12-04-2003 02:53									#91
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DeepO, dealing with an attack on Monsoon with WCs is not an option if we're going after Vox's eastern immortal. Monsoon's being on a mountain means that crossing the river into it costs our WCs both their movement points. (If we go with the technique of moving both vet WCs in the area onto the same tile with the elite, which is not a plan I like, we could keep our western WC on the western side of the river to take a shot at the spearman if he moves down from the mountain.)

	12-04-2003 03:01									#92
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Theseus, with Feudalism coming in two turns, and if I remember right that builds switch between the time science is completed and the time building is done, we can't finish any swordsmen before we get Feudalism. That's the price we pay for being able to upgrade earlier. Alternatively, we could back off research to a three-turn pace but that would mean four turns before spears could upgrade to pikes and be back on the mountain - five if we take the upgrade in two stages so we have at least one spear on the mountain at all times.

If Vox has a big enough stack, keeping them from hitting Arashi will not be possible. But if they have to go around fortified pikemen on a mountain to get to the city, and then have to face those same fortified pikemen behind city walls on a hill if they want to take the city, that could break a stack that we could merely damage on its way in. That's why I want walls.

	12-04-2003 03:04									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Consider some poprushing.

Euh, Theseus, I know you have had better things to spend your time on than GS internal politics, but we have been a republic for many years now

Happiness in this game: that would be strange, but a possible explanation. I didn't notice it in the Euro-PBEM (which I'm currently sitting on, but I figured one war at a time would be enough tension), but I just assumed no WW meant no defender bonus either. That would be a good thing to know, though... another one of those small features that only gets discovered in this game

Monsoon: I agree it is already lost, however I don't want to give it away either. If it can distract a large stack of immortals for 1 turn: good. However, we are going to need to deal with that spear anyway, if he would decide to try to pillage some improvements, so we can't move too many WCs out of reach. Further, we also can't allow that spear to be at 9 from Monsoon, and fortify there, as it would create a path for immortals, protected.

As we're going to need some WCs there anyway, I wouldn't mind to set the trap the first time too, and see if we can catch ourselves a spear. If Vox sees 2 possible WC attacks on their immortal, if it would decide to try to kill one WC, they would normally retreat their unit. At which we time we have accomplished nothing, but moved 2 WCs out of position to protect Monsoon.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:08									#94
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Normally, Vox could have moved into view with their stack if they wanted to, no? I wonder why they are delaying the war by a turn, would they be waiting for some reinforcements, (eg the GoW 'invaders'), or would not go down the spine?

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:11									#95
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We have three regular swords upgraded from warriors in Tempest this turn. I'm thinking those can protect against pillaging but not against a move across the unimproved grassland to go for Monsoon (f we're inclined to risk them), but I don't have the map in front of me to doublecheck.

	12-04-2003 03:12									#96
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My calculations are that they could not be past Dissidentville with their main stack yet, just in it. So it's to be expected that we don't see their stack.

	12-04-2003 03:17									#97
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quote: Keep in mind that catapults are wheeled, so we'll really just have one mountain tile in what we expect to be the main theater of operations that we can bombard Vox from without having cats and their defenders on less defensible terrain.

We'll have Arashi itself, which is the same defense with a city wall as a Mountain. Also we will have the next mountain in the chain with a road on it should Arashi fall to continue fighting from. Tempest can have a Wall if it looks like it will get to that, giving us good coverage of the entire range of our weakest link.

quote: I'd rather not invite Vox to walk into it with a single spearman.

We'll have a WC and 2 Reg Swords that can hit it if they move that Spear onto the road. No chance for a Vox counterattack.

	12-04-2003 03:18									#98
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Here's what GhengisFarb sent.

	12-04-2003 03:23									#99
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They are kidding right? 3 Immortals and 2 Spears?

	12-04-2003 03:23									#100
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That is not the main attack force, is it?

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:25									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Where is it?

Well, you gave him the Softhome address, and there he sent it.

	12-04-2003 03:25									#102
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Thanks Ralph

The question is, is that the second wave, or are they waiting in D'ville for that crew? I would say the former, due to the prescence of the spear.

(Did anyone else check the geography against our screenshots???looked good to me)

	12-04-2003 03:26									#103
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Wonder what that worker is doing? ARe they going to build a road to us before attacking

	12-04-2003 03:26									#104
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That's the first 'wave' that will be in Dissidentville right now (or gone off to the E).

	12-04-2003 03:28									#105
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Well, I guess we shall soon see what happens. Luckily we have 3 or 4 turns to react to them.

(wonder what they think about that GoW galley?)

	12-04-2003 03:28									#106
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No other troops could have made it to Dissidentville by now. Grog's early warning guarantees it.

