03-05-2003 00:49									#1
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The original is reaching 500 posts- so let's get this one going!

From the previous thread:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From reading the few posts on the public board, i'm relieved to see GoW doesn't take our self defense as problematic- i'll just cut to the chase with my message.

How about this:

quote: Honorable X of the Glory of War Republic. I have just returned home from my long trip abroad, to be back to active duty as ambassador- only to find out our two nations are in a state of war. Although one would surely be alarmed of such news, especially when considering our peaceful relations so far, as well as the war with the Voxians raging (despite the recent good news from the front), I can see that our two nations do not intend to wage a full war against one another- there were no incidents beyond the two horsemen landing, which ended as expected. In addition to that, the 10 turn non disclosure agreement signed with regard to the Feudalism trade was honored, which was another sign of your intentions. We also assumed that since you are now under the rule of a senate, that the live war cabinet broadcasts (despite the lack of "war") are quite popular among the populace. This reason alone would be enough to justify being in a formal state of war. However, if we intend to exploit the benefits of tech trade, namely Chivalry, we'll have to make peace some day. On that regard- what is your estimate on completing the research? Also, please allow me to send my condolences to the the families of those horse riders who fell in battle against our troops- killing is always hard, especially when it is done against those we do not consider enemies. Zeit, ambassador of the Gatherig Storm.

How's that?

Feel free to post additions, objections, factual or grammatical corrections, or whatever you feel like.

Edit #1: typos

	03-05-2003 00:54									#2
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Posted by DeepO:

quote: I like it, Zeit. You're very right we need to get some communication with them going... I said what I had to say on the public forum, what I'm concerned we can close this chapter, and try to move on. I hope I did not make your diplo job any more difficult, but you can feel the other teams (at least Lego) longing for more information... we can't alienate all of them.

Actually, your post came right in time- with a direct honesty i think was just right given the somewhat "slow" phase of trash talking, when Vox and us both understand there is alot at stake here, and the rest of the teams also realize the world is going to change pretty soon, with a war impending on Bob.
The tension is rising, and i'm sure everyone feels that, a direct and honest post, that "looks everyone in the eyes" serves our purpose at this point, and in fact i'm glad you said what you said.

Keep the comments on our post to GoW.

	03-05-2003 01:18									#3
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I agree. The last few posts in the Vox thread have IMHO cleared any doubts that anyone might seriously have about the genuinity of this war, strengthened our honesty character, blew the "secretive GS" stigma away and made us look more down-to-earth. Well done everyone

	03-05-2003 01:22									#4
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I can't believe that people really though that it was fake war between us and Vox. How sad do they think we are that we would go to the trouble to make that stuff up? Do they think we're liars?

	03-05-2003 01:28									#5
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quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I can't believe that people really though that it was fake war between us and Vox. How sad do they think we are that we would go to the trouble to make that stuff up? Do they think we're liars?

Well, the guy who posted that question, badams52, isn't even on one of the teams. As far as what rendelnep said, I think they just want some idea of whats going on, what's taking these turns so long to finish. A very fine line, to post updates, but not come off as arrogant. Perhaps we could have trip post a news letter (after we have edited ) to try to avoid that.

	03-05-2003 01:45									#6
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badams52 doesn't even have Civ3 yet, I thought, but he is active on the strat forum, and I can only imagine that he doesn't hold the same kind of grudge against us as some of the other people. Which is why it was perfect to comment to him...

Rendelnep's comment can be understood: I had quite an open communication with Lego going, and suddenly it stopped. I can imagine at least some of them feeling awkward about this, and if something doesn't feel right, it is automatically suspect.

But what moved me most were the comments by GoW members. First of all GF posting they don't hold grudges against us, and essentially saying we acted in full honor, which they understood. At first, it seemed they were expecting Vox to have conquered half our territory now, don't forget they saw at least part of their troops coming towards us, and we haven't lost anything.

Then the comment of CalcII, being very surprised we didn't create an army with Ramses. It's the same kind of surprise we had to fight when they asked us why we didn't want Feudalism fast, to keep the immortals at bay, and us trying to say we didn't exaclty thought we were at too serious risk.

I can only see a couple of reasons for this, they can't think anymore we're weak compared to them (and our rise in power was impressive, it only took a couple turns to pass them), but they can think Vox is still on the winning hand (well they might still win some skirmishes, although it is not likely anymore that we will lose big). Further, I strongly think that Vox and GoW were into this, at least to a certain extent. Vox could very well have been feeding them too optimistical information.

