12-05-2003 09:35									#61
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quote: Originally posted by finbar So the Brumbies become our only reps in the final series

	12-05-2003 10:15									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Interesting idea the shoot outs – how often are we likely to see them though? Unlike s***** Rugby tends not to finish level too often.

Ugh. Missed this last week. Utterly awful idea. Thought up by an Australian no doubt.
Although I do happen to like soccer (sorry for the bad word Tamerlin ) the penalty shoot-out at the end is one facet I just cannot abide.
Introducing the same into rugby is an even worse idea IMO.
Point about the number of matches finishing level after extra-time is well-taken but you know what they say about the possibility of something that can happen actually happening. Especially if its an undesirable something.
It won't be a fair fight when it happens either. Murphy is undoubtably Irish.

	12-05-2003 11:29									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse

You didn't go! You can't take any of the credit! If you'd gone, they'd have won with your bellicose barracking!

	12-05-2003 11:36									#64
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Ugh. Missed this last week. Utterly awful idea.

It's nonsensical. While, as Havak says, tied scores are less frequent in rugby, they do happen. But, unlike s*****, points can be scored at any time. One penalty anywhere within kicking distance and that's it. Frankly, I'd be very surprised if any game gets to the drop goal scenario. With extra time followed by sudden death extra time, someone's going to score. The bottom line is that it's not only nonsensical, it's plainly unnecessary.

	12-05-2003 14:16									#65
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quote: Finnegan plans to finish his career in Ireland. He's got a zillion relatives there. I'm not sure which club.

He’ll sign a Provincial contract like Jim Williams did so you are looking at Munster, Leinster or Ulster (I think Connacht are being axed). Leinster are Dublin based, Munster further north. Ulster very much North of course.

quote: George has been pulling off some of his usual miraculous - and legal - pilfers at the breakdown. I suspect that's what will keep him ahead of Waugh.

Yep he is out the Back mould on that one. I think I’d rather see him play anyway as he is a little less physical than Waugh and will make a better target for a fit Moody should we meet.

quote: If it happpened here, the offended party would be straight off to court waving the Trade Practices Act.

It’s probably a “the committees decision shall be final” clause hidden somewhere that they agreed to automatically when they played their first League game.
Anyway it’s no longer an issue – Bristol finished bottom not Bath so the obstacles will now disappear I suspect.

quote: Or is Perpignan a one-off?

Tamerlin covered it better than me. Mind you Agen are an unusual case – you have to watch them as they have been found guilty of throwing games deliberately eh Tamerlin?
Luger has now confirmed the move to USAP by the way – three year deal.

quote: The reason, presumably, is that the challenger would be ostracised.

Absolutely. The old boy network is alive and well despite the commercial success of the Union.

quote: Haven't your sister and her family got a home of their own?

Apparently not.

quote: You're entitled. But you've probably got some catching up to do - they've no doubt detested the Tigers a lot longer.

True. They don’t like anybody down there in fact. Closest thing we ever get to a S***** atmosphere in England – it can be quite uncomfortable.
That’s just one of the reasons they are the only club that is generally liked less than us.

quote: Oh well, the scapegoat has choofed off to Saracens. Problem solved.

I’m praying Deano is a little smarter than that and is looking for a top class backs coach over summer.

quote: With the onfield performances, et al, they're well on the way to a PhD in Alienating The Most Important People In The Equation.

Indeed. The fans are letting them know what they feel on this one.

quote: Look upon it as character building

You know I have a fairly healthy attitude to the sport. I don’t like losing of course but twenty minutes of moping is as much as it affects me – and I obey all the ‘form’ of the thing – I shook hands and congratulated the Exile boys around me on the terrace when they beat us.

If you can’t lose with grace you shouldn’t be playing or watching Union.

My biggest fear for us is the way the club are ignoring
the problem in the sound bites they spew out. I think that is all designed to get season tickets renewed and I hope that after the deadline passes they’ll be more honest and say “okay we need to strengthen here, here and here”. We shall see.

Mrs Havak is not actually ‘Mrs’ Havak btw. I’ve always planned to marry money – I’m therefore making her work hard to get some.

	12-05-2003 16:56									#66
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The club confirmed this morning that we have singed the Italian Fly Half Ramiro Pez.

A rumour that turned out to be true - unbelievable.

He is a good player - but of course he is going to RWC with Italy so it's start but there is more to do.

	12-05-2003 17:55									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Havak He’ll sign a Provincial contract like Jim Williams did so you are looking at Munster, Leinster or Ulster (I think Connacht are being axed). Leinster are Dublin based, Munster further north. Ulster very much North of course.

I don't think it's Munster, and it definitely wouldn't be Ulster, so it probably has to be Leinster. I must look into it.

quote: Yep he is out the Back mould on that one. I think I’d rather see him play anyway as he is a little less physical than Waugh and will make a better target for a fit Moody should we meet.

Interestingly enough, they've both - Smith and Waugh - bulked up this season.

quote: Anyway it’s no longer an issue – Bristol finished bottom not Bath so the obstacles will now disappear I suspect.

What happened to the talk of the Bristol-Bath merger?

quote: That’s just one of the reasons they are the only club that is generally liked less than us.

Well, it's the area where - latest theory has it - King Arthur and Camelot, et al, were based. I'm not sure what that means, I just thought I'd toss it in.

quote: If you can’t lose with grace you shouldn’t be playing or watching Union.

