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Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 18:58
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As for a response to UnO's PM, how's this:

quote:


UnO,

Ask yourself this: why else would the gifting/regifting have taken place?

That's all I can say, as GoW is allied with ND, and I assume any info I give you will be provided to ND.

-Arrian


I thought about it, and it just doesn't make sense to pretend otherwise. What possible purpose could there have been, other than warping troops back to Pamplona?

-Arrian

edit: no, I haven't sent it. I'm open to suggestions (including "no, arrian, you idiot, do not tell him that!")

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 19:00
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No, and Lego told us during the last chat that they didn't tell GoW. So this leaves us with four options, IMHO:
1. Lego lied.
2. A single member of Lego gave out this information, intentionally or unintentionally, without consulting nor notifying the rest of his team.
3. Vox told them.
4. An RP'er accidentally let slip of this and didn't confess / intentionally let slip of this and betrayed his team.
UnOrthOdOx says that he found out about this while chatting about another game. It's probably either the ISDG, or the SPDG, and Legomen are involved in both but I don't know of any Voxian who is involved in either. Therefore, I tend to believe that #2 is the most probable option.

Anyway... I got the same message from UnOrthOdOx as well. He must have sent that to multiple players simultaneously, which means that he must want a prompt reply... which means that he's in a hurry... which probably means that ND wants to know before they play this turn... which IMHO means that we should stall.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 19:03
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On the other hand, I'm not sure if stalling would just tip them off that we did use Inchon to transport units.
How about if we reply with:

quote:

We'll give you a truthful and definite answer if you tell us this: is GoW planning, or at least considering, to back-stab ND?


Risky and radical, I know.

vulture is offline vulture
King
Leeds, UK
Jun 2001
time: 05:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 19:12
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Since I doubt that the info will be of any use to ND or GoW ("there's an extra two units on Bob - we'd better not attack"), I don't think that they are asking to strategic reasons. I suspect they want to know because they would consider it a hostile action, violating the NAP, and so they would be justified in attacking us, since we have gone from claiming RP cities (in return for techs, as GK told them...) to actively helping RPs war effort by moving their troops around for them. Since GoW and RP are at war (publically, if not in game), that could well fall under the hostile actions clause, (which IIRC is what the NAP specifies, rather than anything about attacking each other).

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 19:24
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How about :

quote:

Hi UnOrthOdOx,

We allowed RP to scout our coasts under the condition that their scouting galley would be empty of troops. They violated that term and sent two horsemen on the galley (reminds me of what GoW did once). The turn we found out about this, we decided to let RP teleport their two horsemen back to Bob by switching hands over Inchon in order to free up their galley of the illegal load.


Not accurate, but not one lie in it (IMHO) either.

Sir Ralph is offline Sir Ralph
Emperor
Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 19:30
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Awwwww, that sounds like an awfully lame excuse. Better to say nothing than this.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 19:31
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No... no real info. Let them guess, keep them off balance. If we answer, we can only say: "I'm sorry, but that is strategic info, and we hope you will understand we do not give strategic info to a team who is treathening one of our cities."

I agree with vulture: they know there is bit one reason to do this swapping, and they are asking for an excuse to call it a further violation of our NAP.

As to whom it came from: it is quite strange that hours after we chatted in Lego, asking if they have passed the info on, UnO asks us about it. However, that does not mean Lego lied to us per se, there's also Vox, and there's also RP. Plus, we did not ask to keep it from the others, so very strictly speaking, there has been no leak...

DeepO

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 19:45
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I don't mind either way. I could go with DeepO's wording, if we only replied fast.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 21:10
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Let's not respond until more GS'ers have had a chance to weigh in.

I suppose teleporting units for RP could be a violation of the hostile actions clause, but I think it's a stretch. Besides, GoW have yet to declare war on RP. So TECHNICALLY... I kinda like using technicalities vs. GoW, after what they did to RP and how they basically gloated about it on the public forum.

Anyway, they're looking for a justification to break the NAP, which means they are going to break it. If they don't get their justification, they will make one up.

-Arrian

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 21:12
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Oh, and by the way, I'm thinking that if we want to refuse to tell them, rather than DeepO's "we won't tell a team that is threatening us" I'd rather simply say this:

"No comment."

-Arrian

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 21:21
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I would just tell him that what we do on our own continent is our own concern.

What's this "to a man" bullshit. He might have been honest with us in the past, but certainly others on his team have not. Actively plotted against us. Fake war. Fake screenshots (that we paid for!) Landed offensive units on our soil. Royally ****ed us with Feudalism.

No, they don't deserve anything other than the back of our hand.



And yes, I agree that they are "building" the case for war and this is one more piece.

Maybe we should tell them that if they are looking for excuses to declare war on us, then they should just be men and do it. Challenge their manhood, thats the ticket.

OPD is offline OPD
King
Birmingham UK
Jun 2002
time: 05:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 21:26
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Does this in any way reflect badly on the code of honour thing that is so important to GS?

