16-05-2003 04:20									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Tut Tut Tamerlin – trying to set Finbar off on a rant again?

Tamerlin's my straight man.

quote: I’d totally forgotten this!!!

So has he. Thus his relentless pious moralising about personal standards ranks up there with the great hypocrisies.

quote: It’s fair enough. He does come across as arrogant in person even. He is very self assured. His saving grace was he is a very talented player. But then he suddenly convinced himself he could be Wilko and ruined his career. If he plays again I hope he has the sense to go back to scrummy.

If he goes, who would take him on?

quote: Trifecta’s now Finbar? An expression much loved of the Morning Herald I recall – who like Aussie sporting successes to come in threes and will often ignore failures totally so as not to ruin the trifecta ambience.

In which case, it's not, by definition, a trifecta.

quote: he is a hell of a nice guy, was a great player and has had huge success as a coach. But he’s never been tested like this season. So I’m open minded. I don’t think it’s arrogance (it simply does not match his personality – and yes I have talked to him on several occasions). But I think he has allowed positional errors this season. Not least Austin returning from injury at Fly.

As you say, he hasn't been tested like this before. Good players playing well - with good onfield leadership - can make a coach look good. We shall see.

quote: What you want to do is drop by our club messageboard. There’s a core of Ostriches there who will pounce on you and try to rip you to shreds for even vaguely criticising Dean. Apparently he and the coaches are beyond all criticism because they have won stuff before. The poor fools would be easy meat for you.

Mmmm. My nostrils quiver as I scent blood. What's the URL?

quote: The injury that sidelined Tim up here was knee again. Little was his sidekick? He wasted his time up here too – they both did in fact. Little joined Glaws and then left before Melville arrived and turned them into a Championship team. He went to Bristol just as their owner started throwing his rattle out the pram about how much cash he was losing. I believe he is back home now and fully retired?

Yes, Jason Little eventually came home saying he'd had enough of the terrible weather. In fact, he's now on the panel to select the new Waratahs coach. I have no doubt the primary motive for their moves to the NH was money, on top of which Tim Horan just loved playing rugby. Couldn't get enough of it.

More injury doom and gloom in the Brumbie and Wallaby worlds. Matt Giteau, to replace injured Steve Larkham at #10 against the Blues on the weekend as a try out for the same spot with the Wallabies, has two knee fractures. Winger Andrew Walker will also miss with a wrenched knee.

Thus #10 against the Blues is said to be spare-parts winger Mark Bartholomeusz because there's no one else available. Pat Howard will start in the centres. I would hope, though, that Howard will play #10, with Batholomeusz in the centres. Regardless, it simply makes their job against the Blues even harder.

For the Wallabies, though, it means Elton Flatley will line up at #10 in the trial tests because there's no one else. Flatley has obviously played there before and is solid but nothing more.

Check out this list of injuries with none of them guaranteed to be fit for the trial tests: Steve Larkham, Chris Latham, Stirling Mortlock, Matt Rogers and Ben Tune.

	16-05-2003 13:26									#92
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quote: This is more of an alchemy than anything else... and a damn difficult one to master.

Very true Tamerlin. And you certainly named some class players there

The problem is one needs to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. There are some areas where we don’t need huge changes – the forwards are still doing the job. Okay the new SH rucking interpretations are causing us problems – “don’t put your feet anywhere near the poor little lad who accidentally got himself the wrong side” yeah right – but we still achieve majority possession. I can only recall two games this season where we didn’t – and one of those was the game where Glaws cheated so much it was embarrassing. Then again I did mention at the start of the season that the arrival of Dean Ryan to Glaws would turn the forwards into cheats and thugs – and hey presto.

In conclusion – some augmenting at the coalface and a hooker who throws a bit better is all we might need there.

What we need is a better ten – and Pez looks the answer there – and maybe one more scrummy. But the gaping hole in quality is in the centres – and unless a world class man can be singed there I think we will have young men having to make a huge step up there next season. He can’t persist with Tuilagi and Lloyd (please!).

quote: IMO, the fact that Deano has played with some of the players he must push out of the A team does not help...

I remain reluctant to really get in and criticise Deano – but I ‘ve heard it said he has persisted with the easy choices – retaining players that even I can see are out of sorts – simply because of their history and potential.

As you say the acid test is coming. I’ll forgive him a bad season if he shows me he has the coaching nounce to start the recovery.

quote: Tamerlin's my straight man.

Now there is an expression that could cause problems in the second language interpretation.

quote: Thus his relentless pious moralising about personal standards ranks up there with the great hypocrisies.

