11-05-2003 22:40									#1
	Turn 54 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

To be edited by the Consuls and Ministers.

Status:
- Researching map making at 100%
- Luxury Slider at 0%
- 49 gold cash, -1 gpt

Urgent questions & tasks:
FAM: Negotiations with CFC: waiting for the final ingame approval of Wheel for CB+20 gold deal
FAM: Negotiations with GCA: MM+HBR for Myst+Poly
decorators: We have a Palace improvement coming to us. What d'ya say, can we upgrade the cave?

Unit movement & actions:
N1 'MerZenary' to move S (2)
N2 'Mao' to skip turn, waiting for Settler II
W2 'BigFree' fortified, waiting for GCA to scream
W3 'Alva' to attack the barb camp E (6), unless wounded - otherwise, skip turn to heal
W4 'Theseus' to skip turn
W5 'BFW' to fortify
W6 'Hagbart' to skip turn
W7 'WhiteBandit' to skip turn
W8 'not_panag' fortified in Apolyton
Settler 'Settler II' to move SE-SE-S to Bananatopia

Economy:
Apolyton finished settler, start building a warrior
Mingapulco building NumMerc. Change to Barracks pending situation.
Banatopia building granary. Change to Barracks pending situation.
Incensity building warrior, suggest switch to archer

WF:
Apolyton: 2, 6
Mingapulco: 6, 99
Bananatopia: 9
Incensity: 2

Workers
Worker1 'Dan' to move NW (7)
Worker2 'Monkee' continues mine (2)
Worker3 'panag' to road
Worker4 to be named 'EVC', continues road (2)

Diplomacy:
CDG: NAP expired. Talking about renewal - draft in works.
CFC: Negotiating... waiting for final approval of The Wheel for CB+20g trade.
GCA: NAP in effect (fm Turn 29).

Comment, please, many "plans" (especially those marked with '??') are just suggestions or ideas, not decisions already made.
---

Discussion and basic reporting to follow. See the topped thread for comprehensive results.

----

	11-05-2003 22:46									#2
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Ah, Settler II, settling the road so that traffic can increase, both on the internet and in the game

It's just amusing to hear that name and think of the site

I'll have to do another story edition soon

	11-05-2003 23:00									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

For the next turn, I propose one change - let's switch the Incensity build from warrior to archer. Here is the reasoning: as shown here, an archer would make forceful removal of Morris-on-the-iron-hill significantly easier compared to using just warriors. Also, as noted later in that same thread, CDG might decide to sacrifice their regular warrior (10 shields) just to trigger our GA early (assuming we'd attack with a Merc), actually not wishing to go to war - they'd just let us kill him, scream a bit about how aggressive Apolytonians are and quietly celebrate forcing us to effectively waste our GA.

The GA would actually not be "wasted" only if a full scale war was our plan (be it "truly our" plan or one forced upon us). As I believe we have quite clearly agreed on not waging war this early in the game, I suggest we try to prevent an early GA.

At the same time, I admit building archers is a bit wasteful, unless really necessary... so, the change I propose basically means: let's have one city ready to spit out an archer soon (in 6 turns), if the situation calls for it. 6 turns should be just the right time to know whether we'd be going to need an archer or not, as - the iron city is going to be founded in 5 turns. If we open the next save then and Morris still happily sits inside our new cultural borders, we finish the archer in Incensity and go kill him, most probably losing the archer in the process, Hagbart being the man to finish hopefully badly wounded Morris off.

If CDG eventually withdraw Morris, we change the build in Incensity to barracks just before finishing the archer - I believe it was our plan anyway...

	12-05-2003 00:39									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I second that plan Vondrack.

	12-05-2003 02:11									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Sounds good.

	12-05-2003 03:45									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Back from my short haitus where I was dealing with the PTW DG problem.

	12-05-2003 15:56									#7
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Just so that everybody knows - I added a more or less complete log of the chat with CDG here.

	12-05-2003 18:39									#8
	Tired of ads?

