05-05-2003 01:28									#61
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Got back from a geology trip I had. Talked to History Buff from GCA briefly.

All time are Pacific

quote: History Buff (01:34 PM) : hey, drop me a lone when you come online History Buff (01:34 PM) : sorry, that should say "line" History Buff (11:14 AM) : we need you guys to move that worrior you have south of CDG. WhiteBandit (12:21 PM) : hey there History Buff (12:21 PM) : hey WhiteBandit (12:22 PM) : i had a geology field camp the last few days so i've been away History Buff (12:22 PM) : ah WhiteBandit (12:22 PM) : one thing to note though, i guess our deal didn't go through because the way Civ works, you take care of diplomacy at the beginning of the turn before anything else can happen, so we couldn't offer you Wheel and warrior code yet since it "wasn't completed" History Buff (12:23 PM) : well, like I said, we're gonna need you to move the warriror. WhiteBandit (12:23 PM) : so we re-offered it, so all you have to do is re-offer writing and accept the deal and things should be fine WhiteBandit (12:23 PM) : ok, any suggestions on where we should move it? History Buff (12:23 PM) : just not there is what Lucky told me to say. History Buff (12:23 PM) : ask CDG if you can mofve it through thier territoy I guess WhiteBandit (12:25 PM) : ok, i'll let the other people in the foreign affairs ministry know WhiteBandit (12:29 PM) : whoa, looks like i suck... the trades already went through, hehe History Buff (12:29 PM) : lol WhiteBandit (12:29 PM) : i'm just now reading up on everything, so bare with me

	05-05-2003 11:49									#62
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

After finding out the news regarding CDG, we wish to "plant a seed" so to speak and hopefully instill some worry into GCA (if they are in bed with CDG, well then we have nothing to lose anyway).

Sent to History Buff and Lucky

quote: It is imperative that we contact each other at the soonest possible moment, as we have important news regarding CDG, I am sending this to Lucky as well, perhaps our two teams can schedule a chat.

	05-05-2003 22:41									#63
	Does this look infected? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Talking with Lucky of GCA...

All times are Pacific.

quote: Lucky (07:09 AM) : ok, contact me as soon as you are online again WhiteBandit (10:17 AM) : hello! (looks like you are away though ) Lucky (10:17 AM) : nope, not really WhiteBandit (10:17 AM) : oh! WhiteBandit (10:18 AM) : would it be possible for us to chat on IRC? I have a few team members who'd like to participate Lucky (10:19 AM) : maybe in an hour or so Lucky (10:19 AM) : or should it be before our turn? WhiteBandit (10:20 AM) : that will be fine. you guys can play your turn, i don't think that will matter too much at the moment... my only question would be have you founded an embassy in CDG or considered it? Lucky (10:23 AM) : with having writing we have of course considered founding embassies WhiteBandit (10:23 AM) : hehe, true! WhiteBandit (10:27 AM) : i'll go ahead and tell you now, hehe, we can talk it over later if you want WhiteBandit (10:27 AM) : basically, on our turn, we decided to establish an embassy in CDG's capital WhiteBandit (10:28 AM) : we got the nice juicey photo and realized they have a pretty decent city there WhiteBandit (10:28 AM) : one thing to note is that they have iron connected, which gives them immediate access to their unique unit. this in itself isn't so much of a problem WhiteBandit (10:28 AM) : the thing is, they are at 0% science... hoarding money Lucky (10:29 AM) : i see WhiteBandit (10:29 AM) : about the only reason one would do this is to build warriors and then upgrade them... since warriors are cheap and fast to build Lucky (10:29 AM) : yep WhiteBandit (10:30 AM) : we don't have anything to say about this other than a word of warning. the target could be us, or it could be you. the fact that our unique unit is the ancient age's best defender gives us breathing room WhiteBandit (10:43 AM) : would you still like to hold a team chat later to discuss this? Lucky (10:44 AM) : yes, in an hour or so WhiteBandit (10:44 AM) : ok, send me a message whenever you're ready

	06-05-2003 03:05									#64
	GCA Chat Part I Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Ok, this one is a biggie but it was worth it. I think we made a good impression on GCA. Times are CST.