Yes, that's one of the nice things about the game. And the test of the true rugby person.

quote: My biggest fear for us is the way the club are ignoring the problem in the sound bites they spew out. I think that is all designed to get season tickets renewed and I hope that after the deadline passes they’ll be more honest and say “okay we need to strengthen here, here and here”. We shall see.

We shall. I await the off-season with interest.

quote: Mrs Havak is not actually ‘Mrs’ Havak btw. I’ve always planned to marry money – I’m therefore making her work hard to get some.

"Mrs" is the tag we - the Oz Civ players - attach to any partner, spouse, girlfriend, regardless of marriage status, for easy reference: Mrs Horse, Mrs Deity, Mrs Hydey, Mrs finbar, and so on.

Oh, and it's about time you made an honest woman of her!

	12-05-2003 18:04									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Tamerlin covered it better than me. Mind you Agen are an unusual case – you have to watch them as they have been found guilty of throwing games deliberately eh Tamerlin?

The ERC has been very harsh with the Sporting Union Agenais, many other clubs could have been found guilty of such a behavior... at the time of the said game the SUA team was decimated by injuries and sent a kind of B-Team, true.

The SUA is one of the pillars of the French Rugby and this is not a year without European cup that could ruin it.

The semi-finals of the French Championship are already known:

Stade Français vs. Biarritz Olympique (05/30 Bordeaux)

StadeToulousain vs. Sporting Union Agenais (05/31 Montpellier)

For the first time since a few years I am really considering staying at home for the semi-finals and watching the game on TV with some friends, the Stade de la Mosson in Montpellier is an awful s***** (you will never be forgiven Ravagon... never!) Stadium located in an awful suburb which is moreover difficult to reach (I have almost missed the beginning of a game twice here). This is one of those old stadiums with three smaller side (the good places are of course on one of the smaller side) and one huge and high rostrum without roof and bathed with the sun which means you have the sun in your eyes when you sit here in the afternoon (and the game will be played at 15:00) and that you can be far from the action. I have never managed to buy good places each time the Stade Toulousain has played here... I am really fed up with the Stade de la Mosson...

quote: Indeed. The fans are letting them know what they feel on this one.

I am supporting you and your fellows Havak but I am afraid they don't care at all...

quote: You know I have a fairly healthy attitude to the sport. I don’t like losing of course but twenty minutes of moping is as much as it affects me – and I obey all the ‘form’ of the thing – I shook hands and congratulated the Exile boys around me on the terrace when they beat us.

Extend the moping duration to an hour or two (or an afternoon if the Stade Toulousain's players have really played like penguins) and you have my behavior after a game. I am generally angry against the Toulousains but never against the opponents I congratulate at the end of the game.

quote: My biggest fear for us is the way the club are ignoring the problem in the sound bites they spew out. I think that is all designed to get season tickets renewed and I hope that after the deadline passes they’ll be more honest and say “okay we need to strengthen here, here and here”. We shall see.

A man should never stop dreaming...

quote: Mrs Havak is not actually ‘Mrs’ Havak btw. I’ve always planned to marry money – I’m therefore making her work hard to get some.

	13-05-2003 04:40									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Stade Français vs. Biarritz Olympique (05/30 Bordeaux) StadeToulousain vs. Sporting Union Agenais (05/31 Montpellier)

I've never remarked on this before, but the French clubs have such wonderful names. It's not just that the towns - or cities - have such attractive names, which they do, it's how beautifully they are incorporated into the club names.

BTW, Tamerlin, what does Stade mean in the context of the club's name? I know it means Stadium, but how does it translate in the context of the name?

	13-05-2003 05:35									#70
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quote: Originally posted by finbar So the Brumbies become our only reps in the final series and they're lucky to be there. They will be without Steve Larkham - he has a fracture in his elbow which will see him miss all the of the mid-season Tests - so I don't fancy their chances against the Blues, in Auckland, particularly if Carlos Spencer is on song.

Blues winger Rupeni Caucaunibuca will be out due to injury, so I'm hoping that won't affect the Blues' performance as much as it did the last time he was out.

http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/artic...2591733883.html

	13-05-2003 06:06									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Blues winger Rupeni Caucaunibuca will be out due to injury, so I'm hoping that won't affect the Blues' performance as much as it did the last time he was out. http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/artic...2591733883.html

He shouldn't have played last weekend. He came off in the second half with a recurrence of the ankle injury. I don't know why they risked him in such an unimportant - in the scheme of things - match. Their other Fijian winger - Joe Rococo-something - finally produced something last week, though, after a patchy mid-season.

As this morning's rugby media pointed out, Larkham's absence might be - dare I say it? - a minor blessing in disguise. He has had, by his standards, only a moderate season, hardly challenging the defences, which, when he's playing well, is one of his great strengths. By that I don't mean hittting the ball up, I mean his ghosting runs, creating doubts for the defences. It seems Matt Giteau will slot into #10, and he's constantly challenging the defences.

It looks like Owen Finnegan and George Smith will be assigned to pressure and smother Carlos Spencer at every opportunity. Carlos has been getting away with murder, with acres of space and tons of time to do his thing. If they can quieten Carlos, the Blues will find the going more difficult.

	13-05-2003 06:53									#72
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I've never remarked on this before, but the French clubs have such wonderful names. It's not just that the towns - or cities - have such attractive names, which they do, it's how beautifully they are incorporated into the club names.