From the log it sounds like a legitimate boundary could be of advantage. It may be that CDG is taking advantage of whatever they can where there is no agreement in order to keep us on our toes. I'd rather have the screen be our effective boundary than have their units wander whilly-nilly all over our countryside for want of an agreement.

Time to look into a possible boundary to establish with them? That is, of course, until the NAP expires. Could we tie it in with the existing NAP? If not we would not have the flexibility of action that we do when a NAP expires.

	12-05-2003 19:21									#9
	Increase Your PM Length

I'm back from my trip now, and can start doing some work as MoI again. I should be posting some new stuff tonight.

I've tried to catch up as best I could, but is there anything specific I should know?


Dominae

	12-05-2003 19:28									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dominae I'm back from my trip now, and can start doing some work as MoI again. I should be posting some new stuff tonight. I've tried to catch up as best I could, but is there anything specific I should know? Dominae

I believe the Production Plan: Short Term is the reading you will not want to miss.

Questions we need to have answered:

1) Workers' schedules (I am having a sick feeling that blankly mining/roading everything in sight is less than optimal now, considering the population of our cities)

2) Response to the situation with CDG (do we build an archer? when? do we wait and just keep an option of building him open? how long? if we build him, will it be in Apolyton or in Incensity?)

3) Do we finish a Merc in Mingapulco or do we switch to barracks? Pretty much the same about Incensity... which might also get involved in the archer build...

4) Apolyton cycle - we need to build something between our settlers. What?

That's what I am able to recall right now.

	12-05-2003 19:34									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Thanks vondrack. Most of the questions you asked are diplomatic, not economic, but I'll consider how to include them in my tests.

What's going on with CDG? It seems like we're expecting them to attack, but we're not doing anything about it diplomatically. Personally I do not like making decisions out of fear; if we're going to go to war, I want to know straight up, and I want to know how other civs feel about it. Just my two cents on that issue.

Another issue: I highly recommend we block off the chokepoint toward CFC. I still surprised that no one (espeically the MoW) is giving this much consideration. Strategically that spot will become more and more important as the game progresses.


Dominae

	12-05-2003 19:47									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Dom - good to have you back.

We built an Embassy with CDG and noticed they had an Immortal, and have an Iron all roaded north of their capital. The other cities are almost no doubt building warriors. They had 100% tax at the time and 0 gold, so they were definitely upgrading, or at least had ensured they had IW.

Their warrior Morris is stationed on our closest Iron deposit, and we have a settler being built ready to go there and found. They know we want them to leave (from the chat), and we will see if they do so. There is some flagwaving here and some want us to demand they leave if they don't do so soon of their own accord. There is another option or two presented in the MoW thread which I favour and I think vondrack is partial to as well (he came up with it!).

We are not going to war, merely wondering if CDG and GCA are allied against us, and preparing in case those Immortals start to come at us. Call us Condition: Yellow-Green - mildly concerned, enough to make sure we are covering our bases, without devoting considerable resources to war srategies. There should be a way to get out of our current worries with words and an agreement, and I hope to push us to exhaust this option first.

	12-05-2003 19:57									#13
	Tired of ads?

Well... economic, diplomatic... Before doing diplo, we should sort out what our economic options are - I have tried to draw kind of a partial schedule recently in the MoW Outlook thread. We need to know where to press CDG for action (Morris' removal) in order to have our operations and expansion running smoothly. E.g., I am assuming we will use just one worker to connect our iron... would it be reasonable to use two? (and time our diplo actions in a different way then?) Things like that...

quote: Originally posted by Dominae What's going on with CDG? It seems like we're expecting them to attack, but we're not doing anything about it diplomatically. Personally I do not like making decisions out of fear; if we're going to go to war, I want to know straight up, and I want to know how other civs feel about it. Just my two cents on that issue.

