21-04-2003 06:38									#121
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quote: Hehehe. You could skip that worthless civilization USA, the only thing good that comes out of there is Simpsons

What you need is an 'anti-wonder' called US TV (riktigt äckligt). All other civs get a science WoW, as Americans turn into drooling couch potatoes. Some of those WoW's expire when Bart Simpson is discovered.

Wasn't the destruction of the Northern iron mines a key component of the cold war Swedish defense plan? Or was that just against the steel-starved Axis during WWII?

I was impressed long ago by a photo of a Viggen taking off from a superhighway. Sort of an instant airfield.

	21-04-2003 11:24									#122
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Boco are you swedish?
I never realized

Suddenly it seems these boards are full of us

	21-04-2003 11:38									#123
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It seems that the "Scenario League / Civ2-Creation" Forum is as much the lair of the Swedes than the OT forum is the one of the Finns...

	21-04-2003 12:39									#124
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Indeed!

	21-04-2003 14:35									#125
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I might give my Northern brothers in Scandinavia a special wonder for themselves in Soviet Steel!

Any ideas?

	21-04-2003 15:02									#126
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quote: It seems that the "Scenario League / Civ2-Creation" Forum is as much the lair of the Swedes than the OT forum is the one of the Finns...

You're right.. im the only finn here and in civ2 pbem
But im a finn that speaks both Swedish and Finnish

quote: I might give my Northern brothers in Scandinavia a special wonder for themselves in Soviet Steel! Any ideas?

Why not Tre kronor in Stockholm or Mannerheim in Helsinki!

	21-04-2003 16:11									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik Lutfisk är helt ok, åtminstonde en gång om året imho

Only "Norrlänningar" eats lutfisk I don't like the smell or taste of it :P

	21-04-2003 16:16									#128
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Swedish neutrality?
The Swedish/Norwegian Iron Fields where important during ww2 so I suppose they still would be during this scenario (Colosus? King Richards Crusade?)
Not sure about when the Norwegians managed to start drilling oil in their ocean but that should've become an objective for anyone fighting war in Europe as well I suppose...
I suppose weapons industries like Bofors could be a wonder as well...

	21-04-2003 16:19									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Arthedain Only "Norrlänningar" eats lutfisk I don't like the smell or taste of it :P

I'm a "skåning" and while I agree about the smell I like the taste

	21-04-2003 16:32									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik I'm a "skåning" and while I agree about the smell I like the taste

Welll Skåne rules, we all know that.

But back to topic. I agree with Henrik that the iron minefields in northern Sweden could be a wonder. I don't think the Norweigans drilled so much oil during this timeperiod but that's also another option for a wonder.

	24-04-2003 07:25									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik while I agree about the smell I like the taste

Most people I know feel this way. Except my father, who in all of his travels has become jaded from exotic food

	24-04-2003 08:05									#132
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To get this thread off the "death to America" track and back on to the "hey, let's talk about the topic" I'm wondering, how's the scenario going, Curt?

Got any idea on a public release?

	24-04-2003 09:04									#133
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Please tell me what you mean when you say that this thread is on the "death to america track".

	24-04-2003 11:10									#134
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If you've ever eaten Minnesotan Lutfisk, you'll know what "Death to America" feels like!

	24-04-2003 14:25									#135
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Gentlemen, let's forget crappy politics and talk scenarios.

OK, progress update:

People graphics are done and I am just about done on the units.
I am also going to design a new city graphics...
The Rules and Events are next. (I am happy to use any contributions for events if you submit them!)
After that I will be adding units and features to the map.

Then it will be playtest time!

PS
I think the 'Bofors Corporation' will be a wonder for the Karrelian region...

	24-04-2003 16:38									#136
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Karelia?
I thought Bofors was based in Sweden...

	24-04-2003 20:34									#137
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I meant the Karelia region!

Or Sweden, for scenario purposes...
As I can't spare a civ for Sweden, Finland and Norway (although I'd like to)
I am going to give the Neutral civs the Bofors Plant wonder and an event-awarded Bofors-manufactured gun unit.

And if Karelia is invaded by the Reds, then the Bofors tech is given to the Euro-NATO civ.

If the WARPAC civs conquer Stockholm, then they get the killer artillery unit to use too...

	25-04-2003 23:54									#138
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Here is the map with all cities placed.