Here are the full names of the Top 16 teams along with their town:

Stade Toulousain (Toulouse)
Biarritz Olympique (Biarritz)
Club Sportif de Bourgoin-Jailleu (Bourgoin)
Section Paloise (Pau)
Stade Français (Paris)
Sporting Union Agenais (Agen)
Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan (Perpignan)
Football Club de Grenoble (Grenoble)
Association Sportive Montferrandaise (Montferrand)
Montauban Tarn et Garonne XV (Montauban)
Club Athlétique de Bègles-Bordeaux Gironde (Bordeaux)
Racing Club de Narbonne (Narbonne)
Castres Olympique (Castres)
Association Sportive Columiérine (Colomiers)
Association Sportive Bitteroise (Béziers)
Stade Montois (Mont-de-Marsan)

And a newly promoted, though an old timer of the french elite:
Club Athlétique Briviste (Brive)

Just for the pleasure here is the name of a legendary Pro D2 club:
Stadoceste Tarbais (Tarbes) "Stadoceste" meaning Stade in the almost forgotten local idiom... that was still spoken by our grand-fathers...

Note: many clubs (like Bordeaux, Montauban and Narbonne) have added the name of their Department or Region to their original name as these administrative entities have became their main sponsors. Most of the time I have not added these local names as they are recent additions that does not reflect the history of these clubs.

quote: BTW, Tamerlin, what does Stade mean in the context of the club's name? I know it means Stadium, but how does it translate in the context of the name?

You are right and there is no special translation, the Stade Toulousain would be the Toulousain's Stadium and the Stade Français the French Stadium... But here the word "Stade" should be understood as representing the institution that is the club, not the field and the area where the game is played. The fields themselves all have their own name.

For example: the field of the Stade Toulousain was called Stade des Sept Deniers until this year when it was renamed Stade Ernest Wallon (from the name of the founder of the Amicale des Supporters du Stade Toulousain, at the beginning of the 20th century, who still owns the field).

	13-05-2003 07:59									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Here are the full names of the Top 16 teams along with their town: Stade Toulousain (Toulouse) Biarritz Olympique (Biarritz) Club Sportif de Bourgoin-Jailleu (Bourgoin) Section Paloise (Pau) Stade Français (Paris) Sporting Union Agenais (Agen) Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan (Perpignan) Football Club de Grenoble (Grenoble) Association Sportive Montferrandaise (Montferrand) Montauban Tarn et Garonne XV (Montauban) Club Athlétique de Bègles-Bordeaux Gironde (Bordeaux) Racing Club de Narbonne (Narbonne) Castres Olympique (Castres) Association Sportive Columiérine (Colomiers) Association Sportive Bitteroise (Béziers) Stade Montois (Mont-de-Marsan) And a newly promoted, though an old timer of the french elite: Club Athlétique Briviste (Brive) Just for the pleasure here is the name of a legendary Pro D2 club: Stadoceste Tarbais (Tarbes) "Stadoceste" meaning Stade in the almost forgotten local idiom... that was still spoken by our grand-fathers...

There's some wonderfully poetic names in there. Typical of the French. Sydney's clubs are just named after the suburbs (or regions) in which they're based. Very boring!

quote: You are right and there is no special translation, the Stade Toulousain would be the Toulousain's Stadium and the Stade Français the French Stadium... But here the word "Stade" should be understood as representing the institution that is the club, not the field and the area where the game is played. The fields themselves all have their own name.

Yes, I guessed it had to be something like that.

	13-05-2003 13:12									#74
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quote: and it definitely wouldn't be Ulster, so it probably has to be Leinster. I must look into it.

Don’t forget Ireland is not segregated for Rugby – the national side is a combined one. In terms of provinces Leinster (Dublin) boys have played for Ulster and vice versa. Any Nationalistic pre-conceived hang ups Finny might have would be best left behind him should he head this way.

quote: Interestingly enough, they've both - Smith and Waugh - bulked up this season.

Didn’t think Waughy needed that? I seem to recall you telling me that Jones had asked Smithy to beef up?

You saw our young blindside in the autumn – do you reckon Smithy is up to that kind of physical challenge?

quote: What happened to the talk of the Bristol-Bath merger?

Bath scraped off the bottom making it irrelevant. I suspect it will happen regardless meaning mainly that Bristol will cease to exist as a Pro outfit and will re-surface in the lower leagues as amateur again. The combined Bath-Bristol outfit will be referred to simply as ‘Bath’.

As per my prediction just two days after Bath escaped the drop Rotherhams promotion has now been confirmed.

But of course the delay stopped them signing new player contracts so we have directly benefited by tempting away their Fly Half. I’m not pleased we have benefited from such a shameful situation – but by god we needed a new stand off (Vesty has promise but needs more games behind him, McMullen has good hands but tries these huge ACT cut out passes that gift tries to the oppo).

quote: Well, it's the area where - latest theory has it - King Arthur and Camelot, et al, were based. I'm not sure what that means, I just thought I'd toss it in.

It’s wrong anyway – he was based right on the southern end of Mercia as everyone there knows. Somewhere near a small town called Leicester.

In terms of rugby it means little as Glaws season has been built on a French Fly Half who is now walking out. Henry Paul at Fly next season boys? Relegation may threaten!

quote: Yes, that's one of the nice things about the game. And the test of the true rugby person.

Some of the 5000 extra season ticket holders we gained since the first title in 99 definitely do not qualify. Sadly. Hopefully a good amount of them will disappear making room for more rugby types.

quote: Oh, and it's about time you made an honest woman of her!