Read the last chat wit them, please (the last but one post in the correspondence thread). We ARE trying to do something diplomatically, but the thing is that very little can be done RIGHT NOW. Until we build the iron city, all we can do is talk about NAP (which is what we are doing). Maybe suggesting a system of two moving warrior screens, but that idea is very, very new idea - we came over it just about an hour ago with MWIA. Needs to be discussed here first.

quote: Another issue: I highly recommend we block off the chokepoint toward CFC. I still surprised that no one (espeically the MoW) is giving this much consideration. Strategically that spot will become more and more important as the game progresses.

We have our warrior stationed just next to that isthmus. For the time being, CDG is blocking that chokepoint for us just fine. Do you think we should commit more resources to that area?

	12-05-2003 20:26									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by vondrack I am assuming we will use just one worker to connect our iron... would it be reasonable to use two? (and time our diplo actions in a different way then?) Things like that...

We will not be connecting our Iron until we actually plan to use it (when we want to upgrade to Swordsmen). I suggest only using one Worker for this. We'll just have to look at the timing very carefully (since it takes 4 turns to connect up the Iron, if a Worker is within moveable distance of the Hill).

quote: Read the last chat wit them, please (the last but one post in the correspondence thread).

My bad, I will have to do some more catching up. If we just plant a city next to the Iron, that pretty much forces them to leave or declare war, right? We could protect our Settler with 2 Warriors just be extra sure while avoiding the chance of a too-early GA with a victorious NM. But why the Archer?

quote: We ARE trying to do something diplomatically, but the thing is that very little can be done RIGHT NOW.

We could tell them we've seen their capitol, and that we know they're building up Immortals, and demand to know what they plan to do with them.

quote: Do you think we should commit more resources to that area?

Yes. I would be happy with a Warrior on each Mountain East of the CDG Warrior.


Dominae

	12-05-2003 22:02									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Dominae said:

quote: We could tell them we've seen their capitol, and that we know they're building up Immortals, and demand to know what they plan to do with them.

In my experience, demanding to know what other cultures intend to do is neither a diplomatically winning move, nor one that is likely to produce the desired result.

There's a perspective we're not looking at here, folks. Dial this back about 20 turns and take it from CDG's perspective.

CDG Perspective-Display-Device ON

To their south is an empire that seems reasonably friendly, but is VERY close. Of all the bloody luck, they got a freebie city and it's jammed right against us. They're a serious threat in the Chivalric era, but only have size as their ally now.

To their north, oh gods of cursed luck, is none other than Apolyton, with the one unit that can stuff our Immortals into a can. Apolyton has already shown some aggression by pounding on us for a fine point of diplomacy early on. Now they've got a screen of warriors watching for the slightest northward movement- as if we have anywhere else to expand! What's more likely is that they're using those "Screen" warriors to see us preparing our next city, and they'll move their forces against it early on.

Even more proof: They've built an embassy to find out exactly what resources we have, and what our state of readiness is! Luckily, since people have been screaming about Apolyton's aggressive expansion and their nosing around at our borders (what was up with attacking that barbarian on our border? Yeah, you need to train a WARRIOR that far south against barbs, sure) and that warrior south of us wasn't placed there by accident. So we've started a crash-construction of Immortals both to defend us against GCA (sure, we're friendly now, but they're going to have a city right against our capital's border!) and Immortals are our only hope of stopping what we know will be eventual advancing legions of pillaging Numidians! Since Morris has already seen them making preparations to get iron, we know they plan to attack us. Maybe that delaying tactic with Morris will buy us some more desperately needed time to prepare for the surge of pillagers that is sure to be coming. Getting a large number of counterattacking Immortals ready could be our only hope! Sure, we're sacrificing research, but we're scientific- we can make it up, and we need defense NOW!

CDG Perspective Display Device OFF

That, my friends, is in my opinion a very realistic picture of what CDG could be thinking, and explanations for everything we see. CDG is NOT in a healthy position in the world, and they probably know it. This is one reason I support the "counter screen" idea that Vondrack supported- that way maybe Persia will relax a bit- and if we can get them CONFIDENT we want peace - and they'll have lots of warning if we change our minds - they might even decide to prevent India from threatening them during the Chivalric times.

