12-04-2003 03:48									#121
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I'd rather have a Pike on the galley to just dump off on their Iron road. Once their Iron is gone, we stand to be in a position to just fish for Leaders.

EotS' first or second Pike would probably both be in time.

	12-04-2003 03:48									#122
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Let's send that galley up... empty. We don't have the spare forces, and any distraction of forces would be nice. If they call our bluff, and leave their territory undefended, so be it, but I doubt they will risk it. We wouldn't.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:48									#123
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X-posted... a pike sounds nice too

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:49									#124
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We can have two galleys complete next turn if we want them.

I'll be home in a few minutes so we can play the turn as soon as we decide what to do.

	12-04-2003 03:51									#125
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A chance to kill that Spear this next turn, on grassland. Instead of having to deal with the Spear staying on Mountains.

(if that GoW pic is right, it's not going ot matter either way, but the discussion is the fun thing. )

	12-04-2003 03:56									#126
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Let's send that galley up... empty. We don't have the spare forces, and any distraction of forces would be nice. If they call our bluff, and leave their territory undefended, so be it, but I doubt they will risk it. We wouldn't. DeepO

True. what it could do would force them to pop rush or build spears rather than immortals, which would be very nice

	12-04-2003 04:07									#127
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We lose a turn on our barracks and subsequent walls (or unit) if the spear comes down to where our swords can kill him. So I'm not so sure that's something I want to actively encourage. Also note that our odds of victory are higher after upgrading swordsmen to medieval infantry, which at least partially compensates for losing a chance to kill a spearman early.

	12-04-2003 04:13									#128
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Any idea what GoW is using that has them showing multiple units on a tile? I've never seen that before.

	12-04-2003 04:18									#129
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It's a graphics mod... forget the name.

	12-04-2003 04:20									#130
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If Vox has units 9-8 from the galleys in the picture, they could join the ones GoW sees and attack at the same time. The one on Grog's mountain can also attack at the same time. But if that happens, we should get warning next turn because they'll have to be on a tile GoW can see from 2 from its position at the time of this turn's screenshot.

	12-04-2003 04:21									#131
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Kind of obscure unit mod, wasn't it GF's own?

I'm not sure... I think one less spear is one unit won, and there is strong gain from taking him out in the open, instead of fortified on a mountain. And eventually, we are going to need to do that anyway. If it means we would lose a turn on our barracks, I think it acceptable, although a heavy price to pay. But I wouldn't be surprised if they would go for the unroaded tile instead, as far from Arashi as possible.

What are we going to do with the warrior currently on the iron source? Does he still need to get to a barracks asap? Or can he scout / obstruct Voxian forces?

DeepO

	12-04-2003 04:22									#132
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Good point about the production.

	12-04-2003 04:23									#133
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

BTW, can we compensate beforehand, by eg a small intermediate rush on those barracks (horseman or so)?

DeepO

	12-04-2003 04:24									#134
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Or by losing 1 food, and working an extra forest instead of grass?

DeepO

	12-04-2003 04:25									#135
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Any idea what GoW is using that has them showing multiple units on a tile? I've never seen that before.

Nathan-


edit: better link

I've never tried the mod, but it looks alright.


edit: better link

	12-04-2003 04:28									#136
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We're exactly ten shields from getting the barracks, and our net production is exactly ten shields. No dice there.

If the spear goes on the unroaded tile, he's out of our swordsmen's range. The swordsmen are in Tempest and can reach both mined grasslands if the spearman tries to pillage but can't get to the unimproved one. That possible move is my original main reason for wanting to keep Monsoon looking like we intend to defend it.

	12-04-2003 04:29									#137
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If we move our Warrior 2, and Monsoon's Spear onto the other mine we guarantee (or close to it) that they can't cut off our production tiles. We can move the spear back into Monsoon the next turn if they move 4, and cover up the forest with one of our Swords (should still be able to get back to Arashi before it's needed).

That will just delay their Spear (unless we want to hit it with the WC), but it might give us some extra insight as to where they are headed.

	12-04-2003 04:33									#138
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Where would the WC in Olibanum Gale go to? I thought he went to Arashi, so he could at least get to the spear next turn.

If you have exactly 10 shields left (so no rushing), could you move to work another forest, or are you using both of them, and the hill goes to Tempest? If you have a forest left, move one of the grass workers on there, and move the warrior onto the other grass, and the spear won't cost us any production. He won't attack the warrior.

He might try to pillage even without being lured to Monsoon...

DeepO

	12-04-2003 04:37									#139
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Good thought, DeepO. I can guarantee barracks completion irrespective of what Vox does by running a one-food-per-turn deficit (just took some minor reshuffling in Tempest to free up a hill), and that's the right move whether we leave Monsoon open or not.

Actually, if we really want to play games with Vox, we can leave Monsoon open this turn and then move a spear back in the next.