quote: Session Start: Mon May 05 14:36:29 2003 Session Ident: #isdg [14:36] * Now talking in #isdg [14:36] [MasterZen] chat is with GCA? [14:37] [WhiteBandit] yup [14:37] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o MasterZen [14:37] [MasterZen] all of them? [14:38] [WhiteBandit] not sure, just Lucky is all I know of at the moment [14:49] * Togas has joined #isdg [14:49] [Togas] yay, it's us! [14:50] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o Togas [14:51] [MasterZen] FAM 4EVER [14:51] * Lucky has joined #isdg [14:52] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o Lucky [14:52] [WhiteBandit] howdy [14:52] [MasterZen] greetings [14:52] [Lucky] hmm, now I just have to remember my password :S [14:53] [WhiteBandit] hehe for dalnet? [14:53] [Lucky] yes [14:53] * Lucky is now known as Guest13887 [14:54] * BigFurryMonster has joined #isdg [14:54] [BigFurryMonster] Hello all [14:54] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o BigFurryMonster [14:54] [WhiteBandit] hey there BFM [14:54] * Guest13887 is now known as USC_Lucky [14:54] [USC_Lucky] damn [14:54] [WhiteBandit] [14:54] [USC_Lucky] too long ago [14:55] * USC_Lucky has quit IRC (Client closed connection) [14:55] [WhiteBandit] DOH [14:55] * USC_Lucky has joined #isdg [14:55] [WhiteBandit] hopefully he'll be right back [14:55] [WhiteBandit] there we go [14:55] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o USC_Lucky [14:55] [USC_Lucky] wrong button [14:56] [USC_Lucky] I don´t think someone else will come right now [14:56] [USC_Lucky] so [14:56] [WhiteBandit] well, to begin with, the point of this is really just to share the information we obtained with your side and give you guys a heads up [14:57] [USC_Lucky] i see [14:57] [USC_Lucky] so basically you want to warn us about mobilization by Elucidia [14:57] [USC_Lucky] right? [14:58] [WhiteBandit] exactly, we don't know what plans they have for their neighbors or which neighbor they might be interested in though [14:58] [WhiteBandit] but having 0% research is highly suspicious [14:58] [USC_Lucky] well, you don´t know for how long they have/had that [14:58] [MasterZen] probably since they got IW [14:59] [WhiteBandit] if they've had it longer, than it is even more suspicious [14:59] [WhiteBandit] either way, it is not a good sign. [14:59] [MasterZen] look at it this way, if they were up to something, the most logical timeframe would be when their Immortals have comparative advantage over other civs. That time begins the moment they get iron and connect it. They don't really need any other techs in the near future [15:00] * CornMaster has joined #isdg [15:00] [WhiteBandit] hey there CornMaster [15:00] [CornMaster] There we go [15:00] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o CornMaster [15:00] [MasterZen] hello [15:00] [USC_Lucky] ah, so I´m not completely alone [15:01] [WhiteBandit] MZ - exactly, that makes them a huge potential threat [15:01] [MasterZen] anyway, if I was Persia, I'd take advantage of my immortals, and would use them as early as possible [15:01] [WhiteBandit] i mean look at their list of potential enemies and motivations [15:02] [WhiteBandit] there is us, but we have numedian mercs and are far away [15:02] [WhiteBandit] then there is you guys, who are right next door, have decent land and only spearmen as defense [15:02] [MasterZen] and there is you, with a lot of land and only spearmen [15:02] [MasterZen] crosspost [15:02] [WhiteBandit] hehe [15:03] [USC_Lucky] maybe they just fear your numidians [15:03] [USC_Lucky] and want to have something ready to counter this threat [15:03] [WhiteBandit] any potential military action is probably quite a ways off though as they have to build up [15:03] [WhiteBandit] possibly, but do you yourselves not feel threatened? [15:04] [MasterZen] Numidians are defensive, there is no reason for us to go on the offensive [15:04] [USC_Lucky] oh we do, but we need your lonely warrior to move away so that we can finalize our defenses [15:05] [MasterZen] he can't go away until CDG lets him through [15:05] [WhiteBandit] we're waiting for communication from CDG still [15:05] [USC_Lucky] well, we need him to move away from that tile immediatly [15:05] [MasterZen] and CDG has been all but quick in their response to our correspondence [15:06] [USC_Lucky] we could consider allowing him to camp in the desert for the time being [15:07] [MasterZen] our warrior means no harm he's an explorer...and desperately wants to go home and tell his familiy about all the fabulous place's he's been [15:07] [WhiteBandit] hehe exactly [15:07] [WhiteBandit] I've informed Trip, so he knows [15:07] [CornMaster] Couldn't he sneak through our border and get back? Or is our border on a coast? [15:07] [USC_Lucky] of course, but right now we need him to occupy another tile [15:07] [USC_Lucky] coast [15:07] [WhiteBandit] well if you plant a city there, we'll still be in your city radius, so it wouldn't matter either way would it? [15:08] [USC_Lucky] yes, we could live with that, but that tile needs to be cleared [15:08] [MasterZen] no problem with us.. [15:08] * vondrack has joined #isdg [15:08] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o vondrack [15:08] * MasterZen sets mode: +o vondrack [15:08] [vondrack] hello [15:08] [WhiteBandit] ahoy [15:09] [vondrack] ignore me, please, I will mostly just listen [15:09] [vondrack] I seldom have anything smart to say anyway... [15:09] [USC_Lucky] hi, just the man that needs to know that the warrior must move away from that tile [15:10] * BigFree has joined #isdg [15:10] [WhiteBandit] well regardless of the warrior issue, i think the most pressing thing at the moment is CDG's buildup [15:10] [USC_Lucky] oh and please not onto another hill tile [15:10] [WhiteBandit] Even if they were threatened by us, it's no need to go to 0% science [15:10] [USC_Lucky] yes [15:10] [USC_Lucky] but what do you suggest to counter this threat [15:11] [WhiteBandit] At the moment we have no proposal [15:11] [CornMaster] Tactical Nuclear Strike. [15:11] [MasterZen] first of all we would like to know if you consider them a threat at all [15:11] [USC_Lucky] we consider any military buildup alarming [15:11] [USC_Lucky] the close it is to our territory, the more alarming [15:11] [WhiteBandit] As do we [15:11] [USC_Lucky] *closer [15:11] [WhiteBandit] Exactly [15:12] [WhiteBandit] Which is why we wanted to give you guys a heads up [15:12] [MasterZen] and we of course have no interest in CDG taking over a big chunk of land by force, be it you, or be it us [15:12] [WhiteBandit] I myself feel that 0% science rate is evidence that military action is imminent [15:12] [USC_Lucky] of course [15:13] [USC_Lucky] thank you for the information [15:13] [WhiteBandit] what do you think of the issue though? [15:13] [WhiteBandit] i mean what we be most logical for CDG in your opinion? [15:13] [WhiteBandit] to march through the jungle and attack us, or attack their close southern neigbor? [15:13] [USC_Lucky] we´ll try to be ready for anything that might happen [15:14] [USC_Lucky] most logical is difficult to say, we have no idea which neighbor they consider the bigger threat [15:15] [WhiteBandit] Understandable. But in your eyes, what makes sense? [15:15] [MasterZen] put yourself in their shoes, think like them, and ask yourself, if I were Persia, and I had immortals, what would I do with them? [15:15] [USC_Lucky] attack of course [15:15] [USC_Lucky] that is pretty clear [15:15] [MasterZen] [15:15] [WhiteBandit] Go south after "easy targets" or march across a jungle and attack the best defender at this early in the game [15:16] [USC_Lucky] otoh, they also have CFC as a possible target [15:16] [MasterZen] Immortals vs Mercs are not good odds [15:16] [WhiteBandit] I doubt it [15:16] [USC_Lucky] and who´s to say that we are "easy" targets [15:17] [WhiteBandit] Not to insult you, but Immortals vs Spearmen are horrible odds [15:17] [MasterZen] well, they don't know the military capability of each of us, they would have to judge us by our defensive capability [15:17] [MasterZen] even with