16-04-2003 09:43									#31
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Darn. I saw it as 4 pips in the shot. My bad.

Late night last night and sick today.

	16-04-2003 23:34									#32
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It seems like we haven't heard anything from any other civs for the past couple days, not since the lego chats and the aeson-gow summit.

Does the lack of chatter mean anything?

When do we let people know that we think RP is behind Vox?

Did GoW ever send that last screenshot? their turn is going on right now, will they send another this turn?

Should we seek stronger ties with GoW or ND?

	17-04-2003 00:02									#33
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I'm not sure about letting people know that we think RP is behind Vox. It might tip them off about our future intensions (attacking RP).
Stronger ties with GoW and ND are a must if we don't want them to get involved in the war in RP's side, but - how do we do it? Regular chats, perhaps?

As for the shots from GoW, I could have gone to IRC looking for GhengisFarb and asked him to send the shots, but I'm afraid he's not very fond of me.

	17-04-2003 00:42									#34
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I think we should officially go into 'dumb' diplomatic mode. Trying to play other civs against RP is only falling into RP's game. Even if we beat them at that intrigue, nobody will end up trusting us. Taking a shot at getting Lego against RP was probably worth it, but we should drop it now. It didn't work (IMO), and probably eroded some of the trust Lego might have been willing to show us.

So 'dumb' as in not speaking on the subject.

Also we don't want RP to know that we know what is going on. No talking about Vox's funding... the embargo... or anything of the sort. If the others bring it up, so be it, we thank them for the information. Then the landing by RP's capitol if/when it happens has some sort of chance at suprise. We don't want RP thinking we are coming after them, even if we are.

So 'dumb' as in clueless as to the nature of RP's involvement in the war on Vox.

	17-04-2003 01:06									#35
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Hi, if it's not a problem could someone send me a current save (rgrant@zoo.uvm.edu). I didn't think I'd been gone as long as I apparently have (Been on a HoI/EU bender that I'm now over, well perhaps after I write a report on the problems with the EUII inflation system). Looks like things have gotten quite exciting, I hope I can catch up.

Diplo comments:
I see a two front presentation strategy: 1)This will be a long and bloody war. Although this may make us look weak I think it is more likely make the "Bobians" feel the threat from each other more than us (or from our continent in general.) 2) That we will eventually win. If teams are going to place bets we want them to be on us, they will know that those who bet on Vox will be more likely targets of future aggression (in many forms).
Of course I haven't been following the diplomatic scene, so I obviously don't know much about the dynamics of how it works.

	17-04-2003 01:16									#36
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I agree with Aeson.

We tuck away what we (think we) know about RPs actions for later, and deal with the problem at hand: Vox.

Death to the invaders!

-Arrian

	17-04-2003 01:25									#37
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Too bad we can't rifle throught the vox forum after we've taken the voice, ala the US in Baghdad. I'm not sure if Vox will spill the beans after they have been routed or if they would be credible to us or on the world stage.

	17-04-2003 01:36									#38
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We can always allow assylum to those Voxian citizens who didn't support the senseless slaughter of their own people.

	17-04-2003 01:47									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson We can always allow assylum to those Voxian citizens who didn't support the senseless slaughter of their own people.

Who would you want to come in?

I really don't know who is the big cheese around there, as beta is the only one who ever talks, but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing: miller, dissident, or even wittlich to join our team.

That is putting the cart before the horse of course of course

	17-04-2003 01:58									#40
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Aye... especially if RP is telling the truth that there are 23 Immortals bearing down on Arashi.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with anyone from Vox joining if it comes to that.

	17-04-2003 02:21									#41
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There has just been a tread in the OT asking if anyone has seen Dissident lately
-
@Randolph: I just cleaned out my saves folder this afternoon and have deleted them. Someone is bound to have it lying arouns
-
Not to sound negative, but would anyone here join another team. On the one hand I don't, but on the other I would be curious to see how certain things evolved. Having a 2 POV would be interesting indeed

alva envies Trip on this

PS;
How do you guys get this going, with the ' * ' sign, semi transparant..? Or do you just use colour code?

	17-04-2003 02:27									#42
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quote: Originally posted by alva Not to sound negative, but would anyone here join another team. On the one hand I don't, but on the other I would be curious to see how certain things evolved. Having a 2 POV would be interesting indeed

I dont' think I would join another team. Too much emotional investment in this team. Would just read the papers at the end.

	17-04-2003 02:32									#43
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quote: Originally posted by alva There has just been a tread in the OT asking if anyone has seen Dissident lately

I'm playing in a PBEM where he played too. One day (about 4 weeks ago) he suddenly posted, that he won't be able to play for the next few months, and disappeared. We had to replace him. He had played before with the thought to re-enlist in his navy unit. May be he did, and is now abroad.

	17-04-2003 02:33									#44
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I would probably join Lego if they'd want me, and just be an observer.

We aren't going out though!

	17-04-2003 02:36									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I would probably join Lego if they'd want me, and just be an observer. We aren't going out though!

I agree with that. The other teams are either tainted or German. (no offense to germans of course, just a little language barrier


On Diss:

strange, very strange, hope he's ok....

	17-04-2003 02:36									#46
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quote: Originally posted by alva PS; How do you guys get this going, with the ' * ' sign, semi transparant..? Or do you just use colour code?

What do you mean, this?

* Sir Ralph shoots himself with both hands in both feet.

If yes, just write /me (will be replaced with your name) and what you're going to do.

If no, sorry, explain what you meant.