Isn’t it strange how this happens. It’s born again syndrome (and I don’t mean purely religious) like those who used to smoke being utterly vitriolic to those who still do and how those who were conservative now claim to have always been new labour. Oh no that’s slightly different isn’t it? Still it let me get a cheap shot in on party hoppers.

By the way I never did mention how funny it was watching Howard trying to make small talk with Her Maj when the news about the Wessex freeloaders baby broke.

quote: If he goes, who would take him on?

You’d be surprised. I suspect he would prefer Sale (it’s the only top club ‘near’ his ‘home’ area of the Wirral). This is England – we have an endless stream of petulant difficult idiotic s***** players and someone else always pays stupid money for them before finding out that yes all the rumours were true after all.

quote: In which case, it's not, by definition, a trifecta.

Tirfecta is a perfect triple right? I have got that right?

Tell your media the definition. I’ve seen first hand how they totally ignore bad sporting news. Don’t they call it accentuating the positive?

quote: Mmmm. My nostrils quiver as I scent blood. What's the URL?

www.tigers.co.uk and choose the message board. It’s easy to register and suicidally not moderated.

quote: I have no doubt the primary motive for their moves to the NH was money, on top of which Tim Horan just loved playing rugby. Couldn't get enough of it.

Surely not the money but rather the challenge of playing to the laws. Tim adapted better in that way.

The weather can be a huge shock for Aussies. Kiwis it doesn’t bother as much (and then again why would it). Pat Howard was amazed at the condition we played in when he arrived. By his last winter he was out running with full pack in a blizzard.

I’m very sorry to hear about Giteau – so he and Larkham will both not be available for the England test. Wilko re-iterated yesterday that he wants to play a full role in the SH tour but Woodward has not commented. Lets face it we all wanted to see Wilko-Larkham and Wilko-Mehrts though I do wonder if it may be Wilko-Spencer now?

Has Walker been forgiven for his various walk outs then? I didn’t realise he was back in Wallaby contention? I like the guy – the memory of Jason Robinson skinning him for the Lions will live as long in my memory as that of Flatley returning the favour. Typically Aussie of course returning the favour to England rather than the other Lions nations.

Interesting to see Pat getting a start maybe. The French club Montferand is claiming that he has all but signed for them for next season – do you know if there is any truth in that Finbar? If he does sign for them there is a real chance we could court him away like we did McMullen – yes I’m being selfish again.

That is some butchers bill in the back line. To be honest we have no idea who will be going but it could be a full strength side because the squad they have named for the North American trip is tertiary – 15 uncapped players included.

And of course why have warm up games if you don’t play your RWC team – what do they tell you otherwise? Still that’s probably too logical for rugby.

	16-05-2003 13:44									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Tirfecta is a perfect triple right? I have got that right?

Careful Havak. He'll be down on that like a ton of heavy brick-shaped things.

On topic: Go blues!

	16-05-2003 18:35									#94
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Thanks for that Ravagon - it's sage advice.

I did of course mean Trifecta.

	16-05-2003 20:03									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I’ll forgive him a bad season if he shows me he has the coaching nounce to start the recovery.

That's what it boils down to. As I said, a team containing good players, with strong onfield leadership, doesn't really need coaching, per se. It's more guidance and fine-tuning. Which is a bit different to what's required when a team lacks one or other of the above.

quote: Now there is an expression that could cause problems in the second language interpretation.

Yes, particularly contained in the same post as references to A. Jones.

quote: Isn’t it strange how this happens. It’s born again syndrome (and I don’t mean purely religious) like those who used to smoke being utterly vitriolic to those who still do

I prefer to think of it as rank hypocrisy.

quote: and how those who were conservative now claim to have always been new labour. Oh no that’s slightly different isn’t it? Still it let me get a cheap shot in on party hoppers.

Have you ever been able to understand the notion of the "swinging voter"? I haven't.

quote: By the way I never did mention how funny it was watching Howard trying to make small talk with Her Maj when the news about the Wessex freeloaders baby broke.

I didn't see it. Pity. I hope the miserable little sodding toad catches a fatal dose of SARS.

quote: Tirfecta is a perfect triple right? I have got that right?

I notice the Transplanted Kiwi got in ahead of me. It's Friday. He must be back with his El Cheapo Friday Only ISP. A trifecta is three in a row.

quote: www.tigers.co.uk and choose the message board. It’s easy to register and suicidally not moderated.