walls... [15:18] [USC_Lucky] agreed [15:18] [USC_Lucky] but without any idea or plan to counter this development, the whole discussion is purely hypothetical [15:19] [MasterZen] not necessarily [15:19] [MasterZen] first we must be aware of the threat [15:19] [WhiteBandit] well if something befalls you guys, we could potentially offer assistance. [15:19] [MasterZen] then we must think of a way to dissipiate it before it materializes [15:19] [USC_Lucky] and we agree that this is a threat [15:20] [USC_Lucky] we are always interested in potential assistance [15:20] [WhiteBandit] The threat/warning is that they are either going to backstab you guys (which in itself is unfortunate), or make the unfortunate and suicidal mistake of attacking us [15:20] [MasterZen] we're not saying we should suddenly turn into paranoia mode, just that we should think about these things, and realize that it is not in either of our interests for a CDG superpower [15:20] [USC_Lucky] of course not [15:21] [WhiteBandit] Other than that, we really have no proposals to offer you at the moment. [15:21] [MasterZen] and that what we are getting at is that we have no problem with laying low about this at least publically, but keeping this possibility open [15:22] [WhiteBandit] Yup, we're willing to work with you guys [15:22] [USC_Lucky] thank you, we always welcome such possibilities [15:22] [WhiteBandit] How would you feel about a proposal vice versa? If something befalls us, you could give us assistance as well? [15:23] [MasterZen] if anything a low-level intel exchange would be nice, something like what we have done, i.e. share potential moves on CDG's behalf that might indicate an attack [15:23] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o BigFree [15:24] [WhiteBandit] basically somewhat of a mutual protection pact in regards to CDG. nothing official at the moment of course, we'll have to hammer this stuff out at a later time [15:25] [MasterZen] of course, we can work up to that, info sharing at first, and slowly strengthening our mutual ties [15:25] [USC_Lucky] hmm [15:25] [USC_Lucky] a mutual protection pact, especially this early, is always a dangerous "adventure" [15:26] [WhiteBandit] it is more dangerous to be alone in the world. [15:26] [WhiteBandit] we can work out the specifics at a later time of course [15:26] [WhiteBandit] provided you are interested to begin with? [15:26] [WhiteBandit] or rather, not even an MPP [15:27] [WhiteBandit] i agree, it would be binding and dangerous perhaps [15:27] [WhiteBandit] more like a mutual cooperation type of thing [15:27] [MasterZen] look at it this way: [15:27] [WhiteBandit] we share info and possibly provide assistance? [15:27] [MasterZen] we simply agree for the moment to be on guard for anything suspiscious [15:27] [USC_Lucky] we would surely like to see the informal ties beyond our NAP getting stronger and stronger [15:28] [WhiteBandit] definitely [15:29] [MasterZen] all we want is for you to feel that we can count on each other [15:29] [USC_Lucky] unfortunately we have no precise information to share at the moment, at least nothing you don´t already know [15:29] [MasterZen] oh don't worry about that, when you get any you tell us, so will we [15:29] [WhiteBandit] exactly [15:29] [WhiteBandit] if anything, this will further strengthen our friendship [15:30] [USC_Lucky] we welcome the friendship of the Apolytonian people and gratefully accept any further cooperation [15:30] [MasterZen] great [15:30] [MasterZen] we also value your friendship tremendously [15:30] [WhiteBandit] yes, we'll continue to pass on any info we find [15:31] [USC_Lucky] thank you, we will do the same [15:31] [MasterZen] and let's hope this is all paranoia... frankly we hope we're wrong and CDG isn't planning a war, but we must be prepared in case of anything [15:32] [USC_Lucky] yes, being prepared for everything is the best you can do [15:32] [MasterZen] a pint of paranoia is worth more than a gallon of blood [15:32] [USC_Lucky] lol [15:32] * Togas has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [15:33] * Togas has joined #isdg [15:33] * WhiteBandit sets mode: +o Togas [15:33] [USC_Lucky] then we of course have another neighbor we could discuss about [15:34] [WhiteBandit] yes [15:34] [USC_Lucky] may I ask how your diplomatic relationship with CFC and your impressions about their behaviour is? [15:34] [WhiteBandit] what do you want to discuss regarding CFC I take it? [15:35] [WhiteBandit] We don't really have too much of a relationship with them yet as we just started talking [15:35] [USC_Lucky] with the former government of Fanatikou we had made very unpleasant experiences [15:35] [WhiteBandit] although we are waiting for the discovery of photography so we can get pictures of chieftess. [15:36] [USC_Lucky] [15:36] [WhiteBandit] [15:36] [WhiteBandit] (actually, i hear she is a computer programmer, so that kind of throws it all out the window) [15:36] [MasterZen] unpleasant experiences? [15:36] [WhiteBandit] but we haven't delt too much with them, we are trying to work out some trade agreements with them as well [15:36] [USC_Lucky] but I take it you already traded with them, did you not? [15:37] [USC_Lucky] traded them Alphabet [15:37] [WhiteBandit] nope [15:37] [WhiteBandit] they got alphabet from some other source [15:37] [USC_Lucky] ah, i see [15:37] [WhiteBandit] is there anything we should watch out for regarding them? [15:38] [USC_Lucky] well, the first meeting with the Chinese people showed them as aggressive, arrogant people, making high demands but in the end not even accepting the most simple agreements [15:39] [MasterZen] haha [15:39] [USC_Lucky] of course rumors have it that their new president handles matters more diplomatically and friendlier [15:39] [MasterZen] so you have no agreements with them? [15:39] [USC_Lucky] none worth mentioning [15:40] [WhiteBandit] what were your past experiences? [15:40] [WhiteBandit] is it something we should be aware of just in case they try it on us? [15:41] [USC_Lucky] they surely have shown no interest in fair tech trades with us [15:41] [WhiteBandit] well, that only hurts them then [15:41] [WhiteBandit] we'll be sure to watch out for that [15:41] [USC_Lucky] indeed [15:42] [WhiteBandit] as you are aware, we are totally about trying to make fair deals [15:42] [MasterZen] Two teams coordinating reasearch is a powerful force, if they think they are getting all the techs themselves they are wrong, unless they have other agreements we are unaware of [15:43] [MasterZen] If we wanted to we could outresearch them easily [15:43] [MasterZen] We=as in Poly/GCA [15:43] [USC_Lucky] speaking of research, what are your intentions for our already agreed on next tech trade [15:43] [USC_Lucky] as you know we are going for Polytheism [15:44] [WhiteBandit] we've started on map making [15:45] [WhiteBandit] we still have our 1 point favor thing to work out too [15:45] [WhiteBandit] [15:45] [WhiteBandit] it's kind of hard, hopefully we can figure this out, perhaps we'll have to do some multi tech exchange to figure this out [15:45] * WhiteBandit looks at the tech chart right now [15:46] [USC_Lucky] it will most likely be several techs [15:46] [WhiteBandit] could we do a tech swap of MM for Polytheism? (Though the 1 tech deficit to you guys will still stand, don't worry) [15:46] [USC_Lucky] well, we could trade CB+Myst+HR (11) for MM (12) [15:47] [USC_Lucky] but a 3:1 tech trade is kind of awkward, too [15:48] [WhiteBandit] we could trade HBR for Myst? [15:48] [USC_Lucky] do you have/plan to research HR? [15:48] [WhiteBandit] we'll evidentially have to if we want to do it that way [15:48] [USC_Lucky] we definitely do, probably before you finish MM [15:49] [WhiteBandit] hmm [15:50] [WhiteBandit] Lucky - I need to head off to school, MZ will be taking over the chat for now [15:50] [WhiteBandit] sorry to take off [15:50] [MasterZen] no problem [15:50] [USC_Lucky] np, have fun [15:50] [WhiteBandit] it was a pleasure speaking with you guys again though [15:50] * WhiteBandit is now known as SchoolBandit [15:50] [SchoolBandit] until next time!