So she tells me.

quote: The ERC has been very harsh with the Sporting Union Agenais

A nice try Tamerlin but having seen the highlights of the offending game I think they were lucky to get off so lightly. I’ve never seen anything like it. Not trying is one thing but actively assisting the opposition to score???

quote: I am supporting you and your fellows Havak but I am afraid they don't care at all...

Unfortunately very true. I’m not going – not because I don’t want to support the lads but because I am protesting being charged for the fixture. I think the gate might shock the club to be honest.

quote: A man should never stop dreaming...

Dreaming is about all I have left this season.

quote: If they can quieten Carlos, the Blues will find the going more difficult.

As an outsider could I please ask that whoever the ref is he ensures this deadly duo close Carlos down legally please? If Finny or George set out to cripple him (as can be Finny’s want?) it make ACT no better than the teams Aussies always claim are looking to hurt Larkham?

quote: There's some wonderfully poetic names in there. Typical of the French

It’s a poetic language. Even cursing has a melodic quality. But in the final analaysis there are all named after where they are surely – just like yours and our teams?

	13-05-2003 17:59									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Don’t forget Ireland is not segregated for Rugby – the national side is a combined one. In terms of provinces Leinster (Dublin) boys have played for Ulster and vice versa. Any Nationalistic pre-conceived hang ups Finny might have would be best left behind him should he head this way.

I didn't realise it was combined. Good thing too. I checked - his Dad was born in Co Meath, his Mum in Co Cork. His siblings were all born in Ireland, he was born here.

quote: Didn’t think Waughy needed that? I seem to recall you telling me that Jones had asked Smithy to beef up?

Phil Waugh is now huge in the upper body. Yes, Smith was asked to beef up. He's a very solid lump now too.

quote: You saw our young blindside in the autumn – do you reckon Smithy is up to that kind of physical challenge?

What was his name?

quote: As per my prediction just two days after Bath escaped the drop Rotherhams promotion has now been confirmed.

So who or what gave Bath the clout to upset the promotion/relegation?

quote: McMullen has good hands but tries these huge ACT cut out passes that gift tries to the oppo

Well, he was at least third-string here. Still, the huge cut-out passes work for the Brumbies. Maybe you just need some players who can catch.

quote: It’s wrong anyway – he was based right on the southern end of Mercia as everyone there knows. Somewhere near a small town called Leicester.

Arise, Sir Havak.

quote: In terms of rugby it means little as Glaws season has been built on a French Fly Half who is now walking out. Henry Paul at Fly next season boys? Relegation may threaten!

Yes, I noticed Mercier is off to Grenoble. Oh well, one year in the limelight is better than nothing.

quote: As an outsider could I please ask that whoever the ref is he ensures this deadly duo close Carlos down legally please? If Finny or George set out to cripple him (as can be Finny’s want?) it make ACT no better than the teams Aussies always claim are looking to hurt Larkham?

They just have to put him under some pressure. He's been operating in an acre of space with a ton of time. Of course, for them to get the chance to apply some pressure, the Brumbie pack is going to have to really perform.

quote: It’s a poetic language. Even cursing has a melodic quality. But in the final analaysis there are all named after where they are surely – just like yours and our teams?

It's more than just the place names, it's the other lovely bits they attach to them -

Club Sportif de Bourgoin-Jailleu (Bourgoin)

Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan (Perpignan)

Montauban Tarn et Garonne XV (Montauban)

Racing Club de Narbonne (Narbonne)

Club Athlétique Briviste (Brive)

Beats the crap out of Leicester and Randwick.

	13-05-2003 18:51									#76
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quote: What was his name?

Lewis Moody

quote: So who or what gave Bath the clout to upset the promotion/relegation?

Nothing more (or less) than old friends in the old boys club (RFU) I suspect.

quote: Maybe you just need some players who can catch.

Tell me about it. Leon Lloyd take a bow.

quote: Arise, Sir Havak.

Heck no – my ancestors would have been the poor Billmen going up against the Knights with nothing more than a crop cutting tool. Still one or two must have survived a while at least.

quote: Oh well, one year in the limelight is better than nothing.

One year in the limelight. Now come Fifty of them telling us all about the one year.

quote: They just have to put him under some pressure. He's been operating in an acre of space with a ton of time.

I thought there were good quality flankers down south???

quote: It's more than just the place names, it's the other lovely bits they attach to them

Boirgoin Sporting Club
Perpignan Harlequins Sporting Union
Narbonne Racing club
Brive Althetic club.
And...somewhere else.

It’s the language Finbar, the actual names are just as bland when translated.

Personally I prefer London Wasps, Harlequins, Leicester Tigers, Northampton Saints, Exiles etc. And you tell me where Saracens play from the name alone?? Plus most of the teams have had these names since their inception (Some are made up like Sale Sharks).

Plus our stadiums can be just as obscure – Franklins Gardens, The Stoop, Adams Park and of course Welford Road (more than just a street – a shrine).

Then there’s Ireland – Garyowen and Donnybrook…

Now then who are we supporting in the final? It needs balance in the thread so I’ll have to go for USAP.

*Havak runs for cover*

	13-05-2003 19:17									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Lewis Moody

Oh yes. Good player. Looked taller than Smith. Definitely taller than Waugh.

quote: Heck no – my ancestors would have been the poor Billmen going up against the Knights with nothing more than a crop cutting tool.

Yeah yeah, picking the lock on Guinevere's chastity belt, more likely.

quote: Still one or two must have survived a while at least.