Mmmmmm. I must check it out. See if I can start an International Incident.

quote: I’m very sorry to hear about Giteau – so he and Larkham will both not be available for the England test.

That's right. It will be Flatley, unless someone comes from the clouds, but, frankly, there isn't anyone. Poor old Steve Larkham has had an ordinary season. I think he's battle-weary. The risk you take when you've got the frame he has and play the game he does.

quote: Wilko re-iterated yesterday that he wants to play a full role in the SH tour but Woodward has not commented. Lets face it we all wanted to see Wilko-Larkham and Wilko-Mehrts though I do wonder if it may be Wilko-Spencer now?

Mehrtens sat on the bench for the Crusaders -v- the Hurricanes S12 semi-final tonight - BTW, won comfortably by the Crusaders. The Hurricanes went off the boil two weeks ago and never recaptured what they had. Mehrtens has had a couple of weeks out with injury. If Carlos keeps up the form, it will be hard for the AB selectors to go past him. But, as someone pointed out in the media today, there's a big difference between S12 and Test rugby. Still, he deserves a shot at it.

quote: Has Walker been forgiven for his various walk outs then? I didn’t realise he was back in Wallaby contention?

I was only talking about the Brumbies missing him for tomorrow night. He's in fine form, a regular try scorer, but he's primarily a winger and the Wallabies aren't short of wingers. Although he can play full back and, with Latham and Rogers both injuried, I suppose he could be a candidate there. In fact, he's got a very good brain and good skills - I wonder whether he might be worth a try at #10. It's hard to know where he stands with Eddie Jones now after his, um, problems - which are, unfortunately, a combination of alcohol and culture. Eddie was his coach at the Brumbies so he knows him well.

quote: Interesting to see Pat getting a start maybe. The French club Montferand is claiming that he has all but signed for them for next season – do you know if there is any truth in that Finbar?

Haven't heard a word about it. Not even a rumor. And that sort of information spreads pretty quickly. I'll inquire. But if your mail about his return being spouse-related was right, it's hard to believe he would go back. Unless some agreement has been reached.

	16-05-2003 20:07									#96
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Careful Havak. He'll be down on that like a ton of heavy brick-shaped things.

"A ton of clay-based building materials" would have been a better line.

	16-05-2003 20:38									#97
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Yes, particularly contained in the same post as references to A. Jones.

The great advantage of being French and thus of English not being my native language is that I can always claim I don't understand what you are writing.

	17-05-2003 00:52									#98
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quote: Mehrtens sat on the bench for the Crusaders -v- the Hurricanes S12 semi-final tonight - BTW, won comfortably by the Crusaders. The Hurricanes went off the boil two weeks ago and never recaptured what they had. Mehrtens has had a couple of weeks out with injury. If Carlos keeps up the form, it will be hard for the AB selectors to go past him. But, as someone pointed out in the media today, there's a big difference between S12 and Test rugby. Still, he deserves a shot at it.

John Mitchell has said that the ABs for the first warm-ups will be selected on Super 12 form. IOW Spencer will be at 1st 5/8s for the first few games at least. I think Daniel Carter for the Crusaders, in his first S12 season, has really come of age and deserves at least a place in the ABs.

	17-05-2003 07:19									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy John Mitchell has said that the ABs for the first warm-ups will be selected on Super 12 form. IOW Spencer will be at 1st 5/8s for the first few games at least.

I agree. The interesting question is who will partner him at scrum half.

quote: I think Daniel Carter for the Crusaders, in his first S12 season, has really come of age and deserves at least a place in the ABs.

Yes, he's one of a number of promising young players. The Kiwis have produced quite a few this season.

	17-05-2003 07:20									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin The great advantage of being French and thus of English not being my native language is that I can always claim I don't understand what you are writing.

And vice versa!

	17-05-2003 07:35									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy John Mitchell has said that the ABs for the first warm-ups will be selected on Super 12 form. IOW Spencer will be at 1st 5/8s for the first few games at least. I think Daniel Carter for the Crusaders, in his first S12 season, has really come of age and deserves at least a place in the ABs.

Definitely

I normally like the way Peter Marshall referees, but he was a bit pedantic this time...I guess he must be getting jumpy with thoughts of the RWC in the back of his mind.

As for the final...if the Brumbies beat the Blues I reckon they will definitely lose to the Crusaders in the final. Only the Blues firing on all cylinders can beat the Crusaders now.

	17-05-2003 07:43									#102
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Oh, I heard an interesting statistic from the commentator - no NZ super 12 team has ever lost a home semi-final - GO BLUES!!!

