13-04-2003 23:16									#31
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Yes, sir. I will.

	13-04-2003 23:21									#32
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I'm a patriot... and Spiffor is right, 'supporting its authority' means that you support the governmental structure, not any specific administration. Even under the Clinton administration, I could say I supported my country's authority.

	13-04-2003 23:21									#33
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Of course I'm a patriot, which is exactly why I oppose the actions of the current administration.

	13-04-2003 23:27									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'm a patriot... and Spiffor is right, 'supporting its authority' means that you support the governmental structure, not any specific administration. Even under the Clinton administration, I could say I supported my country's authority.

True.
One should know, not just hope, that the Leaders have information not always shared immediately, due to security concerns.

No different than a job.
The Boss says we do something, we do it.
He/She doesn't have the time always to explain right then, "WHY".
You don't like that atmosphere, you can go to another country. I mean, job.

	13-04-2003 23:31									#35
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I, too, am a patriot. As others have pointed out, patriotism is much, much more than necessarily supporting the actions of a particular administration.

Patriotism is voting. Patriotism is taking part in your community. Patriotism is keeping well-informed of local, state, national and international events. Patriotism is achieving a good education. Patriotism is all of those things and so much more.

Gatekeeper

	13-04-2003 23:32									#36
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I'm a patriot for all three countries:

India, Russia, and America.

	13-04-2003 23:37									#37
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand No different than a job. The Boss says we do something, we do it. He/She doesn't have the time always to explain right then, "WHY". You don't like that atmosphere, you can go to another country. I mean, job.

This has nothing to do with patriotism. If you love your job, but hate this atmosphere, you could try to change this abusive leadership (by changing the leader or forcing him to change his attitude), in order to continue loving this job.

	13-04-2003 23:39									#38
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And this is different than voting to change things, how?

	13-04-2003 23:43									#39
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Sloww :
This is no different. You seemed to think the only answer to a painful climate was to leave.

	13-04-2003 23:45									#40
	Re: Patriots, Please Identify Yourselves. Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand : one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests

...but not at all costs. It depends a lot how the authority is acting, what those interests are etc, etc. For instance, I think one could say that Iraqis who didnīt fight for Saddam were patriotic, despite they acted against the authority (because not supporting the authority in this case was better for the country).

	13-04-2003 23:48									#41
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I guess I could fit under the definition Sloww provided.

	13-04-2003 23:49									#42
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yah the support ur troops propaganda thrown at the anti war protestors by the "patriots" is a lil disconcerting. amazingly it worked so well that every single anti war statement has to be prefaced now by "but I support the troops."

tho I must confess some of the anti war protestors are entirely disconcerting.

	13-04-2003 23:54									#43
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Patriot? Sloww baby, self-identification is one of the most confusing and long thought out question I've ever had to ask myself. You don't have any idea how tricky the question of "What am I" is, forget this patriot stuff.

	13-04-2003 23:58									#44
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I don't fit in Sloww's definition though. As I said in my first post of this thread, I love my country, accept its authority, and support its values.
I do not support my country's interests over everything else. I would completely disagree with an imperialistic policy even if it was good for France's interests.

BTW, if I am a "patriot" despite not supporting my countries' interest in any circumstances, I'm also a European patriot, because I love Europe, I would accept EU's authority on me, and I support EU's values.

	14-04-2003 00:03									#45
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Many people in the US who think they are patriots are among the most anti-American people I've ever known. They care nothing for the spirit of America, only the form. Rather than protect what is fundimental and special about our country, they decry difference and demand obedience. If these are patriots, I am a traitor and proud of it.

I pledge alleigance to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, not the government or some stupid flag.

	14-04-2003 00:03									#46
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quote: One entry found for jingoism. Main Entry: jin·go·ism Pronunciation: 'ji[ng]-(")gO-"i-z&m Function: noun Date: 1878 : extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy - jin·go·ist /-ist/ noun or adjective - jin·go·is·tic /"ji[ng]-gO-'is-tik/ adjective - jin·go·is·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb

I'm a patriot... others, well...

	14-04-2003 00:23									#47
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I'm patriotic towards Apolyton, which is why I distrust Ming.

	14-04-2003 00:25									#48
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A much better definition:

pa·tri·ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ptr-t, -t)
n.
One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.

	14-04-2003 00:30									#49
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quote: I pledge alleigance to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, not the government or some stupid flag.

Like .... rights?

	14-04-2003 00:31									#50
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Chegitz

Oh, and Tass, it's indeed a better definition. It is possible to be patriot while loathing your government structure. I'm sure many Iraqis can prove it.

	14-04-2003 00:32									#51
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Spiffor: and Americans

	14-04-2003 00:39									#52
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Sava :
I'm sure most Americans, even on this forum, believe in their democracy despite loathing their current leaders. I'm not sure many would cheer if an invading army came to put a "regime change"

	14-04-2003 00:41									#53
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Well, in some warped scenario:

If Bush were to proclaim himself president for life, I would welcome outside help to rid our country of his filth if we were unable to do it by ourselves. But I wouldn't want a massive invasion.

	14-04-2003 00:46									#55
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I'm not a patriot. I have no feeling of allegiance to my country.

What I have is an admiration for the history that has shaped how we live now, and the institutions that allow me to enjoy the standard of living I enjoy today. I don't care what country that may be.

	14-04-2003 00:49									#56
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I am not a "Patriot", as a flag waver etc. But I feel a part of this place, and I am grateful for all the things it has done for me.

	14-04-2003 01:19									#57
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Big Crunch and Che. WTF are you doing here?
Bye. Adios.

Neither of you are patriots. At best, you might be anarchists.

Sorry. Your comments are not welcome here.

NEXT?

	14-04-2003 01:22									#58
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Sorry, I'm more of a patriot than you'll ever be.

	14-04-2003 01:23									#59
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I think Che appreciates and stands for freedom and democracy more than many self-proclaimed "patriots".

	14-04-2003 01:29									#60
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**** the state.