLITBURO, whichever we decide to call it, select the marshal. As for the politburo, why not keep it at 5? it could be called the defense council council, with everyone having a vote in the wider politburo (which is basically just the entire Red Front Community)

I dont have a problem with the selections being done this way BUT I would prefer not to limit the Politburu to 5. Lets leave that flexible. That way if we have 7 people interested we have a 7 person politburo. If we have only 5 then we have only 5. I just dont want to set an artificial number before this thing gets going.

Sound OK H?

I still need to put the proposal in one post. I will work on that soon.

	14-05-2003 02:41									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Xenozod Here is one way we could do this: Keep all of the positions mentioned by the Marshal except for Political Officer, so there will be no ties. Each position be given deputy officers that can be delegated certain matters. This would allow even more people to participate. This is just a suggestion, of course.

This is good too!

The 5 or 7 could after elected appoint there own deputies. Then just about everyone could have a "position" whether elected or not. Im just thinking of that ownership issue again. The more someone feels ownership the more someone will participate.

	14-05-2003 02:49									#138
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Maybe the politburo could have monthly or so(game time) sessions where people could comment on the decisions it makes. I think the politburo would be willing to listen and even change some of its policies, thus enabling everybody to have a hand in the government.

I also support the idea of aloowing members of the politburo to elect their own deputies.

	14-05-2003 02:57									#139
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Will these new ministers actually play the game? NKVD officer moving NKVD troopers and so on? If this is the case than I am against this. We dont really need to drag out the turns any more. Otherwise it would seem that any powers granted these proposed positions would be overly redundent.

	14-05-2003 03:09									#140
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I don't think they will actually get to play the game. Also, I think instead of a NKVD officer, it will be KGB.

	14-05-2003 03:17									#141
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quote: Originally posted by EZRhino Will these new ministers actually play the game? NKVD officer moving NKVD troopers and so on? If this is the case than I am against this. We dont really need to drag out the turns any more. Otherwise it would seem that any powers granted these proposed positions would be overly redundent.

Well I guess we need a crumudgeaon in every crowd.

Is one of the goals to get more people involved or not?

If so what is the problem.

The turns have been moving fine recently. Aren't we supposed to take a little time so people who aren't actively playing can comment? And Im sticking to my directive if you dont play your turn within three days then someone else will play for you. Seems simple enough. If we stick to that we could have a turn done every 4 to 5 days, That gives p[eople a chance to comment. (Thats a good thing right, this being a demo game?)

I had a few telling me we were going to fast.

I guess you can't keep all happy.

But then if you dont like the Politburo then I guess you dont have to run. I was going to nominate you, should I not?

	14-05-2003 03:27									#142
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If the ministers played the game, I doubt there would be much of a slowdown, as they would probably have quite a bit less to do than the Front Commanders. Unlike a PBEM, a turn every 5 days isn't that bad for a Demo game(especially one with as many people participating as this one.)

	14-05-2003 03:27									#143
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I like the idea of the politburo more people involved in the game
but for example
the NKVD comander moving his units, will be a mess to do that, and at the end he will move just a few units, I aggre with EZRhino on that

I like all the positions you put for the politburo but I don´t think the powers of the politburo have been described properly

	14-05-2003 03:27									#144
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the Marshal currently move the NKVD?

	14-05-2003 03:33									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Xenozod Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the Marshal currently move the NKVD?

Only when its a reinforcement. Once an NKVD is "assigned" it belongs to the Front Commander.

I believe the idea of an NKVD guy moving all the NKVD's was discussed and canned as too time consumming.

Only one city is producing them right now and that Saratov (I think, I get that one and Saransk confused.)

	14-05-2003 03:34									#146
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If that is the case, then instead of a NKVD position, we should go with the KGB one.

	14-05-2003 03:35									#147
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Only one city is producing them right now and that Saratov (I think, I get that one and Saransk confused.)

you are correct beloved marshall

	14-05-2003 03:36									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Shaka Naldur I like all the positions you put for the politburo but I don´t think the powers of the politburo have been described properly

Yep your right , I need to work on a proposal, but unfortunately real life got in the way today and tonight I have to post a turn. (Which takes me a while)

So it will probably be tomorrow at the earliest.

And Im going to come up with Generic ideas right now. We can develop the Politburo over time. I just dont want to lock us into something, come up with a good idea later and then be able to do it because we agreed on something concrete now.

Lets let this develop and see how it goes.

remember we are inventing as we go along and hopefully what we do can become the model for whoever else does a demo game like this in the future.

	14-05-2003 08:03									#149
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I've finally finished my studies at the War College in Gorki and I'm ready to take over again as Marshal from comrade Knapovich. I'd like to complement him on a job well done in my absence, but I am ready to take command again.

-Oleg Sorokin

	14-05-2003 09:29									#150
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quote: Originally posted by H Tower I've finally finished my studies at the War College in Gorki and I'm ready to take over again as Marshal from comrade Knapovich. I'd like to complement him on a job well done in my absence, but I am ready to take command again. -Oleg Sorokin

No way! I already sent you to the Gulag for questioning my godlike authority! (God being Lenin of course!)

If you think you can do it try and get me to step down.

The Rodina needs me!

PS Im taking up the blanket collection soon, no hard feelings OK?