17-04-2003 13:56									#61
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GoW scow in sight of Monsoon. 8 8.

They landed the hamster behind the other 2 Immortals on the eastern mountains. What are they doing?

	17-04-2003 13:57									#62
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NYE, are you getting ahead of where we're supposed to be? I don't think we're supposed to have clear counts on Voxian units while deciding whether to rush the cat or not.

	17-04-2003 13:58									#63
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay I don't have time to play the turn right now, but I went ahead and forwarded it to the usual suspects and sent out an opening screenshot. It looks like a cat in Monsoon and maybe another in O.G. are our only good pre-turn rush options; we can rush the one in Monsoon without sacrificing our ability to upgrade our two warriors this turn, but not the one in O.G. One thing that looks good if surface impressions are correct: it looks like Vox did not deliver their third immortal by Hurricane all the way down to where the first two are, so that buys us some extra time. That gives us more options and safety margin in considering upgrading one of Hurricane's swords (although we can't do that, upgrade both warriors, and rush the cat all three). Our cash is at 150 gold, and the cat rush would cost 16.

Take all the time we need. We have 24 hours. These are critical turns, and well, the rest of them can stuff it!

	17-04-2003 13:59									#64
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Just to be clear, please, no one go past the point where Arashi builds its walls before we decide what we're rushing during the production phase of the turn!

	17-04-2003 14:00									#65
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay NYE, are you getting ahead of where we're supposed to be? I don't think we're supposed to have clear counts on Voxian units while deciding whether to rush the cat or not.

Sorry, I clicked through to the turn.

	17-04-2003 14:03									#66
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Would it be good to rush a Pike in Arashi?

	17-04-2003 14:03									#67
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I went back and wiped your information about Voxian forces around Arashi. The bit about "the hamster" is visible enough from the screenshot that I won't worry about it.

	17-04-2003 14:04									#68
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OK.

	17-04-2003 14:04									#69
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Arashi already built its walls, so rushing something there for completion this turn is not an option.

	17-04-2003 14:05									#70
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I've just updated the Infocenter with all the city size/growth/production values visible in the screenshot. I also made note of Arashi's walls.

I'll open up the save in a few hours when I get home (leaving work early today). I'm still not sure how much value a breakdown of the placement of our military units in the Infocenter is, but I'll make note of what I can even though it'll soon be out-of-date.

	17-04-2003 14:06									#71
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If we disband a worker we can do it.

	17-04-2003 14:09									#72
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We have 150 gold and a few different options for how to spend it:

1) Upgrade two warriors in Arashi and rush a cat for completion this turn.
2) Upgrade two warriors in Arashi and a swordsman in Hurricane.
3) Upgrade one warriorin Arashi, rush a cat in Monsoon and maybe one in O.G. (which would be 32 gold) for completion this turn, and upgrade a warrior in Hurricane.

Those are the ones I can think of offhand, anyhow.

	17-04-2003 14:13									#73
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I will have to leave it to you others. I must to bed.

I suggest that we take our time on this one though.

	17-04-2003 14:15									#74
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Keep in mind that the shot I sent out is in the middle of the production cycle; some cities haven't finished the turn's production yet.

NYE, we can't move a worker until we finish the production cycle. I suppose we could add to my list above

4) Rush a pike in Arashi for completion next turn after disbanding a worker (112 gold), rush a cat in Monsoon for completion this turn (16 gold), and if desired upgrade a swordsman in Hurricane.

But considering that we'd have to give up a worker to do it, I'd rather upgrade the two warriors. We'll be getting a new pike from Tempest next turn, so it's not like we'll be completely without reserve pikes.

	17-04-2003 14:18									#75
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Here's the plan: I'll give the rush issue a few hours to simmer, then get into the meat of the turn (sorry I can't give an exact E.T.A.) and give that some time to simmer, and then play the rest of the turn starting a little before 7:00 P.M. Apolyton time. (At least that's how it needs to work if I play it.)

	17-04-2003 14:21									#76
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay Keep in mind that the shot I sent out is in the middle of the production cycle; some cities haven't finished the turn's production yet.

Yeah, I noticed that. Only about half of the cities had any change in their production from last turn, so I kinda figured it out. I'll admit it took me a couple of minutes to work out what was going on.