too long... continued next post:

	06-05-2003 03:06									#65
	GCA Chat Part II Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

part II...

quote: [15:51] [MasterZen] we are considering buying CB from you as a start [15:51] [USC_Lucky] buying sound interesting [15:51] [MasterZen] and then trading HBR+MM for Poly+Myst [15:52] [USC_Lucky] that sounds interesting too [15:52] [SchoolBandit] then you can straight research to monarchy and not worry about HBR [15:52] [SchoolBandit] oh wait [15:52] [SchoolBandit] i'm gone [15:52] * SchoolBandit forgot [15:52] [MasterZen] I think the trade is a no-brainer, we just have to agree on a price for CB. [15:52] [USC_Lucky] yet, we would like to have HBR rather soon [15:52] [MasterZen] We were thinking of 20g [15:53] [MasterZen] for CB [15:54] [USC_Lucky] I do think CB is worth a little more, but I will forward this proposal to my scientific advisor and my trade advisor [15:56] [MasterZen] ok, no problem [15:57] [MasterZen] it would be great to get this deal done though, it would put us a step ahead of the competition, and considering CDG is not reasearching, will be to our advantage [15:57] [MasterZen] CFC alone will not be able to compete with 2 teams coordinating research [15:58] [USC_Lucky] indeed [15:59] [USC_Lucky] we would like to extend our informal cooperation to any information regarding CFC as well [15:59] [USC_Lucky] for many of our people, that seems to be of more interest even [16:00] [MasterZen] really? that bad was the experience? [16:00] [USC_Lucky] yes [16:00] [MasterZen] the truth is that we just got contact and it is a bit early to judge their attitude towards us, or at least to judge it fairly. But we'll keep you in the loop [16:01] [USC_Lucky] even CFC team members agreed that the officials treated us like you treat an AI [16:01] [MasterZen] damn, that bad [16:02] [MasterZen] IMO, you treat others like they treat you, you get BS from them, you give them some BS too, especially if they really aren't a threat or are they? [16:02] [USC_Lucky] so far we don´t see much threatening [16:03] [USC_Lucky] but their low number of techs and big capital as well as mil. adv. comments suggest that they are on a military build up, too [16:04] [MasterZen] why are people so aggressive.. [16:05] [MasterZen] look, the truth is that from our explorations we believe CFC to be pretty far away [16:06] [USC_Lucky] far away from you maybe [16:06] [MasterZen] geography eventually dictates the gravity of the threat [16:07] [MasterZen] are you afraid CFC and CDG might gang up on you? It would be interesting to know the extent of CDG and CFC's relationship... [16:08] [MasterZen] look, we're going to share a little bit of extra info which I think you'll appreciate and hopefully will give you a better understanding of the CFC and CDG situation [16:08] [MasterZen] again, these are just bits and pieces, its up to us to pick them up and build and idea from them [16:09] [USC_Lucky] well, we know CDG is trying not to let CFC into your part of the continent [16:09] [USC_Lucky] but we do not really know what their relationship is like [16:09] [MasterZen] From our explorations, we found a landbridge in the north, our contact with CFC was ACROSS the landbridge [16:09] [MasterZen] the reason was that there is a CDG unit blocking that landbridge [16:09] [USC_Lucky] ah [16:10] [MasterZen] it was really a lucky strike, our unit was on the coast and it caught a CFC unit passing by on the opposite side [16:10] [MasterZen] now, if I were CFC I would not be too happy about CDG blocking that landbridge... [16:11] [USC_Lucky] indeed, that´s why we do not think they have any close relationship [16:12] [MasterZen] but do you think either of them will go after each other? [16:12] [USC_Lucky] hmm, no idea, but probably not [16:13] [MasterZen] We don't think so either [16:13] [MasterZen] do you have a considerable border with them? CFC i mean? [16:14] [USC_Lucky] considerable? no [16:14] [MasterZen] another landbridge? lol [16:17] [MasterZen] perhaps they are an island connected by just landbridges.. in this case, I don't see them as much a threat to us [16:18] [USC_Lucky] of course, they´d have to come through at least 1 more like 2 other countries to reach you [16:20] [USC_Lucky] so you see our dilemma [16:20] [USC_Lucky] we have an aggressive neighbor to one side [16:20] [MasterZen] yes, I do understand you guys, which makes the whole CDG business so much more imporant [16:20] [USC_Lucky] and a friendly, openly trading one to the other [16:20] [USC_Lucky] but which you tell us now might be betraying us [16:22] [MasterZen] Its a possiblity one must always consider [16:22] [USC_Lucky] indeed [16:22] [MasterZen] And it is because of this that we feel our relationship must get stronger and stronger [16:22] [USC_Lucky] but concentrating on one possibility is probably the most we can handle this early in the game [16:23] [MasterZen] Don't worry, we understand [16:23] [MasterZen] It's not like we're scheming to take over the continent, its just a chat to reassure ourselves that any danger is to be considered by both of us [16:24] [USC_Lucky] [16:24] [MasterZen] BTW, have you guys built an embassy with CDG? [16:24] [USC_Lucky] no we haven´t [16:24] [MasterZen] then perhaps it might be a good idea to make one, say some 10 turns in the future [16:25] * Panzer32 has joined #isdg [16:25] * MasterZen sets mode: +o Panzer32 [16:25] [USC_Lucky] perhaps [16:26] [MasterZen] a lot can happen in 10 turns... the info would be very usefull to see if their intentions have changed [16:26] [USC_Lucky] we will definitely talk with them and see if their behaviour has changed [16:27] [MasterZen] I don't think they'll alter their behaviour too much, it would be a give away [16:27] [MasterZen] but you could try and read between the lines of their intentions [16:28] [USC_Lucky] that´s our intention [16:28] [MasterZen] good [16:28] [MasterZen] so, would you consider the embassy thing? I mean, nothing definite right now, but we can discuss it later on [16:29] [USC_Lucky] we cannot assure you of that, as funding such an endeavour will be costly, maybe too costly [16:30] [USC_Lucky] it might be more important to do upgrades ourself [16:30] [USC_Lucky] but if we do, we´ll gladly share any information we get [16:31] [MasterZen] that's a start [16:31] [MasterZen] even though we are farther way, we have every reason to be suspicious of them as you do [16:32] * Trip- has joined #isdg [16:33] [MasterZen] and as you know, the most unlikely plans usually are the most successful, we are of course, planning against the unlikely, they will not catch us off-guard [16:34] * MasterZen sets mode: +o Trip- [16:36] [USC_Lucky] we will see how this develops and keep you up to date if anything arises [16:36] [MasterZen] good, so will we [16:37] [USC_Lucky] we can assure you of our goodwill, our biggest interest is friendly cooperation and we thank you for all deals and treaties so far [16:37] [MasterZen] yes, we too value our relationship highly and hope that it only gets better from here on [16:38] [MasterZen] and rest assured we have our eyes on CDG in case they try anything funny [16:38] [USC_Lucky] good [16:39] [USC_Lucky] then we can leave it as is right now [16:39] [USC_Lucky] and hope for the best in the future [16:39] [MasterZen] yes, agreed [16:39] [MasterZen] well, we can end it here for the moment [16:40] [USC_Lucky] you guys try to see which, if not both, tech trades can be acceptable for you [16:40] [USC_Lucky] and don´t forget to move your warrior [16:40] [MasterZen] ok, we'll send you an official proposal most likely [16:40] [MasterZen] and yes, we'll move the warrior [16:40] [USC_Lucky] thank you [16:41] [MasterZen] good, well it was great talking to you [16:41] [USC_Lucky] indeed, the pleasure was all mine [16:41] [vondrack] it was great listening to you [16:41] [MasterZen] let's see what the future brings to our great teams [16:41] [USC_Lucky] we will surely meet again soon [16:42] [USC_Lucky] until then, goodnight [16:42] [vondrack] good night! [16:42] [MasterZen] good night! [16:42] [CornMaster] later [16:42] * CornMaster has left #isdg [16:43] * USC_Lucky has left #isdg [16:45] * vondrack has left #isdg [16:45] [BigFurryMonster] 'night [16:45] * Panzer32 has left #isdg [16:46] * Togas has left #isdg [16:48] * BigFurryMonster has left #isdg Session Close: Mon May 05 16:49:13 2003