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 21:27
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I think Arrian nailed it... how can teleporting RP units be a hostile act if they are not at war?

What the heck do you call being on our territory?

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 21:35
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One part of me is eager to make an exception, the other part of me realizes that if we make even a single exception, the whole code of honor thing is worthless.

Has anyone considered that UnO just wants to know for his Trappings of War series?
Still, we shouldn't bet on that horse. I'll go with DeepO's, Arrian's or Vulture's approach and wording.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 21:38
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Just to be clear: It's not my specific wording that is important to me, it is the idea: We do not want to disclose that right now, for obvious reasons.

DeepO

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 21:46
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They are asking us to disclose military secrets. That is simply unexcusable. Maybe we should ask them why they moved a spear onto the hill near PoI? Spying on our troop movements? Maybe we should ask them their troop disposition and location.

What we do on our land is our own business. It is obvious that know exactly why a city like that would be exchanged.

Do they know that we were in a 1/2 turn war? They didn't say it, Lego didn't say it, but perhaps they didn't want us to know they knew.

If they don't know we were at war, they wouldn't know that we gave them cats.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:10
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Possible response:

quote:
Your question about Inchon constitutes prying into private matters between GS and RP at a time when you have declared war on RP in the forums (albeit not in-game yet). Under the circumstances, we feel that providing a direct response to your inquiry would set a bad precedent. However, lest you interpret something you think might have happened there as a possible hostile act directed at you, keep in mind which of RP's enemies they are actively fighting at present.


[Edit: Added "we feel that" to make it sound maybe a little less blunt]

Last edited by nbarclay on 28-07-2003 at 22:18

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:10
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Proposed reply:

quote:

UnOrthOdOx,

What we do on our land is our own business. You are asking us to reveal potential military secrets and tactical information - that is intolerable.

Sincerely,
Gathering Storm.


Short and to the point, and it leaves them with nothing.

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:12
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Nevermind, x-posted with Nathan and I like his wording better, especially the last bit.

DeepO is offline DeepO

Emperor
supporting Candle'Bre
Jan 2002
time: 06:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:19
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Here's an idea:
"We will tell you if there were military units in Inchon when it was given back to us, if you tell us the name of the person who told you about the switch"
UnO can then respond with some name, after which we respond:
"Yes there were units in Inchon"



DeepO

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:23
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Very good Nathan!!!

One suggestion: Can we use words other than "constitutes prying into"?

How about "is in regard to"?
How about

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:28
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I don't really like Nathan's version.

If we're not going to tell them, I'd much rather keep it very short & to the point - no justifications, no "to the extent thats" - just a flat no comment.

Or perhaps "that's between us and RP."

-Arrian

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:36
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Alternate wording:

quote:
As a matter of principle, we prefer not to comment on private matters between ourselves and RP to a nation that has declared war on RP in the public forum. However, lest you interpret something you think might have happened at Inchon as a possible hostile act directed at you, keep in mind which of RP's enemies they are actively fighting at present.

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:41
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Say something stupid like "We had no units in Inchon when it was given to RP, there were no units in Inchon when we received it back of course." Then ask them if they have any units in Imperial city.

Then start polishing our blades... GoW is going to declare war on us very soon. They sound like they have made up their mind on that and are just fishing for some sort of justification for breaking the NAP. I hope I'm wrong, but we need to be planning for being at war with GoW.

We certainly don't owe them any information.

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:43
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Hmm, that's better. Edit: was responding to Nathan, x-post with Aeson. I have to say, I like Aeson's question re: Imperial city

Now, do well all send it? That could be amusing... every one of us sending him the exact same response...

-Arrian

Shiber is offline Shiber
Emperor
Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:45
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YES!!
Yes, I love it!!

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:47
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Can we rush a galley or two in the North. A nice landing of 4 war chariots/knights and 2 pikes in two turns would be a rude awakening to GoW when they declare war.

We need to develop war plans based on GoW either attacking Bilbao this turn or declaring war and moving closer to Toledo.

Too bad I'll be gone for the next 2+ days, will miss out on all the fireworks

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:50
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quote:
However, lest you interpret something you think might have happened at Inchon as a possible hostile act directed at you, keep in mind which of RP's enemies they are actively fighting at present.


I think we should play dumb on the "GoW is trying to find justification to break the NAP" front. Let them make the accusations before we start defending ourselves, otherwise it looks guilty.

As an example, what was the first thing that came to mind when reading GoW's "RP will likely start complaining that we've broken agreements after we declare war" statement?

Arrian is offline Arrian
Emperor
Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:51
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I think all we need to do in the north is manage to destroy Port Isolation. Then we need to concentrate everything we've got on the defense of RP. With us fighting off GoW's Riders and RP trying to stop ND, things are going to be REALLY dicey.

-Arrian

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:27
  Old Post 28-07-2003 22:51
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quote:
every one of us sending him the exact same response...


With each one of you taking a different city to ask about if it's garrisoned.

 
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