12-04-2003 05:24									#151
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I still don't like the idea of putting us in a position where all we have to attack a vet immortal with is two WCs, one of them a wounded elite that we would be extremely hesitent to use if the immortal has even two hit points left after a failed attack from the first.

The elite WC has 3 hp left, which I think would be adequate to handle the immortal, esp if its lost a hp or two from attacking a WC or being attacked by another WC

	12-04-2003 05:26									#152
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay The only units that could be in Dissidentville this turn are the ones GoW saw last turn. There could be others that are hidden but for practical purposes just as close, but if so, GoW can see them next turn if one of their galleys spends time on the tile 2 from the location of this turn's screenshot. Regarding moving swords from Hurricane, two vets, two regulars, or one of each?

ok

I would move 2 vets.

If we are rolling everything on the defense of Arashi, we need the extra hp, IMHO.

	12-04-2003 05:27									#153
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A harbor sounds good for multiple reasons, but 2 galleys are cool too. If we want to provide GoW with iron, even for 1 turn only, we need that harbor relatively soon, so we can't postpone it too much.

WC in O.G.: into Arashi, as backup for attacking the spear. Further I agree with not putting too many spears 9 from Arashi, if we have a road there next turn, I wouldn't move any. Otherwise, maybe 1. As to the WCs: I wouldn't move them too far away, they should be able to return to Arashi before the initial wave can reach grass. The elite is important to protect, however it's retreat chances aren't that bad, and we could use him to lure the immortal closer, instead of making him retreat onto the mountain or jungle. If he would get killed, it's too bad, but again that's one sure immortal less for Vox. I don't find him so important to move 2 other WCs out of circulation right now, but we can move 2 WCs so they can attack the immortal if he attacks our elite, and retreat after that, not risking counter attack.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Vox is doing exactly the same thing: offering an immortal, to be able to take out a WC. They know they currently have a number advantage, trading units 1 on 1 is good for them. We should try to avoid it, and get into a position where this can't go on indefinately. I don't think that moving 1, or 2 WCs on top of the elite one is going to do that, it will only move the front closer to Vox's reinforcements, and farther from our territory.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 05:33									#154
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel The elite WC has 3 hp left, which I think would be adequate to handle the immortal, esp if its lost a hp or two from attacking a WC or being attacked by another WC

At equal hit points, even on flat terrain, a WC has less than a 50-50 chance of defeating an immoral. And if the battle ends with each unit having one hit point left, the WC's chance of retreating disappears. So taking on a three-HP immortal with a three-HP elite WC would probably not be a good move, and even going after a 2-HP immortal with a 3-HP WC would be a serious risk.

	12-04-2003 05:34									#155
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO I don't think that moving 1, or 2 WCs on top of the elite one is going to do that, it will only move the front closer to Vox's reinforcements, and farther from our territory. DeepO

I don't think Vox would have reinforcements in the area, I would bet that they are all concentrated in D'ville.

We know they dropped 2 imms to the east to deal with our picket, one remains. I just can't see there being more than just that one immortal there. what good would backups do there? they can't make an attack on our cities using 3 immortals, at least effectively. If we can take out that immortal and only perhaps lose one WC, we will have effectively forced them to march south from d'ville. WC's good attack and movement will cover a lot of that side of the island.

	12-04-2003 05:36									#156
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Keep 1 Vet, move the regular up to replace the Warrior, and send 1 Vet and the Warrior to Sandstorm. Then if we see the Galley headed S next turn, we can move the Vet back and keep the Warrior headed to Arashi for upgrade.

I'm for protecting our Elite. If Vox really is only sending a handful of units, we may not get many chances at Leaders. If the Vet WC can't get the Immortal down to 1 HP, back off with the Elite.

	12-04-2003 05:37									#157
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay At equal hit points, even on flat terrain, a WC has less than a 50-50 chance of defeating an immoral. And if the battle ends with each unit having one hit point left, the WC's chance of retreating disappears. So taking on a three-HP immortal with a three-HP elite WC would probably not be a good move, and even going after a 2-HP immortal with a 3-HP WC would be a serious risk.

I don't mean to be obstinate, but we just attacked a three hp immortal with a four hp wc. I don't see much difference.

Again, I just like the idea of having that region, the region north of sandstorm and hurricane to be free of roving immortals. I will stop yapping about it now.

	12-04-2003 05:43									#158
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The road will finish at the end of two turns after this one, so it will be three turns after this one before we can use it.

I'd rather have three WCs in a position to take on that immortal just in case he gets lucky. If the spear moves in range for swords to attack him at all, we have three available for the job, albeit all regular. So we can outnumber both Voxian units three to one. Of course if the spear moves onto the unimproved tile, we can a WC is the only thing that could get to him right away.

Prepositioning the two WCs currently by Arashi next to the wounded elite would probably be a good move. They could get out of the way if they retreat, and they'll be able to get back a turn quicker. And if the first one wins, the second can still get back to Arashi in one turn.