In the light of the immediately above, you've probably got royal corpuscles burrowing through your veins.

quote: I thought there were good quality flankers down south???

You'd've thought that, but he's got away with murder. To be fair, the Blues' pack has been terrific, and when the team is on song, they're very very impressive. Quite different to the Crusaders in their dominant year last year - they tended to wear teams down - where the Blues can be a real powerhouse. Carlos has been playing deep, too, which has let him do what he's done. If he can be controlled, though - to whatever extent - it will hurt them, apart from his control of the backs, because he's literally their only kicker.

quote: It’s the language Finbar, the actual names are just as bland when translated.

Of course it's the language. As I said, it's poetry.

quote: Personally I prefer London Wasps, Harlequins, Leicester Tigers, Northampton Saints, Exiles etc. And you tell me where Saracens play from the name alone?? Plus most of the teams have had these names since their inception (Some are made up like Sale Sharks).

Sorry. Give me the French!

quote: Plus our stadiums can be just as obscure – Franklins Gardens, The Stoop, Adams Park and of course Welford Road

Mmmm. Well, we've got Ballymore in Brisbane, not that it's entirely original anyway. And they're moving rugby away from the ground to the rebuilt Lang Park! In Sydney, of course, we have ... sigh ... Aussie Stadium (sponsored by Aussie Home Loans, a hom mortgage outfit) and Telstra Stadium ...

quote: (more than just a street – a shrine).

You must have been a big hit in Sunday School.

SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER: Now, young Havak, who was crucified on Good Friday?

HAVAK: Please, Miss, J**** was, Miss, that opponent kept hitting his head against J****'s boot.

quote: Now then who are we supporting in the final? It needs balance in the thread so I’ll have to go for USAP.

With Manny Edmonds lining up for Perpignan, I have a huge conflict of interest.

	14-05-2003 07:22									#78
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quote: Originally posted by finbar As this morning's rugby media pointed out, Larkham's absence might be - dare I say it? - a minor blessing in disguise.

Yeah, they also reckon it was a blessing in disguise that the Waratahs didn't make it. Pretty thin disguise...

	14-05-2003 11:05									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Yeah, they also reckon it was a blessing in disguise that the Waratahs didn't make it. Pretty thin disguise...

They're trying desperately to be optimistic. The reality is that the Waratahs would have been hammered. Which isn't to say that the Brumbies won't be, but, of the Oz S12 teams, the Brumbies would have the most chance of beating the Blues.

	14-05-2003 13:15									#80
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quote: Oh yes. Good player. Looked taller than Smith. Definitely taller than Waugh.

He’s a very good players yes. Unfortunately he seems to have recurrent shoulder problems – I hope he throws them. He is reminiscent of a young Martin Corry and, dare I say it, a young Josh Kronfeld – and neither of those are bad things. He has learnt a lot playing with both at Tigers.

quote: Yeah yeah, picking the lock on Guinevere's chastity belt, more likely.

Dreaming about it probably. We’ve always had the ‘optimisitic beyond all reason’ gene.

quote: In the light of the immediately above, you've probably got royal corpuscles burrowing through your veins.

If I have they pre-date the Norman invasion (my surname is pure Saxon).

quote: You'd've thought that, but he's got away with murder

Yes I guess most competent Flys can look good with time and space. But if he is facing a team with Smith and Finny in it he shouldn’t really get that now should he? Then again they must have played already – where and who won?

quote: Sorry. Give me the French!

Sacre bleu!

quote: we have ... sigh ... Aussie Stadium (sponsored by Aussie Home Loans, a hom mortgage outfit) and Telstra Stadium ...

Yes I share your distaste for sponsored stadiums. Sadly it is creeping in here with stands now generally sponsored if possible – the members stand at Tigers has been the NEXT stand for several years now and the new stand (only about ten years old) is the Alliance and Leicester (a local bank). Sheesh.

quote: You must have been a big hit in Sunday School.

In more ways than one.

And I swear you has a camera tracking me in my youth!

quote: With Manny Edmonds lining up for Perpignan, I have a huge conflict of interest.

And with Luger and Robertson heading that way it could be Tamerlin is left on his own?

quote: Yeah, they also reckon it was a blessing in disguise that the Waratahs didn't make it. Pretty thin disguise...

I see that as Finbar told us he would Bob has indeed walked away this week.

So there was another new signing for us yesterday – Darren Morris who played tight head in all three tests for the Lions in 2001. He’s a great player when fit – can play either side of the coal face, tops nineteen stone and yet is hugely athletic. However he walked from Swansea two months ago after a bust up (I think that was with Connelly shortly before he too got booted? Might be wrong) and from what I hear he is nowhere near fit right now. A big pre-season is needed from the boy – but if anyone can knock him into shape it’s our forwards coach Wellsy.

And disturbing rumours Finbar - Deano has hinted the new backs coach may come from inside the club. I’m struggling to imagine who that would be – maybe Glen Gelderbloom our long time resident Bok – or more disturbingly it’s been suggested it might be Austin – the horror!!!

Also a rumour gaining ground is that Austin has had a huge bust up with the management and has played his last for us. The trouble is rumours can be smoke without fire until the club makes a statement.

	14-05-2003 16:44									#81
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From a BBC report on the mass exodus from Bristol:

quote: Former All Blacks centre Daryl Gibson is also expected to leave, with Leicester a possible destination.

	14-05-2003 17:01									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Sacre bleu!

