14-04-2003 03:03									#211
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exactly. I am amazed at people saying "I won't loot, no way".

I've said it once, and I'd say it again. I'd probably loot.

	14-04-2003 03:08									#212
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quote: Obviously, we were totally unprepared for the speed of the regime's collapse across the whole country.

amen

but watch out. you might be called unpatriotic

	14-04-2003 13:54									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Robin hood stole from an unjust government that extracted wealth without consent from the people and gave it to the poor.

You could call Robin Hood's actions justice - but not any of those looters in Iraq.

	14-04-2003 13:55									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel exactly. I am amazed at people saying "I won't loot, no way". I've said it once, and I'd say it again. I'd probably loot.

Yeah, you're a meanie.

But even you won't loot from museums, hospitals, embassies, aid agencies, and the like. Yes?

	14-04-2003 14:27									#215
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*whistles*

I would have no problem with looting embassies, actually. some amazingly interesting stuff.

I'd also loot electronics shops, and army depots.

I was amazed that they didn't leave any security at any of the embassies. Now, the US has got all the stuff. ( and you can bet they did! )

	14-04-2003 14:49									#216
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I reckon they locked away all the sensitive stuff in safes, with incendiary traps that go off if people try to pick the locks.

	14-04-2003 17:25									#217
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On topic (of sorts):
To the degree we can trust reports about the situation in Bagdad seems better but not good enough for a carneval. To quote bbc-website; "Although some calm is returning to parts of Baghdad, in other districts looting and gunfire continue." So the development seems somewhat ambiguous. Hopefully the Iraqi police can do something about that without turning into criminals themselves.

	14-04-2003 18:03									#218
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Yes, all the Coalition's fault.
The good news? Civil Servants of Iraq considering going back to work.
Well, you know. Whenever you can work it into your schedule.

	14-04-2003 18:26									#219
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Looting is not just all play, it's hard work and long hours too you know.

	14-04-2003 18:33									#220
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quote: reckon they locked away all the sensitive stuff in safes, with incendiary traps that go off if people try to pick the locks.

Liquid Nitrogen.

	14-04-2003 18:34									#221
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Lets see, would you have gone to work in the middle of the Rodney King riots? Not me.

I can't say I would loot unless I was destitute, then only food and stuff or possibly some evil rich dude's house. If I had anything at all I'd be too busy staying at home protecting my stuff.

	14-04-2003 18:35									#222
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG 1) revenge is ok? 2) the problem is not what motivates looting(other than the refusion of US troops to do anything about it). the problem is the results of looting(you know people dieing, properties stolen, other insignifant stuff compared to FREEDOM)

Actually they've had standing orders to prevent looting when they see it, but, there just isn't enough soldiers to police every where at once and still fight Saddam's facists.

Let's face it this sort of stuff happens in every war and it isn't any worse then what happened in Afghanistan when the Taliban fell or Chechnya when the Russians lost the first war or during the Iranian Revolution.

	14-04-2003 19:23									#223
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Actually they had standing orders to do nothing of the sort. In many cases troops watched as looting happened.

	14-04-2003 19:28									#224
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Actually, starting a post with the word 'actually' actually makes it more true.

	14-04-2003 19:37									#225
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Actually its a good way to start a factual response to an untrue statement, however the lack of a link or anything to substantiate the claim makes me suspect, point taken.

quote: With many Baghdad residents demanding U.S. troops restore order, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, Central Command spokesman, said that the military is helping to rebuild the civil administration but expects the Iraqis themselves to assume responsibility for law and order. "At no time do we really see becoming a police force," Brooks said. He suggested the lawlessness will ease with the rebuilding of the civil authority. "We have to be patient over that," Brooks said. "We are not exercising the same kind of grip over the population that the regime did. That's by design." U.S. commander Gen. Tommy Franks issued new rules of behavior Friday for American forces in Baghdad now that the Iraqi capital is under U.S. control. Under the rules, troops are forbidden to use deadly force to prevent looting. They should allow government workers to go to their jobs. Hospitals, businesses and mosques should remain open. Schools should reopen and record attendance.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaki..._03looting.html

	14-04-2003 19:53									#226
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Actually, this is just another chance to whine about Coalition troops.

"Forget that sniper, Joe; just stop the looting".

	14-04-2003 20:01									#227
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I think our troops did an amazing job, Saddam fell more rapidly then I would have expected and its quite obvious that there was a real attempt to keep civilian casualties to a minimum in the whole affair. That being said, the actual fight was never what concerned me about the war but what came after.

