14-04-2003 01:30									#61
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A true patriot respects the principles his country was founded on, including the right to freely speak one's mind. Che and the rest are very welcome here.

	14-04-2003 01:31									#62
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Sava, you asked that I not communicate with you.
I accepted your request.
One more word from you, and that is forfeit.

Che? In your wildest dreams.

	14-04-2003 01:35									#63
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That's okay Slowwy, you can discuss with me any relevant on-topic issue. Direct insults to a brick wall please, k thanks.

I don't recall directing any post to you anyways.

ajbera: Patriotism isn't supporting the name on the door, or the flag in the air. Patriotism is the support of the ideals and principles the country was founded on. When a corrupt government goes against those ideals, a patriot protests. Blind faith != patriotism... Blind faith = jingoism

	14-04-2003 01:36									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor What does "splitting hairs" mean ?

Arguing distinctions which are so small that they no longer make a difference.

	14-04-2003 01:36									#65
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Sloww...

what makes you the judge of what is and what what is not patriotic?
did someone die and make you the supreme arbiter of the american way?

the very basis of the United States of America is its Declaration of Independence and its Constitution; and if Che firmly believes in it, and will support it until his expiration, he is as much of a patriot as you.

patriotism is not mindless flagwaving. patriotism is not blindly supporting your leaders. patriotism is not trusting your superiors simply because they tell you they're right.
that's nationalism.

patriotism is holding true to the institutions that make your nation great--in this case, what makes our nation great is the fact that we have the Constitution, the Declaration, the Federal system, voting, and almost limitless freedom and the rights (AND RESPONSIBILITIES) to use them.

i believe you feel that you are a patriot, and i also believe that you do exactly those things i detailed in the latter paragraph. i believe che does so as well; thus, you are both patriots, even if you disagree on many of your basic political principles.

that's what makes this country so great. to tell him or to get out because he's "not a patriot" by your definition is as disingenuous as to wipe out our bill of rights in the name of national security.

	14-04-2003 01:37									#66
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I am. Hell, Laura and I have copies of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence framed and hanging on our wall.

	14-04-2003 01:41									#67
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JohnT... good documents to rely on.

	14-04-2003 01:42									#68
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I'm not a patriot, and I am suspicious of anyone that is, since I regard it to be the same thing as nationalism.

	14-04-2003 01:48									#69
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Hell, Laura and I have copies of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence framed and hanging on our wall.

Hell has a copy of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence framed and hanging on the wall??? That should improve the atmosphere down there remarkably.

(Sorry about the cheap shot, JohnT. Good idea, actually.)

	14-04-2003 01:48									#70
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Thanks Zkribbler

	14-04-2003 01:48									#71
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I hate this country. I pay my taxes. I abide by the legal boundaries set by the government, so that I can expect the benefits provided by the government.

Thats good enough for me. And thats all I expect of others.

	14-04-2003 01:50									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Hell has a copy of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence framed and hanging on the wall??? That should improve the atmosphere down there remarkably. (Sorry about the cheap shot, JohnT. Good idea, actually.)

That's OK... if we can't laugh at our own expense, then life isn't worth living.

(btw, they look really nice... but then, we didn't go cheap on the frames).

	14-04-2003 01:55									#73
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I'm a patriot in that I love the general values set forth by the US Constitution - that is, individual freedom is paramount. That's probably the only way I could be considered a patriot, though.

	14-04-2003 01:58									#74
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Taxation is in the Constitution, Floyd.

	14-04-2003 01:59									#75
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I never said the Constitution was 100% right. I just said that in general, I support the values in the Constitution.

	14-04-2003 01:59									#76
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individual freedom above all else is a convenient modern interpretation of the constitution. not saying I dont like it. but historically speaking it'd be hard to argue that america has held individual freedoms above all else, or that the ppl who wrote the constitution were concerned about the level of libertarian freedoms that modern societies seem to want.

	14-04-2003 02:02									#77
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quote: Originally posted by David Floyd I never said the Constitution was 100% right. I just said that in general, I support the values in the Constitution.

The power to tax is probably the most powerful part of the Consitution. A government without the power to protect the people isn't much of a government.

	14-04-2003 02:11									#78
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Edited by Ming...

Slow... just CHILL

Last edited by Ming on 14-04-2003 at 02:20

	14-04-2003 02:19									#79
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I am a patriotic centrist (to centre right), and a big populist.

	14-04-2003 02:41									#80
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Sloww, just a question, and I'm not rippin' you or anything, but are you even capable of arguing using just logic and reason, without letting emotion taint your arguments? Your statements will carry a hell of a lot more weight if made without anger, disgust, derision, etc. Cold, unemotional logic, brother... it works.

	14-04-2003 02:47									#81
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In response to this rather inane thread, I will refer Sloww to my signature, and let him decide whether or not I fit his definition of "patriot."

	14-04-2003 03:00									#82
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My eyes are a bit tired, and now, instead of "patriot", I see the word "parrot"

	14-04-2003 03:07									#84
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I wonder if the phrase, "Polly want a cracker?" is really an ethnic slur?

	14-04-2003 03:10									#85
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In all seriousness.
Seen a lot of remarks from people with whom I don't agree, but this is America, where I sit.
If Illinois Nazi's have a right, so do the people here.

Hopefully, it will never have to be seen if you're neutered, though.

	14-04-2003 03:15									#86
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But I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate to buy us all tickets to Cuba.

C'mon Slowwy this is all in good fun. If you take everything here serious, you won't ever have fun! This is America, and despite our political differences I'd still die to protect the freedom for you to disagree with me.

	14-04-2003 03:27									#87
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Since it appears that this thread is getting overly hostile:

BOW DOWN TO YOUR GOD:

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	14-04-2003 03:29									#88
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Don't worry Tas... if your picture doesn't chill people off... I have another way that I know will work

	14-04-2003 03:32									#89
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Tass, I'll get that cat yet.
When I do....

	14-04-2003 03:46									#90
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MEOW!

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