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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:27
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I do not consider my posting this here "dishonorable" in the least, as the request to "keep it quiet" has come from a proven enemy of the state, and therefore, his words presently hold little weight with me.
Nonetheless, if we can keep the *illusion* that the majority of the team does not know about it, so much the better (ie - this is prolly not something we want to talk about in the public fora).
Here's the PM I recieved last evening (late....just saw it this morning from a very high-ranking Vox member):
Hi Vel,
You posted this in the open forum:
"Still time to diffuse the situation, if you want to.... We're lovers and poets at heart....like the Scots, actually.
But....it appears you've already cast your die, yes?
-=Vel=-"
Would you care to discuss this further? We have delayed playing our turn, and have asked Lego to delay playing their's for a bit. I am out of town for the rest of today and the first part of tomorrow - but will be around late afternoon (edt) tomorrow.
And if I may ask - if we do discuss it - please don't bring the whole team. Maybe you and nye and/or nathan.
Have a good easter week-end. Cheers ...
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Shiber
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Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
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It's nice to know that Vox are considering peace. First though, I'd demand to see proof in the field.
I'd like to see their units withdraw back into D-ville's cultural borders, and the immortals approaching Sandstorm move back into the jungle. Let's assure them that as long as they are retreating, and we are able to verify that they are indeed moving back, we will not launch any attacks on their units, even if they expose themselves.
If we can strike peace with Vox and attack later... well, that'd be great!
I'm thinking that later on, we can offer them to coordinate an attack on Bob in which GS will not participate militarily, but will assist under special terms. For every achievement that they make on Bob, we will reward them: e.g. 70 gold for every city founded on Bob, 100 gold for every city conquered on Bob, 5 gold per defense point of every Bobian unit that they kill etc'.
Edit: of course, that's just a fantasy... but I can dream, can't I? 
I'm all for peace with Vox, if it means that they will go against Bob instead, and that we will have a better shot at them later.
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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They are realising it won't be as smooth walking over us then they initially thought. I don't mind the informal communication at all, nor do I consider it near dishonorable talking about possible peace, this is absolutely not the same as what GoW is doing.
As to your answer: maybe there are some options to exploit this, however in the end, I think the result will have to be the same. We only have 2 cities we can settle without bumping into Vox, which would mean 4 turns from now if we switched to settlers instead of units. After that, we need space. We will never be able to trust Vox again, and the rest of the teams will assume we will go for Vox anyway (as we aren't strong enough to fight 3 Bobian teams at once on their ground), which doesn't leave us much choice.
So, we can't sign permanent peace treaties, as we know that in about 10 turns, we are going to need to attack Vox anyway, they have left us no choice, we can't seek land elsewhere. They might not have any problems breaking treaties, we can't. Within this constraint, I see no reason why we wouldn't try to get some advantage, as long as we protect us, it wouldn't surprise me they want to backstab us.
One thing that worries me: They asked Lego to delay the turn. Did they also mentioned the reason for it? Does Lego know more about the situation then we give them credit for? Might be something to try to find out next chat with them
DeepO
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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I think it's fine, however, don't show that we aren't even considering to talk seriously. We can simply stall them for while, building up forces.
the only reason why I think they might go for it, is if they prepare for more troops to be sent to us. E.g. the Eastern coast could use 1 or 2 galleys more of immortals. We are building 4 units each turn (slightly more, even, with rushing), they can build 4-5 warriors each turn (3 cities building a warrior a turn, one at a warrior each two turns. Some more smaller cities that can build once every 4 turns). If they still have the cash, this would mean more immortals to send in, and I think they're hesitating that 11 immortals will be enough to attack a walled hill city that is defended with at least 2 pikes. So those 2 turns could also give some regrouping time to them.
I fully expect that 1 turn into the talks, if we stall them or not, they will advance again. But that's okay, it maens 4 more units to defend with, and 2 galleys closer to their landing point.