"Forget that sniper, Joe; just stop the looting".

Wouldn't it have been great if they had actually brought enough troops with them to do both?

	14-04-2003 20:09									#228
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Not their job entirely.
Now the vigilante's have the right idea.


And yes, Coalition troops did an overall outstanding job.

	14-04-2003 20:27									#229
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Whether or not its the coalition troops' job its the coalition's job to enforce law and order in occupied territory and they weren't ready for the job. In the absence of any other authorities it is the troops job to enforce this until another remedy is found.

	14-04-2003 21:14									#230
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U.S., Iraqis Begin Joint Baghdad Patrols
1 hour, 42 minutes ago

By HAMZA HENDAWI, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD, Iraq - With looting already easing in Baghdad on Monday, Iraqis and U.S. troops began jointly patrolling the streets to quell the lawlessness that has engulfed the capital since the collapse of Saddam Hussein (news - web sites)'s regime, the American military said.
Iraqis started accompanying troops late Sunday or early Monday, said Navy Capt. Frank Thorp, a U.S. Central Command spokesman. In addition, Iraqis have also launched neighborhood watch programs and Iraqi civil leaders are emerging to maintain order, he said.


"We're beginning to see a downward trend in looting," he said.


On Monday morning, several hundred Iraqi police officers in plainclothes and uniform reported to the Iraqi police academy in response to a coalition call for Iraqis to take part in joint patrols to restore order. The officers registered upon entering the academy, as Marine sentries watched

	14-04-2003 21:23									#231
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quote: Originally posted by gsmoove23 Whether or not its the coalition troops' job its the coalition's job to enforce law and order in occupied territory and they weren't ready for the job. In the absence of any other authorities it is the troops job to enforce this until another remedy is found.

gsmoove, looking back, as I said before, I do not believe that Franks had planned for a total collapse of government authority across the country. We certainly did not have enough troops in country to both fight the war and to police the cities. We needed the local police.

But when Saddam's regime fell, every form of government vanished: police, local government, utility workers ...everything. I don't think anyone had planned on the collapse being so great. As an example of this, I never once saw a single post in this forum predicting such a total collapse of government.

Something similar happened, I believe, with the collapse of Nazi Germany. In order to prevent a complete dissaster, we employed the current government to a great extent - even though it included Nazi's. We did this of necessity.

We apparently are going to repeat history. Some of the new government are going to be Ba'ath party members. We have no choice but to use them.

	14-04-2003 21:38									#232
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Ned, how can you say that. The administration and pro-war people have been saying that Saddam's regime is a house of cards for years! I've gotta admit even I was thinking Saddam might not be able to hold it together for more then a couple of weeks once the war started. Chaos is one of the things pro-war people absolutely counted on.

	14-04-2003 21:41									#233
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They'll get it under control themselves, it's their country now.

	14-04-2003 21:41									#234
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It turns out the National Library has fallen victim to looters as well. Right across the street from the Defense Ministry which has survived, being well protected by US forces.

	14-04-2003 21:56									#235
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I can see the outcry at ACS, had Coalition troops blown away Iraqi citizens caught up in looting.

Forget that, bub.

	14-04-2003 21:56									#236
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quote: Actually they've had standing orders to prevent looting when they see it

i saw (with my own eyes) on many occassions in reports, looters running away with stuff in front of US soldiers who just dazed off under the hot bagdad sun

	14-04-2003 21:59									#237
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quote: I don't think anyone had planned on the collapse being so great. As an example of this, I never once saw a single post in this forum predicting such a total collapse of government

are you comparing the high command of the largest military force in history with the posters of apolyton?

	14-04-2003 22:01									#238
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Whine, whimper, and complain.

The Macedonian Creed.

	14-04-2003 22:08									#239
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US troops haven't had to blow away any civilians at the buildings they have protected. May not be to hard after all.

	18-04-2003 02:42									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer They'll get it under control themselves, it's their country now.

So nobody's dancing anymore?

Nice way of ducking responsibility - hey, we invaded and got our national hardon taken care of, but cleaning up the mess is your problem, honey.

BTW, good job in Mosul of shooting at cops and a crowd because the cops fired at some looters. I guess they're supposed to "get it under control themselves" without weapons, or without being in range of any US forces, or wearing pink miniskirts with bunny ears so they're easily recognized by US forces still looking for those dancing, celebrating snipers?