15-04-2003 03:11									#91
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by FiGu you should put Finland neutral in this scenario. it was first later that they signed with the russians a military alliance.

Keep in mind that this scenario follows a hypothetical timeline...

At the outset, Finland is an Allied WARPAC power.
NATO will have the task of liberating Helsinki without tipping the war scale with the USSR...

PS
Have that unit list for you very soon, this scenario is eating up my time, completely!

	15-04-2003 14:02									#92
	Inflate your Upload Space

Curt, it's probably a bit late to be joining the units debate, but I would give the Brits the Lincoln bomber in '45 and the Canberra in the 50's. In '45 they re-equipped with Comets (replacing Shermans) and by 1950 were mainly using the Centurion, which was by far the most powerfully armed MBT of the time. I'd give the Americans M26s in the immediate post-war era, replaced by M48s and then M60s.

These are tweaked versions of units I've posted before - if you can use any of them, help yourself.

Attachment: coldwargb.gif
This has been downloaded 154 time(s).

	15-04-2003 19:20									#93
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I to really think you should put both Sweden and Finland neutral. In real world, Sweden had one of the biggest airforces in the world around 1950. Together with a great army.

	15-04-2003 20:37									#94
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

@fairline:
Thanks so much! These will be of massive usefulness in the next few days!

x 10!

@Nibble:
Worry not, Sweden will be neutral.
Freeing Finland from under Minor WARPAC control is one of the missions for the NATO factions...

I will soon post and list of 'world crisis hotspots' that can be tackled in the scenario!

	16-04-2003 02:33									#95
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos Er.... USSR won the Russo-Finnish war(all of them) in our own history as well.

I disagree. I think it was a stalemate. The Russians wnated to ensure that the Finns would not allow a foreign power (Germany) to use Finland as a base from which to invade the USSR and they failed. The Finns wanted to keep their territory in Viipuri and failed to do that as well, so all in all it was a stalemate IMHO.

	16-04-2003 10:23									#96
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Nibbe I to really think you should put both Sweden and Finland neutral. In real world, Sweden had one of the biggest airforces in the world around 1950. Together with a great army.

The fourth biggest to be exact

As I recall it was entirely fighter based though, no bombers at all.

	16-04-2003 14:14									#97
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by EmuGod I disagree. I think it was a stalemate. The Russians wnated to ensure that the Finns would not allow a foreign power (Germany) to use Finland as a base from which to invade the USSR and they failed. The Finns wanted to keep their territory in Viipuri and failed to do that as well, so all in all it was a stalemate IMHO.

First of all we talking about the Russo-finnish war of 1939, right?

The Russians wanted some breathing space for Leningrad and demanded Karelia from the Finns.

The Finns refused and war ensued. In the end it was the Russians that got their hands on the Karelia.

In my way of thinking that means victory, albeit at a heavy cost.

	16-04-2003 14:51									#98
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Latest take on the units! Construction work still underway...Comments, advice and criticisms welcome!

Attachment: units.gif
This has been downloaded 110 time(s).

	16-04-2003 20:16									#99
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Holy Crow, it's Sean Connery!
So...are the units with German shields Nazi hardliners, or are they event created reinforcements drawn from Wehrmacht veterans?

And who are those troops with the Eagles on Black?

	16-04-2003 21:11									#100
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos First of all we talking about the Russo-finnish war of 1939, right? The Russians wanted some breathing space for Leningrad and demanded Karelia from the Finns. The Finns refused and war ensued. In the end it was the Russians that got their hands on the Karelia. In my way of thinking that means victory, albeit at a heavy cost.

We are, but the Russians alreayd had Karelia, it was Viipuri that they wanted. Later they added the captured territories from Finland into Karelia. Also, part of Stalin's plan was to take over the entire country and set up a putpet state called the Democratic Republic of Finland. When the Soviets declared war, their war slogan was "3 days to Helsinki!" and needless to say, they never made it that far. Hence, the Finns kept their independence and the Russians got some of the breathing room for Leningrad. Neither accomplished their goals entirely. The Finns wanted to hold all their territory and the Russians wanted the entire area as a place where Germany would not be able to strike them from. Neither of them accomplished their tasks, so they had a stalemate.

	17-04-2003 02:21									#101
	Suffering from ads?

Curt - NATO isn't really going to have a spy unit, is it?

	17-04-2003 05:53									#102
	Inflate your Upload Space

You could work a spy in as a hero or somesuch I guess, but I wouldn't think you'd want too many of them running around...

	17-04-2003 14:34									#103
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Iron Chancellor Holy Crow, it's Sean Connery! So...are the units with German shields Nazi hardliners, or are they event created reinforcements drawn from Wehrmacht veterans? And who are those troops with the Eagles on Black?