So, for those reasons, it was needed, IMHO, to do something about it, and post some information on what has been going on. Sure, GoW wouldn't like it that we snatched Sun Tzu before them, but I don't think they will be very eager to invade us again, at least not with an invasion in which they land their troops inside our territory (from behind D-ville, a lot is still possible). I hope I was also not too cocky, and I tried to be vague enough as to how many units we exactly have, or have destroyed. We should keep this information secret for as long as possible, it would be very easy to boast that last time we had the chance, we destroyed 8 units in one turn, with only one casuality on our side, they will certainly fear us. But better to keep that in the air, and only make them think that Vox is not giving them accurate information.

If they have good diplo contacts with Vox (and we have all reasons to assume that), I bet GF is now demanding to know a precise casualty report from Vox. They won't ask us, that's for sure, and they will be curious.

That said, I think we did enough in giving out information, and we should shut up for a while again. Plus, next turn could become very interesting, as Vox still is in a position to seriously damage us.

DeepO

	03-05-2003 01:54									#7
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I think you guys did a great job on the other forum DeepO, its quite the tightrope that we have to walk over there and with other teams.

An army: they must think we are pretty desperate if we would blow that leader on an army when sun tzu is available. What do they want,a WC army with chivalry right around the corner a slowmover army? a defensive army? The others must think we are quite desperate.

I'm just dying for a peak into the vox communiques and the discussion about how we were going to be whipped. I imagine that the others were expecting Vox to hit EoTS this turn, when they haven't really made a move on anything. We have been accused of being cocky and arrogant, but I daresay there were plenty of reports of our demise that were met with laughter and scorn in the others' fora. A shame to ruin their fun.

	03-05-2003 02:07									#8
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quote: i can see that our two nations do intend to wage a full war against one another

Um, shouldn't there be a "not" in there? Also, in case it's a point of English grammar you aren't aware of rather than just a repeated typo, the pronoun "I" is always supposed to be capitalized.

	03-05-2003 02:09									#9
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asleep, that was going to be my next comment, if Vox posted something silly again: "What, you mean to say you actually attacked us this turn, instead of walking past us?"

As said, it would be easy to simply say:
Vox Kills: 1 reg warrior (1 more disbanded), 2 vet pikes.
GS kills: 6 immortals and a 1 spear, plus 2 horsies in the same turn.
Units in danger of getting killed:
GS: a few pikes.
Vox: their complete invasion force.

Now who is weak as opposed to the other?


The problem with something like that is that it certainly is arrogant, and over the line.... it's nowhere near fun anymore. And if Vox could for instance capture SandStorm, even at great expense, they would have a ball with the PR on the forum.

DeepO

	03-05-2003 02:35									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DeepO asleep, that was going to be my next comment, if Vox posted something silly again: "What, you mean to say you actually attacked us this turn, instead of walking past us?" As said, it would be easy to simply say: Vox Kills: 1 reg warrior (1 more disbanded), 2 vet pikes. GS kills: 6 immortals and a 1 spear, plus 2 horsies in the same turn. Units in danger of getting killed: GS: a few pikes. Vox: their complete invasion force. Now who is weak as opposed to the other? The problem with something like that is that it certainly is arrogant, and over the line.... it's nowhere near fun anymore. And if Vox could for instance capture SandStorm, even at great expense, they would have a ball with the PR on the forum. DeepO

It would be great to post that, but it is too arrogant / Plus we don't want them to know that we haven't lost anything attacking them, do we?

	03-05-2003 02:48									#11
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Well, we did lose one WC in our first attempt to trigger our GA and another against an immortal in the big fight. So it's not as if we haven't lost anything attacking them. Of course we're the only ones in the whole world who know about our first WC's failure.

	03-05-2003 02:54									#12
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Yeah, which is good, we should keep our casualties to our own. That first WC was a ghost, nobody saw him... and the second fought twice and gave us a leader, so that was nice compensation

And I agree wholeheartedly that we can't post that, but it certainly wouldn't miss its effect

DeepO

	03-05-2003 02:55									#13
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They could have lost one or more immorals trying to kill Grog too .

	03-05-2003 02:56									#14
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Is WC that put us in our GA is the same one that gave us the leader? If so, then to that trooper!