Just to let you see the scale of conflict...
Feedback welcome...

Attachment: red-test1.sav
This has been downloaded 19 time(s).

	26-04-2003 02:41									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik Karelia? I thought Bofors was based in Sweden...

I 'm actually smoking "Karelia Lights" this very minute (I 've "quit" smoking, btw, but you know how it goes...)
Just adding to the Karelian confusion

	26-04-2003 03:07									#140
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Not bad, curt. Just two things I noticed, however:

It's "Rogue", not "Rouge".

And I think it should be Anwar Sadat rather than Ansar Sadat. Don't hold me to this though.

	26-04-2003 03:12									#141
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@Paul, cheers!

The map is at a hideous early stage, and I expect many changes over the next few days!

	26-04-2003 03:13									#142
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While I am fixing the map, here are the people faces!

Attachment: people.gif
This has been downloaded 269 time(s).

	26-04-2003 04:45									#143
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling

Curt! It's better to remove Spain from the NATO Alliance, as in the 1950's (until 1975) was a Dictatorship with no international relations (until 1955, with the Marshall Plan)). In fact, Spain entered the NATO in the 80's. I suggest to put Spain as a Neutral nation

BTW, Great work, my friend!

	26-04-2003 05:28									#144
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I like the rich Texans, very unique!
Maybe you could make the USSR unhappy people look a little more "Western?" It would symbolize the class of dissenters living within (I'm thinking Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn).
Shouldn't Turkey be part of NATO?

	26-04-2003 09:17									#145
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About South Africa - Johannesburg is south of Harare, not north (which, by the way, present-day Harare was called Salisbury until the 1980 ousting of Ian Smith's government)

Plus, I believe Namibia was ruled by South Africa until 1990, so historically, Walvis Bay would be under SA's control.

Concerning Baghdad, isn't it just a bit too far north? One or two squares down it seems to look better...

	26-04-2003 12:58									#146
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Curt, if the scenario starts in 1945 shouldn't a lot more of the map be in the British Empire? India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, Kenya, Tanzania, Nigeria, Palestine, Iraq, Persia, Malaya, Oman, Hong Kong were all in British hands or subject to a strong British military presence in the immediate post-war era, and some of these states didn't gain independence until the 50s and 60s. South Africa was also not regarded as the rogue state that it later became. Even if you include Isreal as an independent state, it was certainly not the US ally that it is now - the Americans threatened Britain and Isreal over the Suez Crisis in 56.

Also, France was still propping up its own empire (Indochina, Algeria etc). Perhaps you could incorporate the struggle for independence as part of the scenario.

	26-04-2003 14:38									#147
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Pablostuka,
Rmsharpe,
Fairline,
Iron Chancellor,



Guys, thanks for the pointers, I will implement as much advice here as I can!

The scenario is set in a hypothetical world, and the limited amount of civs is a problem when representing powers.

	26-04-2003 20:07									#148
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In fact, Israel's earliest military allies were WARPAC countries (Czechoslovakia especially) and it was (still sort of is) rather socialist with communal living. I'd like to see a communist-alligned Israel, with perhaps a Western-backed Middle East. THAT would be counter-historical.

To create the independence struggles, you could have event-created barbarian guerrilas, or perhaps diplomats? How does the Barbarian AI use units with the diplomatic flag?

There really were no "rogue" states until after the fall of communism as the world was split among the West, the Soviet Bloc, and the (socialist-leaning) Third Way. Could Rogue States be places seized by barbarians, which then become up for grabs by super-powers?

	26-04-2003 21:22									#149
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I am thinking of making the 'rogue' states into 'independant' states...
With an agenda that is separate from the West/East struggle.

Makes them less of a target and more useful for indendance struggles.
They are like the neutrals, but more militant!

Iron, I like your ideas about Israel, but what power bloc would be best to represent them?



For barbs I am going to use them to represent other factions that are out to cause mayhem...

Yep, and barb-controlled cities may be up for grabs, but they won't be easy to grab!

If event-created barbs are possible in MGE, then I will be using them to the max!

	27-04-2003 01:06									#150
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A little more on Africa, Curt...

Monrovia (Liberia) was independent from any European powers since 1858, if I recall, but Freetown (Sierra Leone) was under British control, as well as Lagos (Nigeria)