Regarding spears, Vox can count spears on the mountain but not spears in the city. So if we want to convince Vox that going around the mountain is better than going through it, putting two spears on the mountain instead of one has something of an advantage.

	12-04-2003 05:46									#159
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I think 7hp's of WC is a good bet to kill 4hp's of Immortal.

	12-04-2003 05:46									#160
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I don't mean to be obstinate, but we just attacked a three hp immortal with a four hp wc. I don't see much difference.

First of all, we were lucky. But then again, we already lost a WC last turn. Further, that attack was in hope of triggering our GA, instead of risking a wounded elite, trying to get a leader. Each WC victory would have given us our GA (we have another one in reach), but there is only one elite on our continent.

That part I understand, however I'm not convinced on protecting him yet, certainly not with 2 WCs. But, I'm not part of the military scholia, and I'll gladly fold, I certainly see the advantages of doing it, I'm just not sure whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

If Vox is smart, they will move their immortal out of the way if they see 2 WCs... until they have backup (which can't be far away, even if not present there yet.)

DeepO

	12-04-2003 05:49									#161
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I don't mean to be obstinate, but we just attacked a three hp immortal with a four hp wc. I don't see much difference. Again, I just like the idea of having that region, the region north of sandstorm and hurricane to be free of roving immortals. I will stop yapping about it now.

I very much agree with wanting the region by Sandstorm free of immortals. I just think we'd have a better chance of doing that if we counterattack after Vox attacks the elite than if we protect the elite.

On the other hand, Aeson has a good point that with Vox's invasion force seeming to be a lot smaller than expected, we can probably afford to do more to protect elites. I guess I can go along with his preference to move the two vets onto the same tile with the elite, in which case the O.G. one goes to Arashi where a spearman can hide his presence unless and until Vox's spearman comes down off the mountains to play.

Nathan

	12-04-2003 05:52									#162
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If we want a shot at the immortal (if he really is one tile away from a mountain, as I assume), we should only put 1 WC on top of the elite, and 1 WC one tile closer to home. 3 WCs will certainly scare him away

DeepO

	12-04-2003 05:56									#163
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(1) With two WCs on the same tile with the elite, one is for protection and the other is for counterattack. Having the counterattacker on the same tile allows for the best possible speed getting to a barracks to heal if we protect the elite at all.

(2) If Vox moves Harry back to the mountain, at lest we succeed at protecting our elite with no deaths or injuries in the process. And any time Harry thinks about heading south, he'll have to think, "Are those war chariots waiting for me just out of my sight, or aren't they?" (I don't know whether Vox is smart enough to realize it, but a WC could duck in to see if Harry is in attack range and then duck right back out the same turn without Vox's seeing it and without placing itself in any danger.)

	12-04-2003 06:01									#164
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Well, as possible deterrent, that might work best. Getting the elite back is important, of course.

As to ducking in and out: that will show if he sentries... if he has the chance to do so, of course.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 06:03									#165
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I don't know that we'd actually keep a WC watching for him; we do need the things elsewhere, and once we have pikes, Harry will be less of a threat. But the possibility that we could, if Vox thinks of it, might make them a little more reluctant to move Harry back south.

	12-04-2003 06:19									#166
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So our moves are

1) Move two WCs to cover the elite.

2) Move the WC in O.G. to Arashi.

3) Build two galleys.

4) Move a vet swordsman and a regular warrior toward Arashi, leaving two vet swordsmen and a regular swordsman to guard Hurricane, with the regular taking our warrior's place on Iron Mountain.

5) Move two spears onto the mountain and one into Arashi.

6) Leave Hack where he is for one more turn?

Does that sound okay?

	12-04-2003 06:23									#167
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Oh, and we'd decided to go ahead and have the settler found another city in the northwestern desert and use the one-turn workers Cyclone will be building for our population boost needs?

	12-04-2003 06:24									#168
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okay by me, but I'm no general

DeepO

	12-04-2003 06:34									#169
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It looks to me as if if there's one thing our generals are good at, it's delegating authority.

	12-04-2003 06:39									#170
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Okay, I'm going ahead and playing the rest of the turn.

	12-04-2003 06:42									#171
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Nathan-

can you send an end of turn screen shot, or post online? thanks

	12-04-2003 06:46									#172
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Just for fun, I checked what would happen if I turned off luxury spending. Hurricane had three happy citizens instead of one. So it looks like war happiness is in effect, and the effect varies depending on the size of a city (e.g. size five and six cities have two happy).

	12-04-2003 06:50									#173
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Screenshots are going out now. I'll leave the turn open a few more minutes before I send it in case someone thinks of some last thing we need to do.

	12-04-2003 07:11									#174
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Turn sent.

	12-04-2003 07:13									#175
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Good job Nathan, thanks for the screenshots

	12-04-2003 07:19									#176
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Now I want the same demographic scores throughout the game, gottit!!!
-

Btw; what's up with lego?

	12-04-2003 15:59									#177
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Lego is just expanding peacefully at highest speed. Last turn, they probably build their 10th, or more likely 11th city. So they passed us again in terrory size.

But maybe that's not what you were referring to?

DeepO