	03-05-2003 02:57									#15
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Grog on Wheels, baby, Grog on Wheels. Nearly as important as the original Grog

DeepO

	03-05-2003 03:37									#16
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quote: Um, shouldn't there be a "not" in there? Also, in case it's a point of English grammar you aren't aware of rather than just a repeated typo, the pronoun "I" is always supposed to be capitalized.

Sure thing about the "no" thing

As for the capitalized "I"- I just keep forgeting that...
Right now I can envision the face of my english teacher going "tsk, tsk, tsk..."

	03-05-2003 09:41									#17
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By the way, when we finally nail "Eli the Eliminator" I WANT A SCREENSHOT!

I want to show the world what happened to the vile slayer of Grog I.

-Arrian

	03-05-2003 20:47									#18
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Okay, since i see no further objections, i'm going to send this one.

	14-05-2003 11:15									#19
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*Bumb*

I'm Sorry for not logging what i got from HotE... I've sent him a reminder. I hope they'll re-arrange their FM quickly, because i'm rather tired of their "delays" and "errors", almost looks like your average country wide mail service, not a team of about 10 active members.

	15-05-2003 01:06									#20
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Good to hear from HotE and GoW once more, at least someone there is still alive...

Well, we have some good news: the deal is still on, as far as HotE can tell. The question is: how seriously are they working on it? perhaps war on Bob is not something the GoW is most interested in right now. Despite their UU advantage, they still suffer from inferior force compared to ND and RP, as well as a geographical strategic disadvantage, in terms of defending their home turf, at least from what we can judge by looking at the map.

They could use the time to hoard more gold and horsemen, and make a blitz against ND, i'll guess we'll direct these inquiries at Master Zen, who is going to be their new ambassador.

	15-05-2003 21:45									#21
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Zeit, I think it more likely that GoW and ND combine forces, to take on either RP, or us. a GoW-ND war is unlikely, in my eyes...

DeepO

	15-05-2003 22:51									#22
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What are we going to do about Feudalism, the NDA is nearly over, and we once thought of making some form of agreement to prevent us from bargaining against each other...

Should we ask them about it?

	30-05-2003 03:26									#23
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Okay, time to liven the one!

Master Zen is entering the fray fresh, so this thread might see some action.

I have inquired him about the ETA on Chivalry- even for the sake of making it sound like we crave it, we could definitely use the information, especially for preparations for the assault.

I also believe we could get a pretty good price on the tech- for one thing, it's GoW, and it is known for it's "break the market" prices- like it has done with Map Making and our precious Feudalism. Second point to remember is GoW craving for gold which is soon to come- we want Chivalry pretty badly and ASAP, but as soon as they get the tech- they'll surely want our gold badly as well.

Please add your ideas.

	30-05-2003 03:45									#24
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I completely agree with everything that you said and have nothing to add, other than that I'm glad that ND and ourselves are not the only teams that have had few active members recently.
Don't be discouraged by my reply though.

Oh, btw, I'm a little pissed off at the way that GoW sold Feudalism to everyone. I can't be mad at GoW, really, since it's legit to sell Feudalism after 10 turns, I'm just mostly mad at Lego. But we can't blame them for wanting to see us drag our war while they are building peacefully.

	30-05-2003 03:47									#25
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Oh, perhaps in order to create the sense that we're looking again for long term partnerships, it would be wise to ask GoW if they're aiming for any wonders in the mid or ancient age, and if so, whether they'd like to coordinate their goals with us.
Personally, I hope that they're building the Colossus with that library prebuild - better than let it fall into the hands of Lego.

	31-05-2003 15:26									#26
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Okay, 10-13 turns till Chivalry. Is this in any case a 1 beaker research effort, or only somewhat above it?

This is a long time till they get there, perhaps too long for us?

How fast we could do it ourselves if we make it full speed ahead, or at a reasonable speed?

	03-06-2003 01:17									#27
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Quick question: are we still technically at war with GoW?

-Arrian

	03-06-2003 01:29									#28
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Yes, I think so... but don't take my word on it

DeepO

	03-06-2003 01:30									#29
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10-13 turns to Chivalry? That's nuts... we can get it in 6 or 7 turns... be cautious on this one! Maybe it's time to consider getting another source, or planning to do it ourselves, only a few turns later...

DeepO

	03-06-2003 01:53									#30
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That might explain ND's reluctance to get Feudalism faster from us.