	17-05-2003 13:33									#103
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Halftime:

Blues 22
Brumbies 0

Interesting match. A relatively even first 20 minutes with the Brumbies more than competitive, but the next 15 minutes saw the Blues stack on the points. The last 5 minutes were, again, relatively even. The Brumbies have flubbed a couple of opportunities with misunderstandings between Howard and Batholomeusz at first and second receiver, but they've never played together in those positions before. One gets the feeling, though, that the Blues could explode at any time.

	17-05-2003 14:33									#104
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Final score:

Blues 42 -d- Brumbies 21

The Blues didn't explode. The Brumbies matched - and arguably outplayed them - in the second half. The Brumbies coordinated better in mid-field, applied enormous pressure, and the passes stuck. But you can't give away a 22 points start and hope to win a match. Blues scrum half Steve Devine was carried off on a stretcher after a head clash in the closing minutes. He had a fine game. Pity about his completely unnecessary actions throughout - pushing Gregan into the fence with the ball out of play, throwing the ball at an opponent's head after he'd scored a try.

George Smith had an outstanding all-round game for the Brumbies and must be just about a certainty for the Wallaby openside position.

	17-05-2003 14:55									#105
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Afraid I've lost track lately. Are the Waratahs in the picture now?

	17-05-2003 19:13									#106
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar Afraid I've lost track lately. Are the Waratahs in the picture now?

Far from it. Last weekend they only had to beat the lowly Chiefs and achieve a bonus point in the process to make the S12 semi-finals. They won, but couldn't manage the bonus point. Given that they had ample chances to pick up the bonus point, and blew them all either through panic or ineptitude, it was a pathetic effort.

	17-05-2003 19:16									#107
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hey if you have time to post crap here, you have time to play civ

	17-05-2003 19:53									#108
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Final score: Blues 42 -d- Brumbies 21 The Blues didn't explode. The Brumbies matched - and arguably outplayed them - in the second half.

I would argue they didn't. They got one more point in the second half than the Blues, but there was a very harsh call on Sam Tuitupou after he ripped the ball away from a tackled Brumbie. For some reason the ref penalized him, even though he was on his feet the whole time, and the Brumbies scored from the 5-metre lineout. Any idea what that was all about?

	17-05-2003 19:59									#109
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Far from it. Last weekend they only had to beat the lowly Chiefs and achieve a bonus point in the process to make the S12 semi-finals. They won, but couldn't manage the bonus point. Given that they had ample chances to pick up the bonus point, and blew them all either through panic or ineptitude, it was a pathetic effort.

But still cause for raucous celebration apparently..

http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/artic...2885445691.html

Dunning - the Australian Norm Hewett?

	17-05-2003 20:42									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Hydey hey if you have time to post crap here, you have time to play civ

If you have time to post this in the Off-Topic forums you don't have the time to play Civ.





If you want to talk Rugby, you are welcome...

	18-05-2003 04:10									#111
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Far from it. Last weekend they only had to beat the lowly Chiefs and achieve a bonus point in the process to make the S12 semi-finals. They won, but couldn't manage the bonus point. Given that they had ample chances to pick up the bonus point, and blew them all either through panic or ineptitude, it was a pathetic effort.

When will we ever see them in a final - darn it!!! This means Dwyer is resigning, doesn't it?

quote: Dunning - the Australian Norm Hewett?

No way, I've never heard of him doing this before. Wow...

	18-05-2003 05:55									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia there was a very harsh call on Sam Tuitupou after he ripped the ball away from a tackled Brumbie. For some reason the ref penalized him, even though he was on his feet the whole time, and the Brumbies scored from the 5-metre lineout. Any idea what that was all about?

According to rugby law, the tackler has to release the tackled player before he can compete for the ball. The ref ruled that Tuitupou hadn't released the tackled player before he competed for the ball - in other words, his ripping away of the ball was part of an uninterrupted movement that began with the tackle. It was a correct ruling, but, as one of the commentators pointed out, you see the same thing go unpenalised a dozen times every match. I've seen the ref - Kaplan - let the same thing go unpenalised. Yet another case of ref inconsistency.

	18-05-2003 05:58									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia But still cause for raucous celebration apparently.. http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/artic...2885445691.html Dunning - the Australian Norm Hewett?

If Norm Hewett's an idiot - yes, Matt Dunning is the Australian Norm Hewett.