	07-05-2003 01:26									#66
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Message to CDG sent 8 minutes ago.

quote: From: bigfree1 To: Louis XXIV Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:22 pm PST Subject: From the Apolyton Embasssy Hi Louis XXIV We killed a Barbarian close to your border; we will be withdrawing on the next turn. Just thought we'd let you know. BigFree _________________ Ambassador from the Great Apolytonian Nation

	07-05-2003 08:37									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Wow, a timely response from CDG!

quote: Wrom: BDXRQBGJSNB To: bigfree Posted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:10 pm PST Subject: Re: From the Apolyton Embasssy Thanks for the info

	08-05-2003 20:00									#68
	Increase Your PM Length

Ok, some CFC information:

Received from Goonie:

quote: ZargonX, As you are well aware, our two nations had an agreement about the purchasing of Ceremonial Building. It seems that we have come across the tech without a trade, but we would still like to be loyal to you, and our previous agreement. Therefore, we would like to talk to you about what you think would be a fair trade. We hope you can understand our circumstances, and work with them. Fanatikese Ambassador to Apolyton, Goonie

My Response:


Goonie,

A meeting would be an excellent idea! We understand that sometimes circumstances such as these occur beyond one's control, and we appreciate your willingness to discuss a new trade. When would be a good time for you to chat?

Thanks,
ZargonX

	09-05-2003 03:49									#69
	Inflate your Upload Space

Short trade negotiations done with CFC today. ZargonX and I were present but Zargon got distracted by yardwork so I did the brunt of the negotiations. Highlights will be posted in the CFC thread

Here is a log:

Goonie> Ok, so we have Ceremonail Building
Goonie> But we did not buy it from GC
Togas> did you guys research it?
Goonie> So, we want to honour our commitement and still trade it to you
Goonie> Yes we did
Goonie> So, we want to know if you still want to trade
Togas> We'd still like to trade
Goonie> Good
Goonie> Let me pull up my chart
Togas> maybe we can work something out, do you guys have The Wheel?
Goonie> @Togas, we still are missing that technology
Togas> good deal
Togas> CB = 2. Wheel = 4
Goonie> Ok
Goonie> So, I will post this at the forums and get back to you guys
Goonie> Fine with you?
Togas> You don't want to negotiate now?
Goonie> Isn't it the Wheel for CB?
Goonie> Wasn't that your offer?
Togas> Wheel for CB + gold.
Togas> to make it even
Togas> or we throw in some other techs
Goonie> ok
Togas> but we need to come to an agreement on if we do gold or if we do other techs
Goonie> Ok, are there any other first tier techs you are missing?
Togas> sadly, no.
Goonie> Ok, Thats normal
Togas> maybe we can tie in something with our next techs ... what are you guys going for next?
Goonie> How much gold would content you to even out this trade?
Goonie> Thats a good idea
Togas> let's try that first, if we can't get a good tech trade, we'll just settle on a gold amount to even it up.
Goonie> We are heading towards writing at the moment
Goonie> That might no be set in stone
Goonie> What are you heading for?
Togas> we have writing
Togas>
* ZargonX|mowing_lawn is now known as ZargonX
ZargonX> hi guys!
Togas> we're working on Mapmaking now
Goonie> Hola Zargon
ZargonX> sorry, yard worked called...
Goonie> Don't worry
Goonie> Which means you have writing
Togas> we could give you writing (8) + Wheel (4) = 12 ... for CB + something that's a 10 value...
Togas> hmm. The 10s need writing as a pre-req
* Togas ponders...
Goonie> I think we will have to add some gold into the trade.
Togas> probably true.
Togas> do you guys have any interest in going for math?
Goonie> This has been brought up
Togas> it's the same tech value as writing.
Goonie> As I said our research is not set in stone
ZargonX> of course
Goonie> Discussion started on that idea
Goonie> I will throw this into the debate
ZargonX> Goonie, has there been any movement on approving the NAP we sent?
Togas> do you prefer that we structure a large deal, or would you prefer that we just do a small trade first, and then work out a deal for writing next?
Goonie> I think it is easier for everyone to do small deasl
Togas> gotcha.
Goonie> How much gold would you find to be a fair amount to even out this trade
Togas> How about Wheel for Ceremonial Burial and 20g?
Goonie> How much gold = 1 tech value?
Goonie> Or is there nothing specifc.
Togas> Vondrack told me that Ceremonial burial was 48 beakers, I think...
Goonie> ok
Togas> Something to the effect of buying it from the AI would be about 24g, but I'm not sure where he got that from.
Goonie> Alright, that sounds reasonable to me, I will post it, and get back to you.
Togas> Good
ZargonX> Goonie, are you usually around during a certain time of day? For future meetings...
Goonie> Around this time
ZargonX> Oh, excellent.
Goonie> It also depends on the mood of my teachers :/
Togas>
ZargonX> heh, gotcha
Goonie> ie... amount of homework
Goonie> I did 5 hours last night
ZargonX> Oh, Zarn had told me that the non-agression treaty looked acceptable to the leadership, but we never received an offical acceptance
ZargonX> have you heard anything?
Goonie> The poll is still up
Goonie> Not much time left
Togas> how long do you guys poll?
* Goonie is Rocking to: Bob Dylan - Mr Tamborine Man
ZargonX> ah, I see. Democracy at work! Gotta love it!
ZargonX>
Goonie>
Goonie> Oh BTW we are Fanatikou in the MSDG
Togas> MSDG?
Goonie> multi site Demogame