Fichtre !

quote: Yes I share your distaste for sponsored stadiums. Sadly it is creeping in here with stands now generally sponsored if possible – the members stand at Tigers has been the NEXT stand for several years now and the new stand (only about ten years old) is the Alliance and Leicester (a local bank). Sheesh.

I fear that this is only a matter of time before this kind of heresies appear in France...

quote: And with Luger and Robertson heading that way it could be Tamerlin is left on his own?

This THE test, Finbar, are you a real supporter of the Stade Toulousain?

quote: And disturbing rumours Finbar - Deano has hinted the new backs coach may come from inside the club. I’m struggling to imagine who that would be – maybe Glen Gelderbloom our long time resident Bok – or more disturbingly it’s been suggested it might be Austin – the horror!!! Also a rumour gaining ground is that Austin has had a huge bust up with the management and has played his last for us. The trouble is rumours can be smoke without fire until the club makes a statement.

The Tigers are in turmoil, it seems you are about to live another black year Havack...

Are there young talents emerging from the club "nursery", I would be glad to hear it is the case as this is what has allowed the Stade Toulousain to recover and get out rather quickly of a tricky situation very similar to your own.

	14-05-2003 18:11									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Havak He has learnt a lot playing with both at Tigers.

Yes, learning how to lose is great character-building stuff.

quote: Dreaming about it probably. We’ve always had the ‘optimisitic beyond all reason’ gene.

Tigers supporters since Saxon times then?

quote: Yes I guess most competent Flys can look good with time and space. But if he is facing a team with Smith and Finny in it he shouldn’t really get that now should he? Then again they must have played already – where and who won?

Blues 41 -d- Brumbies 15 in Auckland back in March. Smith played, Finegan didn't. He's only been back two weeks. I remember the match well. Brumbies' #8 got himself sin-binned and the Blues stacked on double-digit points while he was off. Played in appalling wet conditions, except no one told the flying Fijian winger Caucau, who scored two tries featuring astonishing ball-handling and stepping that belied the conditions.

This time, though, the Brumbies have Finegan and the Blues don't have Caucau.

quote: I see that as Finbar told us he would Bob has indeed walked away this week.

And, typically for NSW rugby, the search for the new coach is already mired in politics and infighting. The unspeakable Alan Jones, former Wallaby coach, now ultra right-wing talkback radio host and interferer in just about everything, has taken a set against both Eddie Jones and Bob Dwyer. He (A. Jones) is moving heaven and earth to make sure E. Jones' and Dwyer's preferred choice doesn't get the gig.

How can a talkback radio host have that much influence? He has, sadly, a massive, massive following in Sydney. He has the ear of the State Premier. When he took a set against the Police Commissioner, he used his radio show to villify the man to the extent that the Premier sacked him. So too the Police Minister. And the Premier sent the new Police Minister to meet A. Jones to get his approval. That's the influence he has. He's now applying the same pressure to the people at NSW rugby HQ. Despicable slug. The man who, while Wallaby coach, singlehandedly drove the Ella Brothers into early retirement.

quote: However he walked from Swansea two months ago after a bust up (I think that was with Connelly shortly before he too got booted? Might be wrong)

I thought "Knuckles" went at the end of last season.

quote: And disturbing rumours Finbar - Deano has hinted the new backs coach may come from inside the club. I’m struggling to imagine who that would be – maybe Glen Gelderbloom our long time resident Bok – or more disturbingly it’s been suggested it might be Austin – the horror!!!

If I were you, I'd check out the price of a Gloucester membership. Or failing that, Bath.

quote: Also a rumour gaining ground is that Austin has had a huge bust up with the management and has played his last for us. The trouble is rumours can be smoke without fire until the club makes a statement.

Fingers crossed for a firestorm.

	15-05-2003 12:58									#84
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Were you swearing there Tamerlin?

quote: The Tigers are in turmoil, it seems you are about to live another black year Havack...

The first sixty minutes last night certainly suggested this is true – more on that later…

quote: Are there young talents emerging from the club "nursery", I would be glad to hear it is the case as this is what has allowed the Stade Toulousain to recover and get out rather quickly of a tricky situation very similar to your own.

Yes we have a strong youth system. There are some talented young lads coming through. The problem is some of the incumbent backs are not good enough – and the young lads are too green. What we need is a seasoned man in the mid field to play with and bring the young lads on. Herbert would have been ideal – Gibson would be great too.

quote: Yes, learning how to lose is great character-building stuff.

Then my character is truly fifty stories high by now.

quote: Tigers supporters since Saxon times then?

But of course.

quote: This time, though, the Brumbies have Finegan and the Blues don't have Caucau.

This should make things nice and interesting.

quote: How can a talkback radio host have that much influence?

I really don’t know. It can’t be healthy for the Democratic process can it? This is the guy who preceded Bob at the Wallabies helm – some of your darker days in modern times – I do recall you mentioning him before.

But here’s the thing – nothing lasts forever. His popularity will slip, he’ll lose the ear of the important and he’ll end up another sad ranting old man.

quote: I thought "Knuckles" went at the end of last season.

You may be right – this season has passed in a blur for me.

quote: If I were you, I'd check out the price of a Gloucester membership. Or failing that, Bath.

Just as soon as you do the same at Tigers.

I’ll let you off for being Australian – were you from the six nations and suggesting club jumping I’d be citing you for heresy.

quote: Fingers crossed for a firestorm.

