11-04-2003 04:46									#391
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quote: "Lionel Richie was the best singer-songwriter of his generation." I don't know which is funnier

Who's better? Admittedly, he had little competition. However, you must acknowledge that the man has a way with a tune, love songs in particular...

	11-04-2003 06:05									#392
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Spiffor: if you agree that we need to keep the other Arab states out of the internal politics of Iraq (they all have conflicts of interest), then they also have keep the UN out. I don't see how the UN can be in charge of the politics of Iraq, without having to listen to, pacify and/or comply with virtually every Arab demand made upon it.

Isn't what the UN is there for? To listen to and analyze all points of view? What you want, and many in the US want is for the UN only listen to the demands of two countries the US and UK, and that is not multilateralism. Sorry but all countries have a voice and a vote, tough luck, but you signed the UN Charter so deal with it.

quote: Grumbler, one of the things we certainly must do and keep control of for a period time is the education of the Iraqi youth. Can you imagine classes resuming in Iraq using Saddam Hussein's textbooks that teach anti-Americanism and hatred of the the Jews and Israel?

Hmm... and what are the US textbooks going to teach but another distorted view of world history..

quote: Also, should we insist that Iraq enter into a peace treaty with Israel as a condition for turning over power to a new elected government?

I'll agree, if only Mr. Blix is sent to Israel and if Israel does not comply send 250,000 coalition troops to take out Sharon.

	11-04-2003 06:08									#393
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Not you. At the risk of being returned to my cell, I was addressing the illustrious GePap, Che, and Master Zen for starters. Worthless as teats on a boar hog.

Slowwhand:

First of all I did not spam any more than you have, and at least have posted semi-intelligent arguments unlike your insult-riddled crap.

Why you haven't been banned is a mystery that defies my logic.

have a nice day

	11-04-2003 06:09									#394
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Also, should we insist that Iraq enter into a peace treaty with Israel as a condition for turning over power to a new elected government?

Abso-freakinng-lutely not!

You can't say you are there to liberate someone and then put conditions on their freedom. If what we say is true, that Iraqis should be rfee to rule themselves, then they must be equally free to decide their foreing affairs. Any treaty the Us forced down upon Iraq would be seen as illegitimate, and I have yet said ntohing abou how such a move would be percieved all around the Arab world, including Iraq itself.

	11-04-2003 06:18									#395
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Abso-freakinng-lutely not! You can't say you are there to liberate someone and then put conditions on their freedom. If what we say is true, that Iraqis should be rfee to rule themselves, then they must be equally free to decide their foreing affairs. Any treaty the Us forced down upon Iraq would be seen as illegitimate, and I have yet said ntohing abou how such a move would be percieved all around the Arab world, including Iraq itself.

I think yes. But this explains, does it not, why it is so important for us to move aggressively now a Middle East peace plan. We simply cannot turn Iraq lose without a peace treaty with Israel. I also agree that we cannot force Iraq into a peace treaty with Israel that the majority of Iraqis would find objectionable.

I wonder what the Bush Middle East peace plan is?

	11-04-2003 06:21									#396
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Most Iraquis would not support any type of peace deal first of all. Second of all, you are there now to rebuild the country and establish democracy and freedom, NOT to alter its foreign policy as you wish.

What will you do when the new Iraqui government rejects the peace treaty it was forced to sign? Re-invade?

	11-04-2003 06:21									#397
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quote: I wonder what the Bush Middle East peace plan is?

I am sure you will be able to find a copy of the "road-map" once it comes out. The question is whether the Bush admin. will allow Sharon to edit it as he would want.

	11-04-2003 06:24									#398
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Master Zen, one of our objectives to establish a democracy in Iraq that other Arab states could use as a blueprint for reform. They are now deathly afraid of democracy and would do anything in their power to make sure that Iraq emerges with a government very much like their own, and with anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism intact.

Understanding this, we simply cannot allow the Arabs states to have any major voice in the future of Iraq.

As to the new textbooks, I am sure that they will paint America in a favorable light. What did do you expect?