(removed chatter about how we're a Republic and how we have 3 Consuls, etc, etc)

Togas> what's your system?
Goonie> elections every 45 turns
Togas> not bad
Goonie> Lemme show u our constitution
* Goonie needs to scan for any sensitive info
Goonie> uh oh dinner
Goonie> Ill show you later ok
Togas> gotcha
Goonie> My mom doesnt like it when Im late
* Goonie has quit IRC (Quit: )

	09-05-2003 10:22									#70
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Message from Louis XXIV of CDG Recieve 6:55 PM PST MAY 8

quote: Greetings from CDG I bring greetings as the foreign advisor to your great nation, Apolyton I'm not sure when, but it must be close to time to re-negotiate our Non-Agression Treaty I feel the current one is going pretty smoothly, but I understand the need for discussion, so each side can get what he wants Please respond so we can work this out Sincerely, The Sun King Louis XXIV Foreign Advisor of Elucidia

	09-05-2003 10:34									#71
	New GCA Trade Clause Info Support Apolyton

History Buff of GCA contacted me earlier while on ICQ. Nothing much other than to acknowledge our trade agreement.

quote: History Buff (09:06 PM) : ok, looks like the tech trade is a go WhiteBandit (09:06 PM) : Sweetness! WhiteBandit (09:06 PM) : I'll write up the official proposal in a little bit, taking care of some stuff at the moment History Buff (09:06 PM) : ok WhiteBandit (09:11 PM) : looking at the logs, what have you guys decided regarding the tech deal? WhiteBandit (09:12 PM) : it looks like originally Lucky offered CB/HBR/Myst for Map Mapmaking but thought it was kind of awkward History Buff (09:12 PM) : um, whatever you proposed is good, write up a draft. I have to go though cya WhiteBandit (09:12 PM) : oh, ok WhiteBandit (09:14 PM) : Doh, Togas says MM/HBR for poly and Myst? WhiteBandit (09:14 PM) : well i'll write something up and we can figure it out in the draft History Buff (09:15 PM) : thats what I thought, really have to go now

	10-05-2003 04:31									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

This is a summary of a chat held with CDG.

Participants were:
Vondrack
Togas
E_T
BigFree
Kentonio
Louis XXIV
Manya

The meeting with CDG went pretty well. They were excited that we could get along and seemed eager to keep that attitude.

We joked around about Morris keeping "guard" over the Iron he's on and the fact thet he's been providing reports to CDG as to what's happen in our neck of the woods. I told them that we were sending a "relief" for him so that he could go onto other "reporting." Kentonio said that he'd have to talk with his Military advisor, as he controls all units movements. Kentonio also stated that "If we had border's, this wouldn't be an issue..." we let that slide and later said we were happy with the Non-Agg Treaty we had but with one change; that change being to add a "Non Hostile Clause." CDG was happy to agree to this; this is what we call on our team "The Loophole Clause!"

We also talked about WBigFree; Kentonio brought him up and was letting us know that CDG had an offer for us we might be intersted in. I then said we had mixed feelings about him being "stuck" down there, and told him that it was GCA who had requested his removal. This surprised kentonio somewhat, but I asked him to go ahead and state the offer he had in mind. It basically is an offer to allow WBigFree through their land on a designated course. They have offered this because now, since we built the Embassy, they have nothing we haven't seen! I told him that my team would likely be favorable to this.

We also talked about future cooperations where tech is invloved. He couldn't talk of specifics at the moment, but I offered that we could trade MM for Math (what they are currently reasearching) and HBR. That would be a 12(MM) for a 13(Math+HBR). I told him I'd send a proposal as such so that his team could have something to look at.

EDIT by vondrack: I am attaching a log of the chat - a small piece here and there missing (where the images are divided), but just very few lines every time. I am sure I missed nothing important.

Last edited by vondrack on 12-05-2003 at 15:53

	11-05-2003 23:43									#73
	Increase Your PM Length

NAP with CFC accepted!: received from Goonie of CFC

Consider it accepted.
APOLYTONIA AND FANATIKOU HEREBY AGREE:

That we are brothers, bound together in our common desire to survive and prosper. As the world prospers most in times of peace, we wish for there to be peace between us. In order to ensure that peace we hereby agree to the following:

1) There shall be no war or conflict between us. Our units shall not attack each other, nor shall they enter the cultural borders of the other party without permission. This shall be considered a Non-Aggression Pact. There shall also be a 1-tile "buffer zone" around cultural borders. If this buffer must be breached for any reason, warning should be given in advance.

2) We agree to cooperate and communicate regarding any diputes over settlements or scouting. We agree to work out our differences in a chat, should any differences arise.

3) This agreement shall last 30 turns after it is ratified by both parties. This agreement shall be open for renegotiation after 25 turns have passed.



Consider it signed. Also, the trade is going through. We look forward to continued prosperous trades and agreements.

	12-05-2003 09:27									#74
	New GCA Tech Proposal Enter the AD-FREE zone

Alright, this is the newest GCA tech proposal I forwarded to History Buff.

quote: We propose the following: Apolyton agrees to give Gamecatcher's Alliance Map Making and Horseback Riding Gamecatcher's Alliance agrees to give Apolyton Polytheism and Mysticism. This trade is to happen on the first turn in which both parties have acquired the Technologies required for this trade. No Trade Clause Neither Apolyton nor GCA may trade any technology acquired from the other party by this agreement to any other nation for 10 turns after receiving the technology. Non-Voidable If Apolyton aquires Polytheism and/or Mysticism from another source, it does not void Apolyton's obligation to give GCA Map Making and Horseback Riding upon Apolyton's completion of the two technologies. If GCA aquires Mapmaking and/or Horseback Riding from another source, it does not void GCA's obligation to give Apolyton Polytheism and Mysticism upon completion of the research. This is the agreement in whole. WhiteBandit Apolyton Ambassador to GCA Ratified in Apolyton May 11, 2003

	13-05-2003 00:42									#75
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

PM from Kentonio of CDG on 12th May 2003 05:59 AM PST

quote: Firstly if you just recieved a crazy pm from me about stuff from two months ago in the ISDG plz ignore it, i clicked the wrong button. Re the tech trade we talked of the other night we would be happy to participate. The only slight problem may be with the Mysicism part of the maths/myst deal from us. If it does prove to be a problem we can replace it with a slightly higher value tech. Re the other stuff, we look forward to removing Morris from your territory as soon as possible. Is there any positive word on a formal border between us yet that would enable us to do so?