It’s actually rather sad in a way. By declaring two seasons ago he would now be a fly half he killed his career early and has certainly not helped Tigers (the lad he forced out by doing this, Andy Goode, got a bucket load of points for Sarries last night as they destroyed Leeds). The appointment of Pez has shown the club is over it’s Healey experiment at ten – the wingers are not a problem for us so he can’t go there and we now have one of the best young scrummies in England (Harry Ellis) so he can’t revert to there either. I can honestly see him leaving over the summer. Don’t be sad Finbar.

Okay the first game of the two handed wildcard semi final was last night at the stoop.
Another away game another loss. Quins 26 – Tigers 23. Two tries a piece and they were lucky that they have the reliable irish kicking machine Paul Burke playing for them.

I had to listen to it on the radio (TV showed the Sarries game). Picture me getting absolutely furious as all the old problems this season crashed us to trail 23-6 at 60 minutes. Fragile defence and centres not catching ball all over the shop. A Fly half throwing wild passes as if he had Aussie centres outside him. Heart stopping infuriating stuff. And poor Josh was captain for the night too. At 60 mins a certain lock jaw comes on and the game alters in pattern. We hold the ball more and build patiently, grinding the opposing pack down. Within five minutes we’ve sucked the extra man into a defending maul and the ball pops out to Murphy who weaves his way past the lock now in the defensive pattern for a brilliant solo score of over 50 metres.

We keep the pressure on and the forwards crash over again near the death. Only a drop goal from Burke gave Quins the lead into the second leg.

I’m both pleased and annoyed. Pleased the team can be resilient and recover on the pitch. Angry that they rely so heavily on one man to run the show on the field. Josh is a great and experienced player – he knew what needed doing so the question is – why didn’t he get a grip on it earlier?

The second leg is on Sunday afternoon - last season beating Quins at home by over a three point margin would have been a no brainer. This season who knows?

In Sarries huge 57-21 Destruction of Leeds there was a swan song try for Horan by the way. Two more games left for the legend (unless Leeds perform miracles in the return leg).

Also the gate at both these games was less than 3000. Like Tigers both clubs tried to charge season ticket holders for these extra games. It will be interesting to see the gate on Sunday – I’m betting we get 5000 or so (our average gate this season has been 16800). It won’t help the greedy club that the game is live on BBC2.

	15-05-2003 14:19									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I really don’t know. It can’t be healthy for the Democratic process can it? This is the guy who preceded Bob at the Wallabies helm – some of your darker days in modern times – I do recall you mentioning him before.

He did have Wallaby success - the Grand Slam tour - but his methods soon wore thin. His basic approach was to divide and conquer the team - play favourites within the team, denigrate others. It gave him a sort of control. But with its obvious downsides. He's never forgiven the ARU for sacking him.

quote: But here’s the thing – nothing lasts forever. His popularity will slip, he’ll lose the ear of the important and he’ll end up another sad ranting old man.

Sadly, that's unlikely. He speaks to the Great Ignorant Unwashed, there are many of them, and they breed like rabbits.

quote: It’s actually rather sad in a way.

No it's not.

quote: Don’t be sad Finbar.

Should he happen to die rather suddenly, please make a note of the cemetery. Oh, and the grave number. I shall turn up with dancing shoes.

quote: I had to listen to it on the radio (TV showed the Sarries game). Picture me getting absolutely furious

No thanks, not before I've had my dinner. My stomach is weak when empty. Oh, and no wonder she won't marry you.

quote: At 60 mins a certain lock jaw comes on and the game alters in pattern.

Playing the first 60 minutes without him? A luxury I wouldn't have thought you could afford.

quote: Angry that they rely so heavily on one man to run the show on the field. Josh is a great and experienced player – he knew what needed doing so the question is – why didn’t he get a grip on it earlier?

Well, yes. And why wasn't Lantern Jaw on earlier?

quote: In Sarries huge 57-21 Destruction of Leeds there was a swan song try for Horan by the way. Two more games left for the legend (unless Leeds perform miracles in the return leg).

I'm amazed he lasted so long.

quote: Also the gate at both these games was less than 3000. Like Tigers both clubs tried to charge season ticket holders for these extra games. It will be interesting to see the gate on Sunday – I’m betting we get 5000 or so (our average gate this season has been 16800). It won’t help the greedy club that the game is live on BBC2.

Serves the greedy bastards right!

	15-05-2003 16:04									#86
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quote: He's never forgiven the ARU for sacking him.

Well that can stick in a man’s craw – but one has to move on eventually.

quote: Sadly, that's unlikely. He speaks to the Great Ignorant Unwashed, there are many of them, and they breed like rabbits.

A sad truth. Like Sun readers here.

quote: Should he happen to die rather suddenly, please make a note of the cemetery. Oh, and the grave number. I shall turn up with dancing shoes.

He surely made a huge impression on you did the boy.

The thing is some of the views he expressed are very close to some you yourself have aired here about your nation and compatriots. Is it because he is an outsider saying it?

quote: Oh, and no wonder she won't marry you.

I only get angry about sport. And idiots. And not being able to get served at the bar. Apart from that I’m placid and quite gentle.

quote: Playing the first 60 minutes without him? A luxury I wouldn't have thought you could afford.

Hence the anger. Five first team players shone the bench at the start. The tight head he fielded hadn’t started a game all season and one of the locks is off to France after the weekend. It was a scratch team and smacked of a holding action with a view to increasing the gate Sunday. It nearly back fired totally.

quote: Well, yes. And why wasn't Lantern Jaw on earlier?