	11-04-2003 06:26									#399
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Most Iraquis would not support any type of peace deal first of all. Second of all, you are there now to rebuild the country and establish democracy and freedom, NOT to alter its foreign policy as you wish. What will you do when the new Iraqui government rejects the peace treaty it was forced to sign? Re-invade?

As I said, we stay there until they agree to peace with Israel. But the deal has to be fair and agreed to by both Israel and the Palestinians.

	11-04-2003 06:36									#400
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Master Zen, one of our objectives to establish a democracy in Iraq that other Arab states could use as a blueprint for reform. They are now deathly afraid of democracy and would do anything in their power to make sure that Iraq emerges with a government very much like their own, and with anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism intact. Understanding this, we simply cannot allow the Arabs states to have any major voice in the future of Iraq. As to the new textbooks, I am sure that they will paint America in a favorable light. What did do you expect?

What you dont want is for "certain" Arab states to have voice (i.e. Syria and Iran).

If you fear this then you are just admitting that the democracy the US will set up will be too weak and meager to let the Iraqi people run things for themselves. You have full faith in the establishment of democracy but apprently very little in whether that democracy will succeed. If this is so there was no reason for this war in the first place and would just demonstrate the main objective of this conflict was to topple Saddam, not leave Iraq with the institutions necessary for it to succeed in the future.

	11-04-2003 06:38									#401
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quote: Originally posted by Ned As I said, we stay there until they agree to peace with Israel. But the deal has to be fair and agreed to by both Israel and the Palestinians.

So you distrust the new US-installed democratic government to distinguish fair deals from others?

	11-04-2003 08:21									#402
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Master Zen, one of our objectives to establish a democracy in Iraq that other Arab states could use as a blueprint for reform. They are now deathly afraid of democracy and would do anything in their power to make sure that Iraq emerges with a government very much like their own, and with anti-Americanism and anti-Zionism intact. Understanding this, we simply cannot allow the Arabs states to have any major voice in the future of Iraq.

I take it you want to fight every Islamic and Arab country then?

Consultation with the OIC and AL is extremely important - not to let them run Iraq or shape Iraqi policy, but to defuse propaganda in the arab streets that we're using Iraq as a base for Yankee imperialism.

quote: As to the new textbooks, I am sure that they will paint America in a favorable light. What did do you expect?

Ah, so we replace cult-of-personality indoctrination on the greatness of Saddam with America uber alles indoctrination. How many generations of our kids do you want to be going off to fight Arabs?

We have no business going beyond seeing that textbooks are depoliticized, and that education is readily available.

	11-04-2003 08:24									#403
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BTW, we don't need to give a **** if Iraq has a peace treaty with Israel, any more than we care about their relations with Zambia. After what we've done and are doing now, the Iraqis won't have power projection abilities across their borders for a long time.

Keeping our hands off their foreign policy is one of the best ways to prevent and derail any propagandizing from the Islamic street.

	11-04-2003 09:16									#404
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Keeping our hands off their foreign policy is one of the best ways to prevent and derail any propagandizing from the Islamic street.

MtG, you and I don't usually agree on things, but I have to admit this is right on . The more the US meddles in the affairs of the Iraquis which have no part in nation-building, the better for the Iraquis to end up feeling at least less negatively about the US occupation.

	11-04-2003 13:35									#405
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MtG and Master Zen, the war with Syria and Iran has already begun. Their fighters are in Iraq engaging coalition troops. They had a meeting just prior to the Iraq war's start. Now we can see the pattern of their agreement.

I don't know where Bush will take this. But Fliescher has already confrimed that Rumsfeld's tough talk on Syria and Iran is endorsed by the president.

Reports from Damascus indicate that that government knows that the US will soon make a series of demands on it. One of these will be to disarm Hizbollah. The report said, Syria will refuse.

I now see that war with Syria is inevitable.

I also think the ayatollah's of Iran will be overthrown.

	11-04-2003 13:37									#406
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quote: I now see that war with Syria is inevitable.

...

	11-04-2003 14:05									#407
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quote: Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre I will not celebrate until they dance in the streets of Tikrit and Mosul. Those cities are Saddam-land, which the south isn't. The coalition forces have not even entered the dragons lair yet...