The worst thing Matt Dunning - a very fat prop - ever did was score an amazing 50m intercept try a couple of seasons ago. He became a bit of a cult figure as a result. It went to his head. His job, as a prop, is to scrummage. He hasn't worked on his scrummaging and seems to spend most of his time loitering out amongst the backs looking for yet another intercept. He's a classic example of what's wrong with New South Wales rugby.

	18-05-2003 06:03									#114
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quote: Originally posted by NeoStar When will we ever see them in a final - darn it!!! This means Dwyer is resigning, doesn't it?

Bob Dwyer was stepping aside into a Director of Coaching role anyway. The Waratahs will make the finals when someone finds a way to unlock the team's potential - which means, basically, dismantling a culture based on publicity, personality, ego, self-delusion, poisonous personal relations and in-fighting. No easy task.

quote: No way, I've never heard of him doing this before. Wow...

See above.

	18-05-2003 06:04									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin If you want to talk Rugby, you are welcome...

He doesn't, so he's not.

	18-05-2003 10:28									#116
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Brumbies

	18-05-2003 12:24									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Brumbies

They did better, under the sorry injury circumstances, than expected. Their second-half effort exposed Blues' weaknesses that would have had the Crusaders sniggering up their sleeves.

	18-05-2003 15:31									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Brumbies

yes

	19-05-2003 03:30									#119
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Leicester 28 -d- 'Quins 13

Havak breathes again. Temporarily anyway. Next stop Saracens.

	19-05-2003 13:27									#120
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quote: Which is a bit different to what's required when a team lacks one or other of the above.

And there were finally signs yesterday that he will make tough decisions. Promising at least.

quote: I prefer to think of it as rank hypocrisy.

Well yes that is another perfectly valid way of looking at it.

quote: Have you ever been able to understand the notion of the "swinging voter"? I haven't.

I know what you mean. They are the single best reason for PR to my mind – though I’m not a great fan of a system that might give the monster raving loony party several seats.

The ‘swinging voter’ is joe and joeline average – the idea being they will vote for the party that puts a few more pounds in their pockets every month. They therefore hold the entire UK political system to ransom as everything is geared around keeping them sweet.

Hence progressive taxation is dead here – because J and J are IMO too daft to understand that high indirect taxation hits them more than it does high earners – and also negates the lower direct taxes.

As I say this is simply my view if the system I have to live in – others can disagree.

quote: I hope the miserable little sodding toad catches a fatal dose of SARS.

Anyone would think you didn’t like him.

quote: A trifecta is three in a row.

Then my criticism of the media held some water. They DO ignore anything that would get in the way of bragging rights like this.

quote: Still, he deserves a shot at it.

Lets see if the Kiwi forwards can gain him the time and space he needs.

quote: But if your mail about his return being spouse-related was right, it's hard to believe he would go back. Unless some agreement has been reached.

Yes it surprised me. The rumour originated from one of Tamerlins countrymen on the tiger’s board.

quote: I normally like the way Peter Marshall referees, but he was a bit pedantic this time

This one I’m framing. Marshall was shocking in the S12 game I saw him helm last month – pedantic but on the wrong issues. It’s a nice bit of proof that Nh and SH have different perspectives.

quote: It was a correct ruling, but, as one of the commentators pointed out, you see the same thing go unpenalised a dozen times every match

And again the difference. The fact teams frequently get away with an infringement is not an argument for the ref ignoring it! More valid is your point about consistency – it should always be pinged or always let go – not mix and match. And Kaplan is as poor as Marshall.

quote: Their second-half effort exposed Blues' weaknesses that would have had the Crusaders sniggering up their sleeves.

I have a feeling that Caligastia and Ravagon will still be quite happy at a final line up of Kiwi v Kiwi?

quote: Havak breathes again. Temporarily anyway. Next stop Saracens.

A much improved performance if not a great one. He had the courage to ship the 13 back onto the wing and play the Bok centre on our books at 13. As a result both men had good games – Gelderbloom scored our opening try as well.

McMullen looks like he could come good but he’ll have to work hard – as well as Pez we have signed the England U-19 Stand off from the Exiles. According to people who have seen him he has the potential (and that’s all it is of course) to be a Wilko. Name of Ross Broadfoot if memory serves (as it frequently does not).

There may be yet another Flanker from our production line that you will see in England colours before too long. Will Skinner at 19 looks an able replacement for Neil Back. In fact both men scored tries after the young buck replaced the old hand late on. Skinner scored by slotting in at outside centre when Tuilagi made a break – it’s not like flankers in my day I can tell you.