	13-05-2003 09:35									#76
	Tech deal APPROVED with GCA! Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Received from GCA today

------------------------------------------------------

Ok, approved.

WhiteBandit wrote:
We propose the following:

Apolyton agrees to give The Gamecatcher Alliance Map Making and Horseback Riding
The Gamecatcher Alliance agrees to give Apolyton Polytheism and Mysticism.

This trade is to happen on the first turn in which both parties have acquired the Technologies required for this trade.

No Trade Clause
Neither Apolyton nor GCA may trade any technology acquired from the other party by this agreement to any other nation for 10 turns after receiving the technology.

Non-Voidable
If Apolyton aquires Polytheism and/or Mysticism from another source, it does not void Apolyton's obligation to give GCA Map Making and Horseback Riding upon Apolyton's completion of the two technologies.

If GCA aquires Mapmaking and/or Horseback Riding from another source, it does not void GCA's obligation to give Apolyton Polytheism and Mysticism upon completion of the research.

This is the agreement in whole.


WhiteBandit
Apolyton Ambassador to GCA
Ratified in Apolyton
May 11, 2003

History Buff
Acting Science Minister and Ambassador to Apolyton
Ratified by the GCA Cabinet
May 12, 2003

	14-05-2003 04:42									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sent to kentonio and Loius XXIV of CDg 5 minutes ago.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Kentonio

Here's a draft of the NAT. I included a border proposal since you had expressed interest in one in our chat. We are hoping that Morris can continue on his way, if he hasn't already, with the submition of this proposal.

I'm happy to say that our leaders NotYouEither and Vondrack would like to invite you to chat to meet privately with you to have a "summit" between Apolytonia and Elucidia about our nations and our futures. Please let me know when you are free and I will try to set up the chat between you.

Again, I want to express my pleasure that our teams can work together now, and put all that other stuff in the past behind us.

BigFree
Ambassador of the Apolyton Nation


Here's the Treaty:

quote: Apolyton and Elucidia both agree that there shall be peace between our nations and sign this agreement with the intention of maintaining friendly and beneficial relations. Both parties hereby promise: Not to commit any hostile acts for the duration of this agreement. Hostile acts include, but are not limited to: Attacking, capturing a worker, entering cultural borders without permission, remaining inside cultural borders without permission, pillaging a road or improvements. CDG will allow the warrior BigFree to travel north through their cultural territory back to Apolyton. CDG shall tell Apolyton the exact path that BigFree shall take, and shall not block this path. Apolyton shall move BigFree in accordance with the instructions given by CDG. Apolyton and Elucidia agree to not having any units closer than 3 tiles from the outside each other's cultural borders, except where expressly permitted by the other team. Any violation of this treaty by one party allows the other party to void the treaty and report the offending party to the UN. This treaty shall last 30 turns after it is ratified by both parties.

	15-05-2003 05:35									#78
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

PM from CDG via CDG's website.

quote: From: Louis XXIV To: bigfree Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:29 pm PST Subject: Re: NAT I have a few questions about the NAT -Is the 5 square settling line still in place (The one that existed previously?) -Would the 3 square border apply if you are within the 5-square settler line (see above)? -Is this 3-square border a "radius" or a "line"? (A radius is like the cultural radius, a line is what we have for the 5 square settler line, it stretches across) I was wondering if a permenant boundary (one that won't change) is still a possibility. It would probably be the 5 square line, but negotiation is always welcome (of course) Hope we can these questions understood and details hammered out on this treaty. Sincerely Louis XXIV Elucidian Foreign Advisor

	15-05-2003 23:50									#79
	ICQ Stuff Support Apolyton

Just checking my messages on ICQ

Got this from History Buff of GCA

quote: History Buff (10:14 PM) : we're gonna have to ask you to move your warrior to the desert

Also, I responded just now, so he'll find the message when he comes online later

quote: WhiteBandit (11:47 AM) : In regards to Warrior BigFree, I'll pass it on. Message was sent. User is Offline. The message will be delivered when user goes Online. WhiteBandit (11:48 AM) : One other thing to ask you guys, would you be interested in extending our Non-Agression Pact for another 30 turns?

	16-05-2003 15:26									#80
	Get a bigger avatar today!

From: bigfree
To: Louis XXIV (of CDG)
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 1:45 am PST
Subject: Re: NAT

Hi Louis XXIV

I hope these answer your questions, sorry about the delay in getting back to you; school is a real mother right now.

quote: I have a few questions about the NAT -Is the 5 square settling line still in place (The one that existed previously?)

We'd rather not have a Settlement line, but if your team is more comforatable with having one, then we'd like to see the Settling line extended to 6 tiles; a junture that is exactly half way between us (if there needs to be one at all.) We'll leave the choice to your team on this.

quote: -Would the 3 square border apply if you are within the 5-square settler line (see above)?

Yes, There would be no settling farther than the (new)6 tile line we (may) set and then no units can come closer than 3 tiles to either teams cultural borders.

quote: -Is this 3-square border a "radius" or a "line"? (A radius is like the cultural radius, a line is what we have for the 5 square settler line, it stretches across)

It is a radius; as no units can come closer than 3 tiles from any direction to the other teams cultural border's. Units are allowed beyond the settlement line, but must not be able to enter other party's territory in less than 3 turns (1-tile/turn movement assumed)

quote: I was wondering if a permenant boundary (one that won't change) is still a possibility. It would probably be the 5 square line, but negotiation is always welcome (of course)

We are not comforatable with a permanent border as of yet. There are still many unknowns on this landmass. We'd like to be able to weigh our options in the future once some of those variables come to be known.

I hope this is not a major problem for your team.

quote: Hope we can these questions understood and details hammered out on this treaty.

We understand and appreciate the cooperation we are recieving form you guys; it sure is a breath of fresh air!

	16-05-2003 15:28									#81
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

From: bigfree
To: Louis XXIV (of CDG)
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 2:23 am PST
Subject: Tech Trade Proposal


Hi Louis XXIV

This is just a proposal I wanted to send to you guys, so that you have something to consider. Since the last deal we did favored you guys by one point and this one favors us by two points, we can either put you down on the "books" as we "owe" you one point in the future,or we can balance that out by incorporating Ceremonial Burial into the deal somehow (we noticed you still lacked it last turn). Feel free to come with a proposal regarding CB... or anything else you might wish to discuss, of course.


Here's the proposal:

quote: Apolyton will give Elucidia Map Making while Elucidia gives Apolyton Mathematics and Philosophy. Upon completion of the technology that each team is responsible for, the team will offer the said technology to the other team on the turn it is made available to them. This offer will be remade each and every turn thereafter until the other team aquires their required technology for the trade and offer's it in return. Each team will make progress reports to the other team as to when the technologies will be researched and at what turn number they will be completed on.