In conjunction with this, we need to decide what to do with Hack. If we move him onto the unimproved grassland, that would force Vox to either attack him or move into striking range, but I'm not sure I like the idea of letting a veteran spear attack a regular potential medieval infantry.The other option would be to leave Hack where he is this turn and hope Vox lets us take out their vet spearman next turn.

, that would force the spear into striking range

	12-04-2003 04:38									#140
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The mod is very nice at first, but gets annoying after a while, from the comments I read, it works very well for things as plains and stuff, since there on the map the whole time.
-

	12-04-2003 04:45									#141
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Actually, on further thought, I had to do a bit more shuffling. I had to assign Sandstorm and Tempest to work a combination of flood plains that ensured that Arashi's laborer can't move to a flood plains if he gets bumped off a grassland. But with no flood plains available, if Vox bumps the worker off one mined grassland, the laborer should go to the other.

	12-04-2003 04:52									#142
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Cool, so now we don't need forces on that road

As to Hank: Don't we need him on the iron, if we want to spot all the mountains ourselves, instead of relying on GoW? In that case, I'd leave him where he is for now. Otherwise, I'd move him towards Arashi. I never risk spears to take out warriors, certainly not if that leaves a sole spear on an enemy road. I doubt they would do it.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 05:00									#143
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From an advance warning perspective, we're better off leaving Hack where he is another turn. So we're agreed that we uncover Monsoon and dare Vox to take a shot?

Remaining outstanding questions:

1) Reinforce the elite WC or preposition for a counterattack?

2) If the latter, position our WC currently in O.G. to go after the immortal if he survives the first two attacks, or to help deal with the Voxian spearman?

3) Do we want to switch Sufa to a galley, which would complete this turn?

4) What forces do we want to move from Hurricane toward the Arashi front?

5) What am I not thinking of?

Also, I'm thinking in terms of stationing two spearmen on the mountain by Arashi and one in Arashi itself for the moment. Does that sound good?

	12-04-2003 05:03									#144
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One more: How many, if any, WCs do we want to switch over to catapults?

	12-04-2003 05:07									#145
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By the way, one possible factor that might affect the size of Vox's invasion forces is if they don't dare hit us with everything they have for fear that Bobian galleys might strike from behind. If we can use essentially our entire military against them while they don't dare use their full power against us...

	12-04-2003 05:07									#146
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My votes

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Remaining outstanding questions: 1) Reinforce the elite WC or preposition for a counterattack?

reinforce elite

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay 2) If the latter, position our WC currently in O.G. to go after the immortal if he survives the first two attacks, or to help deal with the Voxian spearman?

sure

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay 3) Do we want to switch Sufa to a galley, which would complete this turn?

yes, one galley on each side would certainly make me feel more comfortable about suprise landings.

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay 4) What forces do we want to move from Hurricane toward the Arashi front?

2 swords.

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Also, I'm thinking in terms of stationing two spearmen on the mountain by Arashi and one in Arashi itself for the moment. Does that sound good?

yes

	12-04-2003 05:11									#147
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I would say none. The catapults was me thinking about 20 Immortals where it becomes a war of attrition. We don't really need them now until we make our offensive against their cities (more to just protect our stacks from losing more HP's than they should than to actually hurt units in the cities). In any case, it would be best to get the fast movers built first, as they can get to the front in time to help with the initial invasion.

If we move Hack onto the road, and move the spear to protect him, then we can get him to a Barracks next turn to upgrade.

Another galley would be nice, but perhaps a Harbor in Sufa is going to serve us best? We will stand to make a good deal with Iron to GoW, and also opens up luxury trades. (which won't make a whole lot of difference until we have marketplaces... but we could add them into tech deals and for gpt, ect.)

Either the Harbor or Galley is fine with me. 2 Galleys could safely transport 2 units up to Vox's Iron. 2 Pikes onto a Jungle road will almost surely be able to cut it off.

	12-04-2003 05:18									#148
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I'm not so sure, wouldn't a group to the 6 of Eli be hidden from grog? That would only be, if I am looking correctly, 6 squares from d'ville. I think this group are the reserves, I think the main force is already in D'ville. But again, this is speculation, we will know for certain when we see the next turn, if they move on us.

I posted this earlier. Could someone tell me that I'm wrong, that there couldn't already be a large force in d'ville? large being, 10 or more immortals? Please tell me that my math is off on the squares.

	12-04-2003 05:19									#149
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I still don't like the idea of putting us in a position where all we have to attack a vet immortal with is two WCs, one of them a wounded elite that we would be extremely hesitent to use if the immortal has even two hit points left after a failed attack from the first.

	12-04-2003 05:23									#150
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The only units that could be in Dissidentville this turn are the ones GoW saw last turn. There could be others that are hidden but for practical purposes just as close, but if so, GoW can see them next turn if one of their galleys spends time on the tile 2 from the location of this turn's screenshot.

Regarding moving swords from Hurricane, two vets, two regulars, or one of each?