I’d like to ask Deano that myself.

quote: I'm amazed he lasted so long.

The secret has been he has hardly played up here. Got injured early on and it recurred. Last season was almost a total write off for him with a leg injury – this season he has been in and out with niggles. Its time for him to bow out – but you can still see the class he has been.

quote: Serves the greedy bastards right!

Well said.

	15-05-2003 17:09									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Were you swearing there Tamerlin?

Never!

quote: Yes we have a strong youth system. There are some talented young lads coming through. The problem is some of the incumbent backs are not good enough – and the young lads are too green. What we need is a seasoned man in the mid field to play with and bring the young lads on.

Like... Austin Healey?

	15-05-2003 17:44									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well that can stick in a man’s craw – but one has to move on eventually.

I know I've told the story before but it bears retelling. A. Jones is the man who, when arrested for soliciting in a men's toilet in London, called on friends in very high places to have the whole matter squashed. Bastard.

quote: He surely made a huge impression on you did the boy.

As you say below, no time for idiots.

quote: The thing is some of the views he expressed are very close to some you yourself have aired here about your nation and compatriots. Is it because he is an outsider saying it?

He struck it lucky with a couple of clichés. Give a thousand Austin Healys a thousand typewriters and they will eventually sh*t in their hands and throw it at you.

quote: I only get angry about sport. And idiots. And not being able to get served at the bar. Apart from that I’m placid and quite gentle.

The Armchair Sportsman's trifecta!

quote: Hence the anger. Five first team players shone the bench at the start. The tight head he fielded hadn’t started a game all season and one of the locks is off to France after the weekend. It was a scratch team and smacked of a holding action with a view to increasing the gate Sunday. It nearly back fired totally.

I'm beginning to think your coach has delusions born out of arrogance.

quote: The secret has been he has hardly played up here. Got injured early on and it recurred. Last season was almost a total write off for him with a leg injury – this season he has been in and out with niggles. Its time for him to bow out – but you can still see the class he has been.

Yes, and regardless of injury, he stuck it out longer than his old sidekick. A rare talent is - or was - Timmy. And he came back from one of the worst knee injuries you could imagine. Yet another one of Bob's discoveries.

	15-05-2003 20:03									#89
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quote: Like... Austin Healey?

Tut Tut Tamerlin – trying to set Finbar off on a rant again?

quote: A. Jones is the man who, when arrested for soliciting in a men's toilet in London, called on friends in very high places to have the whole matter squashed

I’d totally forgotten this!!!

quote: He struck it lucky with a couple of clichés

It’s fair enough. He does come across as arrogant in person even. He is very self assured. His saving grace was he is a very talented player. But then he suddenly convinced himself he could be Wilko and ruined his career. If he plays again I hope he has the sense to go back to scrummy.

Trifecta’s now Finbar? An expression much loved of the Morning Herald I recall – who like Aussie sporting successes to come in threes and will often ignore failures totally so as not to ruin the trifecta ambience.

quote: I'm beginning to think your coach has delusions born out of arrogance.

he is a hell of a nice guy, was a great player and has had huge success as a coach. But he’s never been tested like this season. So I’m open minded. I don’t think it’s arrogance (it simply does not match his personality – and yes I have talked to him on several occasions). But I think he has allowed positional errors this season. Not least Austin returning from injury at Fly.

What you want to do is drop by our club messageboard. There’s a core of Ostriches there who will pounce on you and try to rip you to shreds for even vaguely criticising Dean. Apparently he and the coaches are beyond all criticism because they have won stuff before. The poor fools would be easy meat for you.

The injury that sidelined Tim up here was knee again. Little was his sidekick? He wasted his time up here too – they both did in fact. Little joined Glaws and then left before Melville arrived and turned them into a Championship team. He went to Bristol just as their owner started throwing his rattle out the pram about how much cash he was losing. I believe he is back home now and fully retired?

	15-05-2003 22:57									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Yes we have a strong youth system. There are some talented young lads coming through. The problem is some of the incumbent backs are not good enough – and the young lads are too green. What we need is a seasoned man in the mid field to play with and bring the young lads on. Herbert would have been ideal – Gibson would be great too.

The new guard could well be the salvation of the Tigers. The zenith and then the departure of an exceptional generation (like the Stade Toulousain from 1996-2001) is a very difficult thing to manage. The coaches have some very difficult and heart breaking decisions to take and enforce. In order to succesfully manage the transition the coaches must gradually evince the players that have won prestigious titles and must give new players their chance, young players who have everything to prove and must withstand a considerable pressure. But the new players must be managed on the field by older players who have an invaluable knowledge that can only acquired through experience. This is more of an alchemy than anything else... and a damn difficult one to master.

The victory of the Stade Toulousain in the 2000/2001 French Championship (players like Frédéric Michalack, Clément Poitrenaud, Jean Bouilhou, David Gérard, Nicolas Jeanjean have literally "hatched" during the final against the Association Sportive Montferrandaise) is the perfect example of what can be achieved. Though the 2001/2002 season has proved the alchemy was not yet totally accomplished... and there are still some blunders this year (the game against the Sporting Union Agenais at the Stade Armandie and the first game of the Play-Off against the Biarritz Olympique at the Stade d'Aguiléra). I must admit we are a difficult crowd as we does not expect our beloved team to lose whatever the opponent, be it away or at home....

IMO, the fact that Deano has played with some of the players he must push out of the A team does not help...