	17-04-2003 02:45									#47
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SR-

When you posted: "Since I see that I am not welcome to a degree of insults and personal attacks, and have tight time issues anyway, I leave this game out."

on the main page, were you referring to your earlier pleas on our forum to tone down the insults, or were you referring to the vox-gs trash talking. or were you commenting on Togas' comments?

If the former, then I apologize for anything I have done that has insulted you or made you regret your involvement in this team. I thought you did a great job of leading us and miss your involvement in the team, though I understand your time problems, as my time for this game is about to become nonexistant itself.

	17-04-2003 03:17									#48
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel When you posted: "Since I see that I am not welcome to a degree of insults and personal attacks, and have tight time issues anyway, I leave this game out."

I was addressing Togas' troll, of course.

	17-04-2003 03:23									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I was addressing Togas' troll, of course.

Ah, thats what I figured. He's got some issues, thats for certain.

	17-04-2003 03:35									#50
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That's what I meant SR, thanks.
I thought I tried that though, even with [ ] and < > tags
Learned something new today...
* alva tests if it works...
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I to was thinking of Lego, on the other hand, much more action on BoB. Then again, the only option would GoW
Hmm, joining Vox should be interesting,

	17-04-2003 04:00									#51
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For me the game would be over we'd lose, which would probably be a better thing for my involvement in Candle'Bre.

As to general diplo talks: you're probably right. I think Lego was still worth it to set them up against RP, and although we can't push it further, and it may not have done all it was intended for, it did us some good. If we could get them to buy Feud from us later, instead of getting it elsewhere, it would be great. It still looks like RP is getting to them, though, and it may be good to mention this in chat.

As to announcing this is going to be a bloody war: I don' fully agree. If we make it sound like it would be a very touchy situation, we could expect a Bob invasion instead of a war between Bobians. We should not tell we are going to walk over them, but we aren't going to walk over them any time soon, so there is no point in telling anyone that. At best, we could take out Vox by the time our GA ends.

One thing we should start discussing, though, is whether we want to have knights, or not. Are we going to get the tech from another team? In that case, can we have an eta on it?

Further open diplo questions:
- Have we told GoW already not to invade us if they don't want a war? No ruse!
- Could we get something to ND going, asking if they will be going for chivalry, and if so would consider selling it to us? (the price on chivalry should be a lot lower then the 200 gold we offered GoW, because there are two researchers, instead of one. I don't think GoW has any reason to get a better deal from us then ND would, ND might be the one needing our support)
- Vox peace offer: we could taunt them a little, by offering them a peace treaty, in which we agree not to attack them the next 10 turns, if they withdraw their troops, and give us 200 + 20 gpt gold in war reparations. Would be a lot of fun posting that, they will get pissed, and hopefully will be less careless. These will probably be the last turns they appear strong to us, once their first force meets our defense, we will be at least average to them. The whole point is that they should not accept, but if they would, we build defenses, and go for chivalry, which we can get in 5 or so turns.

- GoW screenshot: where is the last one? I hear some rumours about it, but haven't seen it... could anyone post it here, or in last thread, please?

DeepO

	17-04-2003 04:11									#52
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On the last was only one warrior. I won't post the shot, though, because GF makes them very big.

Just a new shot arrived, with 2 regular spearmen and a vet immortal "Tom the Terminator".

The pic is available at our "secret" mail account, who wants to see it.

	17-04-2003 04:20									#53
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Thanks got, it. It's a strange pic, though... I see one reg immortal in a stack, and another popup showing 2 reg spear and 1 vet immortal. However, I thought the upper right corner should be positioned at the unit that was clicked on, and in this case it should be beneath the popup.

At any rate, this shows 2 immortals in the shot, Sir Ralph, not 1. Not that it matters much...

DeepO

	17-04-2003 04:35									#54
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What are we going to do with the northern WC btw.

Can we afford to have him go north. They might have to pull back 1 or two units to cover for him.

I would only move him one tile though, so he can't run in with anyone.

	17-04-2003 06:54									#55
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DeepO, you really that one of the Bob civs would seriously consider the military investment necessary to attack us? If they were to attack us they would leave themselves wide open to an assault from fellow Bobers. Of course this certainly isn't something that I plan to push.
I tend to think that teams will be more militarily motivated by whom they perceive as a strategic threat opposed to whom they consider "easy pickings" (since they're really isn't a team that falls into that category, certainly not when you consider the complexity of an over seas attack).
have to go

	17-04-2003 08:22									#56
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Saves in, did I read that right, Vox said they took 3 minutes to play their turn, or is this another trick by Vox/RP?

	17-04-2003 09:42									#57
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Sorry to interrupt.

Dominae. read your PMs. Please?

	17-04-2003 13:39									#58
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The save is here. ND accepted our offer without offering anything back! That's obviously unacceptable, so I'm clearing the table.

	17-04-2003 13:53									#59
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Information we're not supposed to have yet deleted - Nathan. (Nothing earth-shattering, but I want to keep things as kosher as possible.)

Last edited by nbarclay on 17-04-2003 at 14:02

	17-04-2003 13:54									#60
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I don't have time to play the turn right now, but I went ahead and forwarded it to the usual suspects and sent out an opening screenshot. It looks like a cat in Monsoon and maybe another in O.G. are our only good pre-turn rush options; we can rush the one in Monsoon without sacrificing our ability to upgrade our two warriors this turn, but not the one in O.G.

One thing that looks good if surface impressions are correct: it looks like Vox did not deliver their third immortal by Hurricane all the way down to where the first two are, so that buys us some extra time. That gives us more options and safety margin in considering upgrading one of Hurricane's swords (although we can't do that, upgrade both warriors, and rush the cat all three). Our cash is at 150 gold, and the cat rush would cost 16.