Just some food for thought. Chew slowly and consider. It isn't at ALL hard for me to imagine they consider us the aggressor around here. I kinda wish that embassy decision had been thought over a bit more; in my games I consider building an embassy against me (or when I build it) one of the most obvious precursors to violent action, and soon.

In any case- let's not assume anything. Of COURSE they're building Immortals and fast- that's their best line of defense between the rock and the hard place they're in!

	12-05-2003 23:24									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Wow! In which hut did you find the "Competitor Display" tech..?

Indeed - you have some very good points (chewing them at the moment, but I like my cat food better).

Can we retreat the warrior screen one tile just to show them our good faith? (without really missing the early warning system - it'll just be one turn later).

On another point: with so many tiles improved, maybe we can let Apolyton grow one population point extra before building the next settler? This'll get us one more unit, some more commerce, and we have enough workable land right now.

	13-05-2003 01:21									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

IMHO, the best place for warrior screens anyway isn't the tile right up against the agreed upon border, but 2 or 3 tiles away from the agreed upon border. (3 tiles if that side can see 2 tiles into your side, 2 tiles otherwise)

	13-05-2003 01:40									#18
	Tired of ads?

Right on F-P!

That is very nearly exactly how I feel that CDG is behaving.

BFM, moving the screen back is a good idea. Maybe we can tell CDG that we'll not come closer than 3 tiles to their Cultural border's.

	13-05-2003 01:57									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Dominae We will not be connecting our Iron until we actually plan to use it (when we want to upgrade to Swordsmen). I suggest only using one Worker for this. We'll just have to look at the timing very carefully (since it takes 4 turns to connect up the Iron, if a Worker is within moveable distance of the Hill).

I agree.

quote: Originally posted by Dominae My bad, I will have to do some more catching up. If we just plant a city next to the Iron, that pretty much forces them to leave or declare war, right? We could protect our Settler with 2 Warriors just be extra sure while avoiding the chance of a too-early GA with a victorious NM. But why the Archer?

You are ever so ready to blame the FAM. Why is that? This is not the first instance in which you say that the MoI cannot properly do it's job because the FAM is not doing their's. The FAM could easily say that the MoI, by not providing exactly detailed plans for builds and alternate builds for every city for the next 30 turns makes the FAM's job more difficult because we don't know if we have to play "wimp" or "bully" with CDG or the other Civ's.

I'd like to see you back off the FAM a bit and just do your job as requested by the Consuls. If they tell you we need a plan for war that includes us having X number of units with so and so improvemnets here and there, then you should provide that instead of complaining that the FAM should be doing more. Diplomacy is fluid, we cannot with 100% accuracy tell you what the other guy is planning.

The FAM may help mold what our domestic policy towards the other teams is, but it is up to the other teams also to decide that.

The Archer is to kill Morris if they do not move. A much better choice that an NM which sets off our GA. It may not be a long war if we are forced to attack Morris; lets hold that GA until we are sure we have to have it.

quote: Originally posted by Dominae We could tell them we've seen their capitol, and that we know they're building up Immortals, and demand to know what they plan to do with them.

They know we know. It does nothing but provoke them and institute bad feeling towards us if we take that approach.

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Yes. I would be happy with a Warrior on each Mountain East of the CDG Warrior.

Ok, you'd be happy with it; But why is it neccessary? Could you please explain.

	13-05-2003 02:40									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by BigFree You are ever so ready to blame the FAM. Why is that? ... I'd like to see you back off the FAM a bit and just do your job as requested by the Consuls.

I'm not sure what I've done to deserve such animosity. As far as I know, everyone on this team is allowed to comment and discuss on the anything that happens in this game; just because I'm the MoI does not mean I've no right to express my opinion on diplomatic matters.