GoW is a slight risk to be misleading us, but we will know in 2 turns if the information they are feeding is correct or not. At that point we can choose to go offensive or defensive mode.

	12-04-2003 03:28									#107
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Actually, we should have thought this would happen, this is useless information. The attack force has just left sight, and won't be spotted again until they moved onto the spines. They are currently blocked from sight by the mountain, and will be gone before the galley can move. It could still have moved later though (at least 1 MP remaining on that galley), I hope Gow has another picture to send.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:30									#108
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This also explains why we have not seen them on the sines yet: that spear and 3 immortals are 1 tile behind the main force, so can only reach the spines next turn. So, the rest has just waited...

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:31									#109
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Scratch those last 2 comments, Grog should have spotted them earlier

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:31									#110
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1 of the sentry Warriors would have made it into Dissidentville this turn for upgrade. The other is still a turn behind.

	12-04-2003 03:34									#111
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I didn't see the image in the mailbox, thanks for posting it Sir Ralph.

	12-04-2003 03:34									#112
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO Scratch those last 2 comments, Grog should have spotted them earlier DeepO

I'm not so sure, wouldn't a group to the 6 of Eli be hidden from grog? That would only be, if I am looking correctly, 6 squares from d'ville.

I think this group are the reserves, I think the main force is already in D'ville.

But again, this is speculation, we will know for certain when we see the next turn, if they move on us.

	12-04-2003 03:34									#113
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The swords don't work this turn if Vox moves the spear onto the unimproved grassland between the mountains and Monsoon.

And I just don't see that much chance of Vox's bypassing Arashi. That's something the AI does, but it's hard to imagine even a marginally competent human player making that mistake - especially if he knows cats will be pounding him along the way. And if Vox does bypass Arashi, consider what WCs could do attacking and then retreating out of range to heal if we can keep Vox off the mountains. Even WCs that retreat after doing a hit point or two of damage would accomplish about as much as a cat can be expected to, and while some WCs would die, more would win outright.

In any case, building a plan around what happens if the enemy does something stupid does not seem like a good idea. Time, roads, and the ability to heal battle damage are all on our side if Vox tries to bypass Arashi. So I think it's best to gear our deployment toward defending Arashi, and if Vox tries to go around that defense, we can take advantage of their foolishness without needing cats.

	12-04-2003 03:35									#114
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We can use our Warrior to block that move if we want to.

	12-04-2003 03:37									#115
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GoW is before Vox in team order, right? I assumed that this picture was taken right after we sent last turn, so that immortal on the mountain is still eliminator. If so, we should still need to see Vox's troops. Otherwise, they have passed already.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:37									#116
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay The swords don't work this turn if Vox moves the spear onto the unimproved grassland between the mountains and Monsoon. And I just don't see that much chance of Vox's bypassing Arashi. That's something the AI does, but it's hard to imagine even a marginally competent human player making that mistake - especially if he knows cats will be pounding him along the way. And if Vox does bypass Arashi, consider what WCs could do attacking and then retreating out of range to heal if we can keep Vox off the mountains. Even WCs that retreat after doing a hit point or two of damage would accomplish about as much as a cat can be expected to, and while some WCs would die, more would win outright. In any case, building a plan around what happens if the enemy does something stupid does not seem like a good idea. Time, roads, and the ability to heal battle damage are all on our side if Vox tries to bypass Arashi. So I think it's best to gear our deployment toward defending Arashi, and if Vox tries to go around that defense, we can take advantage of their foolishness without needing cats.

I agree with Nathan above.

I do think cats would help the defense of Arashi nicely.

	12-04-2003 03:41									#117
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We don't lose anythign by leaving Monsoon open. Our forces aren't out of place... they are just in place a turn earlier.

Sure Vox probably won't go for it with more than a Spear. So we don't need to defend it. If their Spear goes for it, kill the Spear (we can get our Spear back into Monsoon if they send it W anyways). That's one less Spear.

	12-04-2003 03:42									#118
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel (wonder what they think about that GoW galley?)

Let's hope that they fear that it is carrying troops and leave two immortals to take care of GoW's troops as soon as they land.

	12-04-2003 03:45									#119
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Can we send the save soon, I'm getting anxious to see what happens next.


Oh, is Typhoon still building a galley? Could we spare a pair of swords to go north to raid the homeland of vox? I know, I know, probably not. But after the next turn, we will have a good idea of their force and what we need in defense, perhaps after the initial repulsion then.

	12-04-2003 03:47									#120
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What I'm hoping is that if we leave our spear in Monsoon as long as possible, Vox will deploy immortals in a direction that's good for taking Monsoon but bad for taking Arashi. That buys us time, and depending on what forces Vox has that we don't see, time could be something very valuable.

The question is, what advantage do we gain by abandoning Monsoon sooner rather than later?