One down, one to go.

	11-04-2003 18:08									#408
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48 hours to "cool off". My butt Mike, that was punishment for dancing with the Iraqis. You came in grumpy and found someone to ban with your coffee.

Liberals seem to be fairly grumpy about the joy of the Iraqis have at being liberated by the US, and their apparent gratitude to president Bush.

That twit with the insults hiding behind the internet deserved to be told off, I regret nothing. I'd expect you would have words for him if it was you.

Sure, marines are still dieing while I'm dancing, but I can dance full of joy with people feeling freedom for the fist time, and be concerned for the fighters at the same time, or another time, and mourn the dead in their time. The reason our soldiers are dieng is, in part, to free those people dancing in the street. I'm happy for the marines and the citizens of Iraq. I got banned because of my politics and because people are dancing in the street, and you hate Bush and republicans enough to not want them to. They are FREE...deal with it.

People are hungry in China, do you still eat? Marines haven't had a shower in weeks, do you still bathe? Do you still smile now and again day to day, or are you permanantly glum? I mean more than usual. Just a thought, I don't care one way or another...I'd rather join the Iraqis in their freedom dance...





Because, cutie pie, that's what it's about, whether you like it or not!

	11-04-2003 18:09									#409
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WOOooooHOOOoooo!

	11-04-2003 18:15									#410
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk One down, one to go.

Yes, like the story in Command & Conquer or any other cliche game, the bad guy's home town is the last you attack.

	11-04-2003 18:18									#411
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer 48 hours to "cool off". My butt Mike, that was punishment for dancing with the Iraqis. You came in grumpy and found someone to ban with your coffee.

Think yourself lucky. I was banned for two weeks for calling Ming a dipsh*t (which in my opinion is not much of an insult). Looking at your little exchange, I think you got off lightly.

	11-04-2003 18:24									#412
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quote: I got banned because of my politics

Actually, I think you got banned for a profanity laced personal attack. It's a shame your celebration is devoid of insult. It's one thing to cheer and hold the American flag with one hand, and then give someone the finger with the other.

	11-04-2003 18:25									#413
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Rogan, two weeks, two months, I haven't a problem with either. I've left for more than 6 months on my own before. I'm a happy guy and I'll be a happy guy whether I can post at this website or not.

If Ming hadn't been trying to drive me away it's very likely that I wouldn't be posting here any more...

Oh yeah, I got a pcr from Markos one time. I've never looked at how many posts I have. I check my checking account # occasionally, but the pc is meaningless to me. They give them so they can hurt you by taking them away. It's a currency of control. I didn't ask for a pc and I didn't earn it.

	11-04-2003 18:28									#414
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See Sava, you got it. I AM capable of multi tasking.

	11-04-2003 18:30									#415
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I used to think the mods were unfair when it came to banning. There was one instance with Ming where I thought I was being treated unfairly. But I realized my stupidity, saw where I had messed up, and admitted my fault. Whether or not the mods agree with your politics or not, if a crazy, obnoxious, raving leftist like me gets treated fairly, chance are you do to.

	11-04-2003 18:34									#416
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What's worse, Someone, is disgracing the American flag and giving the finger.

As far as waiting until it's completely done?
Bullshit. I enjoy every bite of a meal. I don't wait until I've gobbled it all down, then think reflectively how good it was.
Sure, the military needs to still show caution.
And sure, while I'm enjoying my meal, I need to exercise caution I don't choke on my next bite.

	11-04-2003 18:42									#417
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Sava, there's fellas like me, who get themselves banned for whatever silly reason, and then there's a guy like Sloww here, who BANS HIMSELF because he didn't like the way I was treated.

You got a friend like that?

I'll take a ban every time if I can come out of it with such a guy to walk side by side in friendship into the future with.

Sloww, thanks guy, you're a solid immovable rock in this OT mudslide.

	11-04-2003 18:57									#418
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I had the intent, but ran my mouth one extra time.
Michael was more than willing to oblige me.

	11-04-2003 19:03									#419
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It's the cornbread.