However, there is one problem: if GoW declares war on us, and sells Feud to Vox, we are facing pikes soon. Further, it would also give time to GoW to regroup troops, and next invasion force might be better coordinated (violating the Sea ROP we have, e.g.), and with pikes on board. This makes it a bit risky to agree to it.
DeepO
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Shiber
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Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
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Of course, it's possible that Vox has moved some units adjacent to Monsoon. No doubt, we will have to destroy those - otherwise, Vox will have the opportunity to violate the cease-fire agreement later (something we all know they are capable of doing).
Should we discover that they have indeed moved towards Monsoon, IMHO we will have to destroy their forces, regardless of any cease-fire agreements that we may sign. I suggest that if things turn out to be this way, we tell Vox that we take no chances, and we intend to destroy those units as well. However, if we reach some sort of a peace agreement later, we assure them that we will pay back the majority of the cost of the units that we've destroyed.
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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Oh, and yes, our power graph, plus our rise in Mil adv is scary, for more then one team. We could play this out to other teams (e.g. GoW), telling that only now are we getting up to speed producing units, as we needed to finish a few other buildings first.
Of course, our mil advisor is just as biased as Vox's was beforehand: we have 2 galleys, and have upgraded nearly everything to the max. We currently have less units, and less attacking power then GoW, even if we are "stronger" to them.
DeepO
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:27
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Regarding Pikes, and Vox's technological status:
Even IF this happens, it's a short term problem, at best. Their native research is scant compared to ours, and the only way they can keep up is by feeding off of other people's table scraps. Eventually, the other civs would come to see this as more of a liability (having to continuously "feed" another civ techs, because they cannot research them themselves (and they would lack the money to pay a good price for them, if they want to keep upgrading their warriors to Immortals and spears to pikes), and that'd be the kiss of death (no more gimmies from other civs, at which point, our own tech abilities would blow them off the map).
-=Vel=-
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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Shiber: good point. If they advanced their units before offering us to stop their forces, we can't accept. If there are forces near Monsoon, they're dead (or at least we'll try to kill them), talk or no talk.
But they haven't heared about the 'stop forces so we can talk' yet, it was a proposal of us, which hasn't been sent to them.
GoW: it doesn't represent a problem, as we could face the same threat from GoW whether Vox attacks or not. From their side, there is no change, they would be best of to wait until they have a reasonable invasion force anyway. But I think it's something we shouldn't lose out of sight
BTW, this thread must be our fastest growing thread, I face about 2-3 crossposts each time I post something
DeepO
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:27
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Well, if you guys are open to it, my proposal will be (this is how I'll word it to them):
IF the Voxians want to talk about possible peaceful resolutions to our current situation, then they must agree to a 2-turn ceasefire (2-turns is long enough to discuss the options and demands of both sides, without allowing us enough time to really build much more than we currently have, force-wise)*
Any units that are currently adjacent to cities ARE subject to attack, but if these units pull back one tile, the ceasefire will be in effect regarding those units as well.
On the second turn of the Cease-Fire agreement, if both parties agree, we can extend it. If one party disagrees, the cease-fire ends.
Howzzat?
-=Vel=-
* This is a little white lie, 'tis true....
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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It's a start, Vel. Don't we need to make demands to war compensation
No, really, isn't it necessary to tell something about what we hope to achieve? Something like "we would hope that we can reach peace, however, given the situation, that might not be easy".
I agree with Alva this can be a test, so we don't want to appear weakly to them, but also not overpowerful.
Oh, and as to your white lie: I wouldn't worry about that, as we would only gain an extra 10% forces each turn. With a bit of stretching the truth, that won't mean much... and we can expect them to bring more troops as well, meaning that the ratio stays about the same. The real gain for us would be that we can get those new pikes to fortify, instead of defending unfortified. We might even take advantage of this and move our forces back onto A9, if we want to
DeepO
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19-04-2003 17:08
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