As MoI, my only concern is that if we do not focus on our economy at this stage in the game, we will not be prepared for the later stages of the game. I would like to set us up to have the economic tools necessary to be competitive later on. I believe this is a valid concern, which I've been appointed to address.

As Citizen, I am concerned as to how we're running our diplomacy. Just as anyone can criticize what goes on in the MoI (which I've always been open to, by the way), I am raising some critical questions as to our diplomatic strategy. I just admitted to vondrack that I had not been keeping up, and so I will shut my mouth until I get a clear picture of what's going on. But, barrring this, I think it makes sense to "blame" the FAM for any foreign policy that I do not agree with, and not the MoW or the MoI. I'm not saying "we're sucking right now, it's the FAM's fault", I'm saying "I disagree with such and such desicion made by the FAM". Anyone is permitted to do this.

quote: If they tell you we need a plan for war that includes us having X number of units with so and so improvemnets here and there, then you should provide that instead of complaining that the FAM should be doing more.

Yes, but I'll fight tooth and nail if I think the FAM's plan is bogus. And when the plan is finally approved by a majority of the players here, I'll gladly implement it as MoI (consider the early Numidian Mercs that Trip requested, at my displeasure).

quote: The Archer is to kill Morris if they do not move. A much better choice that an NM which sets off our GA. It may not be a long war if we are forced to attack Morris; lets hold that GA until we are sure we have to have it.

Ah, something we discuss! Above, I supported the plan that we plant a city next to the Iron, then ask/demand Morris to leave our borders (this was not originally my idea). We can protect the city with multiple Warriors, which should be sufficient since they'll be fortified on a Hill. If they still refuse to leave (thereby declaring war, because we need that Iron), then we can consider building that Archer. We're jumping the gun on this one; I expect CDG to remove their Warrior, since they're not ready to attack us with Immortals yet.

quote: They know we know. It does nothing but provoke them and institute bad feeling towards us if we take that approach.

If they're building up a force of Immortals for use against us, they do need to be provoked and any bad feelings are irrelevant (since they've already decided to attack us). If we open a free dialogue about this, we're basically calling their "bluff". This may well have the effect of making them reconsider, and could even bring us closer together ("Apolyton are tough cookies, maybe we should ally with them for now..."). And if they were never planning to attack us anyway, why would they be "hurt" that we want to protect our interests? Saying nothing accomplishes nothing.


Dominae


P.S: We're all teammates and friends here. Why be so aggressive in our private forum?

	13-05-2003 04:22									#21
	Got spare money?

* vondrack throws a white towel into the ring

OK, enough.

Time for another one of those posts I hate writing.

What the hell is happening today? Some spots on the Sun or what? Do we have nothing better to do than quarrel among ourselves? He?

Dominae, you know I respect you a lot, but this time, you started posting too early. Be so kind and read through what happened while you were away. You will find many, if not all of your concerns addressed there. Major part of the fuss about your recent post(s) is likely caused by the fact that you are not caught up properly.

I understand why BigFree sounds a bit upset - you said we're not doing anything about the possible CDG attack on the diplo front and later suggested something that has been the topic of discussion for the whole of today ("tell them we know"), as if that was an easy, quick fix to the problem. You do have the right to comment and criticise, but you shall be prepared to hear back if your comments and/or criticism and/or "blame" are less than justified.

I don't think there is more that the FAM guys can do at this moment - we're talking about a new NAP with CDG, we're talking about tech deals, and we are heavily discussing - among ourselves - what our situation actually or likely is and what our diplomatic approach to it should be (double-screen plan, a border arrangement, "we know what you are up to" etc.). The FAM did a good job chatting with GCA about the CDG threat, trying to pull them closer to us and farther from CDG, arranging a fine tech deal with CFC, chatting with CDG recently... It seems things may be slowly improving between us and CDG. They are most probably trying to use Morris as a bargaining chip, trying to negotiate some sort of a border treaty in exchange for his removal. Which we do not really like, as - our "pride" aside - we do want to keep our early warning warrior screen in place - and a "border" would likely mean we would have to withdraw it. Whether they really mean harm or are just scared of us is difficult to say (F-P posted very good points re: how CDG may perceive things) - we need few turn time to be able to tell with more accuracy. I would not say we believe they are likely to attack (at least "actively"... we are more concerned about them "standing in our way" passively, maybe provoking us into a skirmish, "tarnishing" our reputation a little bit), but we try considering all the possible scenarios - and we try to prepare for as many as possible. We are making no decisions out of fear.