As for the 3 rushing options: I leaning towards #2 right now. I need to check the save to familiarise myself with our defences first, but I think I'd rather have the extra Med Inf in Arashi than instead have 2 Cats that will take time (not alot, but a bit) to get to the action zone.

	17-04-2003 14:22									#77
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Apolyton Time = Eastern US time, right?

	17-04-2003 14:23									#78
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yes

	17-04-2003 14:23									#79
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Apolyton Time = Eastern US time, right?

Right. (At least it had better, or my calculations are off. )

	17-04-2003 14:27									#80
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I'm leaning toward 1 myself. With Vox's third warrior around Hurricane a turn behind (assuming things are as they appear), the situation there is less critical, and a cat in Monsoon can get on the mountain this turn to participate in the mountain's defense or in an attack on Vox's forces next turn.

	17-04-2003 14:28									#81
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quote: Originally posted by nbarclay NYE, we can't move a worker until we finish the production cycle. I suppose we could add to my list above 4) Rush a pike in Arashi for completion next turn after disbanding a worker (112 gold), rush a cat in Monsoon for completion this turn (16 gold), and if desired upgrade a swordsman in Hurricane.

Hmm. Well, we can switch to a WC. Disband a worker, rush, and switch back to a Pike to be complete in one. Should be 70 something gold. I am not sure myself, but having 2 Pike in Arashi (1 from Tempest) next turn might be a good idea. The complicating fact would be, are we sure of the 10 shields to finish? Not certain, given the Vox units in the area.

	17-04-2003 14:41									#82
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For Vox to stop us from getting ten shields, I think they'd have to come down onto both roads, so it seems like a reasonable bet. The cost would be a worker plus 72 gold.

So

5) Rush a cat in Monsoon for completion in this turn, short-rush a pike in Arashi (after disbanding a worker ) for completion next turn, and upgrade either a warrior or a swordsman. (If we upgrade a swordsman, we could also rush a cat in O.G. for completion this turn.)

The pike-based approach would maximize our chances of holding Arashi if Vox tries to take it. I hate the thought of sacrificing a worker, but as I said earlier, it could be worth it if one pop point of worker can save a size-4 city.

	17-04-2003 14:44									#83
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I feel like I've overslept and missed a lecture at some point. Could somebody explain exactly what 'short-rushing' is?

	17-04-2003 14:50									#84
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Short rushing = Rushing to something needing less shields than the object you want to build, and then switch back. It's often better, because full rushing basically wastes the production of the current turn.

	17-04-2003 14:52									#85
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For example, set the build to a war chariot, rush, and then change the build to a pike. The "short rush" gets us to 20 shields of production completed, and the last ten finish normally.

	17-04-2003 14:59									#86
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OK, thanks guys, I get it now. That's a clever system - I'd never thought of using rushing like that before, but it's kind of obvious once somebody points it out to you.

	17-04-2003 18:47									#87
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I lean toward option #1, but option #5 is solid too (I would prefer the warrior upgrade variant as opposed to the sword upgrade + 2nd cat). Either 1 or 5 is fine by me.

-Arrian

	17-04-2003 19:05									#88
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I'd be in favor of option 1 too.

	17-04-2003 19:27									#89
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Maybe we should consider abandoning Arashi 9 and sticking it out in Arashi. It cuts down our mobility E-W, but we'll have a 4th Pike and a shot with a Catapult next turn, plus 2 more 2 defense units.

They can hit us with more troops (assuming those 87 are new Immortals), but only by opening up part of their stack to shots from our WC's, or if they wait (which gives us more time to get defense there). Also they don't get any idea as to our overall strength around Arashi... if they are 'losing' while hitting Arashi, they won't know if it's by a whole lot or a little...

Not to mention our Pikes and Swords will all be fortified (gives us about a +6% advantage on every hp) when they get hit and heal up the next turn.

The danger is if they bypass Arashi completely though. In 3 turns they would have their forces inbetween Arashi and Tempest. We could have another 3 Pikes in the area at the time (well, more if we rush, which we should be able to do), but only by opening up Hurricane. Since they have the 1 Immortal a turn behind it's not as big a deal though.

	17-04-2003 19:34									#90
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I also think we should switch Cyclone to a Cat. It can be in place by the time they could get to Tempest to help with defense there if needed. We are ahead on Workers right now anyways.