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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:27
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I would vote against the ceasefire.
Vox has proved to be backstabbers throughout this game and I have little reason to have faith in anything they say.
They wanted this war, they have slung mud throughout the main forum. It is now time for them to pay the piper. Perhaps they see that we will soon be average in strength to them. Perhaps they underestimated our mobilization power. Perhaps they are just afraid that their immortals will fail and their game will end.
I think they are just buying time to get more immortals in place or wait for a Bob landing.
Doesn't anyone on Vox have balls? Make your move, attack or move somewhere to attack.
WE have had treaties with Vox before. They have all been broken by Vox. As such, for a ceasefire, I would demand the removal of all immortals to Elipolis and demand the city of Dissidentville and information as to who is aiding their war effort as tribute.
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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asleep, in general I agree, however if we play this well, we could take advantage without any risk on our side. Sure, we know they broke treaties, and as said, I expect them to end any cease fire before the right time. But that's okay, if it gives us an extra turn to mass forces, it's one turn won.
As to them regrouping: sure, but they can do it anyway, wether we give them permission or not. They can fall back whenever they like, but most likely want to delay us in defending (which we won't do, nor agree to). Further, if we include a clasue that we can attack any troops next to our cities, there is really an advantage to us, as they would be forced to keep peace, while we would not.
I doubt they will go for it, but in case they do, we have won something.
Also, a cease fire can only be sold to them if it is a first step towards lasting peace, or looks to be a first step towards peace. If we do that, we need to start discussing what we are going to say to them, and coordinate what we plan on saying. Them asking for only a couple of members instead of everyone is in that respect a huge advantage, the best to do would be to make one voice on our side, giving him a few advisors.
If we can build a kind of roleplay for the next couple of days towards Vox, without ever crossing the line of lying to them, it would help us considerably. However, I fully expect that they want to talk before we send our turn, instead of going for the 2 turns cease fire. And in that case, there is little to gain by talking to them, except perhaps some unvoluntary information, or some great trash-talking opportunities.
DeepO
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Dominae
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We should have offered a cease-fire/peace the turn after they declared war: if they were really planning to attack us, they would have been more committed, to our advantage; if they were having these doubts all along, we would have avoided all this frantic war preparation (not to mention avoided having to build what I still consider a Wonder that will be mostly useless to us).
I think the cease-fire is still a good idea. Our economy is not hurting that badly from the war yet, while Vox's is down the drain. A 20-turn NAP will ensure that when war breaks out again, we'll definitely be on top (instead of having to abandon cities and number crunch our losses to help with decisions).
The only scenario that I can think of is if Vox is stalling in order to get more support from Bob. Perhaps one of the teams there is offering actual military assistance, which is not ready to jump into action just yet. This would obviously be very bad for us, and it is enough not to put me behind the cease-fire idea 100% just yet. Do we have any indication that Vox is just stalling?
Dominae
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DeepO
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supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
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Dominae, I would never agree to a 20 turn NAP, we only need between 10 and 15 turns from here on to wipe them off our continent, even if we would lose the battle of Arashi. I agree that the switch towards military power has been very expensive, but considering it also gave us our GA, and that we needed to look for not-so-peaceful expansion anyway, it's not that bad. Besides, the only reason why we were doing so well in pop and cities is because we always thought that we could catch up if it needed to, we only postponed the switch, and gained all those turns we didn't had units to support, and could build more workers and cities. It was a deliberate choice, and I don't think it was a bad one... Look at how other empires (like ND or RP) are doing that did keep their military up to date for defense. Their cities aren't nearly as impressive as ours, and I don't think that by the time we conquer the rest of our continent, they have passed us in population.
DeepO
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
Nope....we have no firm ideas about anything, but even without them, I'd still say the ceasefire notion would be a good one. Worst possible case would be that they're waiting for masses of galleys to arrive from Bob, filled with troops, but since we're wise to the possibility, we'd have plenty of time to re-garrison our (mostly empty) cities.
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Hm, but the difference is that, if we do not agree to the cease-fire now, we can deal with the Voxians first and their pesky ally (allies!?) second. As an added benefit, the ally might think twice when they see that we've repelled Vox. Instead of focusing on Vox, I believe we could benefit from some intelligence-gathering (the diplomatic kind) of the Bobian civs.
Dominae
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Shiber
I disagree. IMHO a cease-fire when we can't even see their main troops is useless to us. They could just keep advancing, yet unsighted, during a several turns cease-fire. |
Our average-case estimates as to the size of the Voxian force were not far off. Still, I admit it was nice to see exactly what they're capable of throwing at us.
In any case, the ability to have waited a bit longer and go to war on our terms would definitely have been to our advantage.
Dominae
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
Dominae, I would never agree to a 20 turn NAP, we only need between 10 and 15 turns from here on to wipe them off our continent, even if we would lose the battle of Arashi. |
I believe you're underestimating their capabilities, and overestimating ours (at this point in time). We're not even close to "overwhelming force", and so 10-15 turns is a bit idealistic. Even if it could happen, we would lose most of our forces in the process.
Dominae
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:27
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Shebir:Will do, but I'll have to do that when I get home (at work right now....firewall.... )
Dominae: Ahhh, I see where you're going with it, and I agree, but consider: We're average - strong militarily with the guys on Bob. In order for them to mount a credible threat, they'd need to have *at least* six galleys at the ready, and a sufficient number of guys to transport immediately. If they had that, plus enough to defend their own lands, they'd be as strong as Vox on the military chart.
IMO, if they have allies who have pledged military support, that support will be spotty at best. If there is a ceasefire, it'll likely be a short one, netting us an advantage, in the sense that we have a few more turns to organize ourselves and our defenses while we plant confusion in the mind of the enemy. Then we deal with Vox first, and whatever allies they've got....
-=Vel=-
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by DeepO
So they have initiative, and if they know Bobian reinforcements are on route, they can stall us anyway. We need a lot more med infs to get them of those mountains by force. So, we don't put ourselves in a worse position by not going for a (limited, of course) cease fire.
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And a good point by you too!
Would the cease-fire require them to get out of our territory?
Dominae
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19-04-2003 18:51
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