Things are changing daily with the units...

Yep there may be spy units, on both sides...
The MI5 agent and the Communist agitator can fight and defend, but they are also used for city defections.
Also I am hoping you can deactivate the tech theft ability.
The techs are called plans/blueprints in this scenario, so you can steal them if you want.
But the NATO will not be able to build USSR tanks, for instance...

If the spies idea is not workable I might just make them uber-units.

The German units are Landwehr, the democratically-oathed German army.
In the Scenario, they were raised after WW2 to bolster the NATO force.

The unit with the eagle shield will not have that shield for long.
The eagle is the generic symbol for he rouge states.
These guys are guerrilas or Mid-East soldier units.
Expect them in the battles around Israel...

	17-04-2003 14:35									#104
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by ravagon You could work a spy in as a hero or somesuch I guess, but I wouldn't think you'd want too many of them running around...

These units will be expensive, and they may not even be buildable...(events only)

	17-04-2003 17:26									#105
	Suffering from ads?

Actually the russian wanted a pretty small territory in the karelian near viipuri, which included a large part of the Mannerheim Line. The largest defensive line that the finns had. They also wanted a pretty small territory near Petsamo,the so called Fiskhalvarön, so the could control the trading there.

The main reason the finns lost was that they didnt have the weapons they needed.
Most of the airforce was by bi-planes and a couple of buffalos.
And a small part of the army didnt even have weapon, so they had to take all the weapons that they cóuld find from dead russian soldiers.

If the British and French soldiers would arrive, then a war would have started between the allies and soviets so that would'nt been good.

BTW, my scenario is soon done

	18-04-2003 07:07									#106
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Here's my newer KV-85 I was talking about: I think it is much better than the one you have. Then again it is your choice

Attachment: kv85.gif
This has been downloaded 195 time(s).

	18-04-2003 16:32									#107
	Support Apolyton

ANZAC, thy KV85 shall be used!

I will edit the wheels to the usual muddy colour and it will be a perfect addition!

Thanking you much!

	18-04-2003 20:58									#108
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by FiGu Actually the russian wanted a pretty small territory in the karelian near viipuri, which included a large part of the Mannerheim Line. The largest defensive line that the finns had. They also wanted a pretty small territory near Petsamo,the so called Fiskhalvarön, so the could control the trading there. The main reason the finns lost was that they didnt have the weapons they needed. Most of the airforce was by bi-planes and a couple of buffalos. And a small part of the army didnt even have weapon, so they had to take all the weapons that they cóuld find from dead russian soldiers. If the British and French soldiers would arrive, then a war would have started between the allies and soviets so that would'nt been good. BTW, my scenario is soon done

]




I have read that the Finnish goverment had cancelled all orders for new anti-tank guns just a few months before the Soviet attack, believing that an eventuality such as a war would never occur.


Is it true?

	19-04-2003 00:20									#109
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

well, i really hope you give Sweden a lot of fighters mr. makerofthescenario. So we could play as our lovely country and invade Norway

	19-04-2003 17:05									#110
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Nibbe well, i really hope you give Sweden a lot of fighters mr. makerofthescenario. So we could play as our lovely country and invade Norway

hehe that would indeed be nice but I'm pretty sure that Sweden isn't playable in this scenario.

	19-04-2003 17:07									#111
	Suffering from ads?

We demand Sweden as a playable civ!

	19-04-2003 17:31									#112
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Hey! you could make one civ that has Norway,Denmark,Sweden and Finland

	20-04-2003 06:24									#113
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Don't forget Iceland, the Faroe Islands and Greenland in that civ! Where else in Scandinavia will you retreat to if the Soviets begin a blitzkrieg?

	20-04-2003 09:10									#114
	Support Apolyton

You could give them the Lutfisk wonder (King Rick)! Mega-nourished Scandinavian workers break productivity records! Unfortunately, Stockholm's landscape risks becoming a toxic waste dump from all the leftover lye soaking solution.

(Italians get Bagnacauda Wonder (GW). No one can approach their cities )

	20-04-2003 18:09									#115
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Hehehe. You could skip that worthless civilization USA, the only thing good that comes out of there is Simpsons

Honestly. To make it like reality, sweden should have a big army and lots of fighters

	20-04-2003 18:18									#116
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Boco You could give them the Lutfisk wonder (King Rick)!

	20-04-2003 18:19									#117
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Vänta nu... Lutfisk är riktigt äckligt!
Whoops, wrong language :P

	20-04-2003 19:56									#118
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Lutfisk är helt ok, åtminstonde en gång om året imho

	20-04-2003 23:39									#119
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

ey, Curt, don´t forget about your PBEM!

	21-04-2003 02:56									#120
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yeah!