As for the "archer issue" - one possible schedule I posted in the MoW Outlook thread shows that if CDG refuses to leave when we found our iron city, we will need SOMETHING to kill Morris - to get to that iron and to show we mean business. 30-shield Mercs are costly and not well suited for attacking fortified warriors on hills (see this post). When Mercs win (which is far from guaranteed), they trigger our GA, which we probably want to avoid, as there is the possibility of CDG just sacrificing a warrior to trigger our GA with no actual desire for a full-scale war. Despotic GA with 5 cities for Apolyton... hmmm... they'd gain few points in the most popular civ contest. But if they DO refuse to move, we shall be able to respond quickly - that's why I ask for a possible 20-shield archer build being available and timed for the right moment.

Re: connecting the iron. WHEN do we plan to upgrade our warriors? WHEN shall we need the connection? This is the first time I hear we might not be connecting it as fast as possible - I have always assumed we'd do it as fast as one worker can. If not, fine, give me a schedule. We may very well find out then the archer issue is not that hot (and the build could really be started only after Morris stays sitting on that iron despite being inside our cultural borders). And our FAM would have more time to talk with CDG about Morris longing for his own bed back in Elucidium. I'm quite sure MoW will ask for swordsmen upgrades ASAP - tell him what our possibilities are.

There is nothing so urgent that we would need to get answers and new plans from you RIGHT NOW, Dom. Take your time, read through the new posts and threads and come with a plan or analysis only then, please. If you start by asking questions - fine with me. I understand you also need some input to be able to put plans together.

But jumping in, commenting and criticising with much less than complete knowledge about the current situation is likely to stir things up unnecessarily.

Let's heat off, everybody. Both here and in other threads.

PLEASE.

	13-05-2003 06:40									#22
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by vondrack But jumping in, commenting and criticising with much less than complete knowledge about the current situation is likely to stir things up unnecessarily. Let's heat off, everybody. Both here and in other threads.

Agreed, and agreed.




Dominae

	13-05-2003 07:32									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Not much to report status wise, except...

we have CB and 20 more gold, and

the CDG worker Cedric moved into the jungle and is 6 of WB, and

alva is unscathed and adacent to a barb camp with a lone warrior garrison.

	13-05-2003 09:19									#24
	Remove this text

--Actions:

W3 'Alva' attacks the Patzinal camp 6 (E). Wins, plus 25 gold, no damage, no promotion.
Settler 'Settler II' moves to Bananatopia
N1 'MerZenary' moves 2 (S)
N2 'Mao' skips turn, waiting for Settler II
W2 'BigFree' fortified.
W4 'Theseus' skips turn
W5 'BFW' fortifies
W6 'Hagbart' skips turn
W7 'WhiteBandit' skips turn
W8 'not_panag' fortified in Apolyton

Economy:
Apolyton finished settler, start building a warrior
Mingapulco building NumMerc.
Banatopia building granary.
Incensity building warrior, switched to archer

Economy:
Apolyton finished settler, start building a warrior
Mingapulco building NumMerc.
Banatopia building granary.
Incensity building warrior, switched to archer

WF:
Apolyton: 2, 6 6. Errrm, make that 3 3
Mingapulco: 6, 9 9
Bananatopia: 9
Incensity: 2

Workers
Worker1 'Dan' move 7 (NW)
Worker2 'Monkee' continues mine (2)
Worker3 'panag' begins road
Worker4 to be named 'EVC', continues road (2)

Last edited by notyoueither on 13-05-2003 at 12:08

	13-05-2003 12:06									#26
	Support Apolyton

That's the end of BigFree, isn't it? Nowhere to run to...

Which exchange did we do? The Wheel for CB + 20 ? With which Civ?

edit: from CFC, I suppose. Can you tell me whether CDG has CB?

	13-05-2003 16:27									#27
	Suffering from ads?

* Fried-Psitalon Demon-Fried goes insane, banging his head on the bars of his cage and screaming wildly! Demon-Fried tears at the bars and gnashes his teeth, screaming bloody murder!




EXPOSED WORKER! EXPOSED WORKER BUILDING ROAD NORTH TO STRATEGIC MILITARY ENCAMPMENT SITE!



BASH! BASH BASH BASH BASH!


* Fried-Psitalon Normal Fried sneaks up behind Demon-Fried and whacks him over the head with a large club.

Right. Sorry. What my associate was trying to say, your honor, was that we are now somewhat concerned that the same strategic launching point earlier discussed may now be the next city site for Elucidia, as also suggested by my client. The city site is also, given the terrain near Elucidia, a reasonably good prospect for them to improve and use in the long term, noting rivers, land area gained in relation to the capital, et al.

My client feels that appropriate and enthusiastic measures could be taken to convince that worker to reconsider his nationalistic loyalties, both to slow that expansion route and potentially to disrupt the movement of the Settler which has just been finished in Elucidia's capital. (Hasn't it? Elucidia is size 2 now?)

While such actions would certainly be brash, again, provoking CDG to a war that they are not prepared for (we could use our gold to check a city or two before taking this action, but I suspect what we saw was a brief move in order to get an upgrade done, now) would benefit us, as we are decidedly the stronger power.

And, well, your honor, the internet MP side of my client just has a thing for slave workers.

* Fried-Psitalon Demon-Fried wakes up, clobbers Normal-Fried, and goes back on his screaming tirade.

BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH BASH.........................



It's probably a questionable idea, but I think checking the other two cities might be worthwhile, and if we see peacetime things going on, maybe WE should take a little action to encourage relations in a clear manner. "Want your worker back? Send Morris home, NOW."

	13-05-2003 18:06									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

F-P, both of you...

I understand that your MP mind must be tortured now. Such a weak, vulnerable worker! So likely to change sides, if "helped"!

But it has been some time since we collectively decided (at least I believe it was not just me getting that impression) that warring CDG at this moment is not in our best interest - not only because of having less than overwhelming military superiority, but also because by taking out or seriously damaging CDG would help GCA more than us.

That's why we are going to behave like good guys and leave that poor Elucidian worker sweat in the jungle.

	13-05-2003 19:03									#29
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster That's the end of BigFree, isn't it? Nowhere to run to...

It's not that bad - we are negotiating a safe route for him with CDG. GCA seems to be just fine with Bigfree sitting there, staring into waves...

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Which exchange did we do? The Wheel for CB + 20 ? With which Civ? edit: from CFC, I suppose.

Right, CFC it was.

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Can you tell me whether CDG has CB?

Interesting... CDG does NOT have Ceremonial Burial. What about throwing it into the proposed NAP treaty basket? It is a very cheap tech... just a small sweetener (were there any NDA clauses involved in the deal with CFC?).

This also tells me that relations between CDG and GCA may be less that THAT warm... Ceremonial Burial was the starting tech for GCA - it is difficult to believe that there would have been no way to work out a trade, if there was a will...

Just thinking aloud...

	13-05-2003 19:11									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

GIVE a tech!?

How about we GIVE them that tech in exchange for them GIVING Morris a ticket to Elucidia?

* Fried-Psitalon wanders off, muttering about the sacrilege of GIVING a technology....

Edit/PS: Can we at least park a warrior on that gold hill to deny them QUITE so nifty a city site, for now?