BigFree

	17-05-2003 05:01									#82
	Support Apolyton

From: Louis XXIV
To: bigfree
Posted: Fri May 16, 2003 2:51 pm PST
Subject: Message from CDG


Ambassador,

In your last message, you spoke of the desire for continued cooperation between our two nations. We would like to take the first step. We agree to the Trade Deal that you proposed. We will even wave the extra point difference as a sign of good will.

However, the need for a perminant border is very much a priority for our national security and interests. There are certain places, which, do to the proximity to our border, we already consider to be part of our territory. No doubt there are some locations that you feel the same about, near Apolytonia. We need to guarantee that these areas remain under our control.

This border must cross completely from one side to the other, and not simply surround our cultural border. It should also corespond with the "settler line", similar to what previously existed (whether this border be 5 squares from the capital or 6 is trivial, but a definant border must be agreed to). All units will remain on their own side of the border, and not cross into the other side.

I hope the Apolytonian Government will take into account these considerations of ours in our continued friendship and mutual prosperity.

Sicerely,
Ambassador Louis XXIV
Elucidian Foreign Ministry

	18-05-2003 13:45									#83
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

From: bigfree
To: Louis XXIV (of CDG)
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 12:38 am PST
Subject: CB offer?

Hi Louis XXIV

On a seperate note from the Tech Proposal and the NAT; We have offered, in game, your Civ CB for sale. We'd like to know how much you would be willing to pay for it. We will agree to any reasonable amount.

BigFree

_________________
Ambassador from the Great Apolytonian Nation

	19-05-2003 01:59									#84
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

From: Louis XXIV (of CDG)
To: bigfree
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 11:28 am PST
Subject: Re: CB offer?


We're not sure yet about purchasing Ceremonial Burial

What price are you offering



~Louis XXIV

	19-05-2003 02:39									#85
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

From: bigfree
To: Louis XXIV (of CDG)
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:38 pm PST
Subject: Re: CB offer?

We would consider 20 gold to be a fair offer.

BigFree

_________________
Ambassador from the Great Apolytonian Nation

	19-05-2003 02:40									#86
	GCA NAP II Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Here is the second NAP to GCA. It's the same thing since it has worked fairly well. Sent to History Buff of GCA:

quote: This is the same thing as before Let me know if there is anything you wish to change or modify! Thanks! ------------- Non-Aggression Pact between Apolyton and GCA: In the interest of peace and future cooperation, to ensure our security and friendship, the nations of Apolyton and The Gamecatcher Alliance glady agree to the following: There shall be no war or conflict between us. Our units shall not attack each other, nor shall they enter or come within 1 tile of the cultural borders of the other party without permission. Nor shall our units interfere with the travel and movement of each other outside of these borders. This agreement shall last 30 turns after it is ratified by both parties. This agreement shall be open for renegotiation after 25 turns have passed This agreement shall not be implied in any way to create an alliance between GCA and Apolyton. This agreement is a pledge between both of our nations to keep the peace and to not engage in hostilities of any kind with each other. In the event that war is declared on or by any nation that Apolyton or GCA is in contact with, this agreement may be re-negotiated upon the agreement of both parties. WhiteBandit

Also, Lucky is on ICQ and is talking to me at the moment. Times are in Pacific

quote: Lucky (02:31 PM) : hi WhiteBandit (02:31 PM) : hey there! Lucky (02:30 PM) : did you get the reply to our new tech treaty? WhiteBandit (02:30 PM) : i'm sending History Buff the NAP agreement extension right now WhiteBandit (02:30 PM) : i did! Lucky (02:30 PM) : so it can be considered official, right? WhiteBandit (02:31 PM) : yeah Lucky (02:31 PM) : very good Lucky (02:31 PM) : and I see the NAP extension is coming along well, too WhiteBandit (02:32 PM) : yeah! i've sent the exact same agreement basically since it seems to have worked fairly well for both of our parties WhiteBandit (02:32 PM) : if there is anything you guys want to change though, let me know! Lucky (02:33 PM) : we´ll look through it and let you know WhiteBandit (02:33 PM) : sounds great WhiteBandit (02:34 PM) : also, i'm supposed to pass on that bigfree moved accordingly as well. we're working with CDG to get BigFree home, so far they've offered to let BigFree go home but only via a route of their choosing, so I guess they are still working on that at the moment WhiteBandit (02:38 PM) : alright, i'm taking off for now. talk to you later Lucky!! Lucky (02:38 PM) : goodnight

	19-05-2003 10:29									#87
	Increase the size of your Attachments

From: bigfree
To: Louis XXIV (of CDG)
Posted: Sun May 18, 2003 9:25 pm PST
Subject: Tech Deal


Hi Louis XXIV

Here's the latest tech trade deal. We have signed the agreement and await your signature.

quote: Apolyton will give Elucidia Map Making while Elucidia gives Apolyton Mathematics and Philosophy. Upon completion of the technology that each team is responsible for, the team will offer the said technology to the other team on the turn it is made available to them. This offer will be remade each and every turn thereafter until the other team aquires their required technology for the trade and offer's it in return. Each team will make progress reports to the other team as to when the technologies will be researched and at what turn number they will be completed on. If either team does not complete their research 25 turns after this agreement is signed, this agreement is null and void. Signed by Apolyton on turn 57-1600 BC

	20-05-2003 02:03									#88
	Put an end to popups!

From: Louis XXIV (of CDG)
To: bigfree
Posted: Mon May 19, 2003 10:23 am PST
Subject: Re: Tech Deal

Maintanence costs are making things a bit more expensive

Could we raise it to a 35 turn deadline?

If that's OK, then I'll sign it as soon as you send confirmation

Thanks,

Louis XXIV

	21-05-2003 03:43									#89
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

From: bigfree
To: Louis XXIV (of CDG)
Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 1:15 pm PST
Subject: Re: Tech Deal

Hi Louis XXIV

In reference to our tech trade proposal we feel that it is critical that we receive the technology from you within 25 turns. We will begin researching The Republic within 25-30 turns from now, and we need to have Philosophy before we begin.

We need to keep the door open to trade with other civs for Philosophy just in case you guys don't have it when we need it. But if your team does finish it and Mathematics before we begin The Republic we will definately get it from you before going to any other civ for it. Another possibility is that you guys can do Philosophy first so that it would not hold up our plans. We could do a partial trade at that point, with you giving us Philosophy so we can go directly to Republic. We could then give you Map Making for Mathematics to finish the deal. Of course all of this will be logged with the UN.

Or, maybe it's best not to sign any formal trade treaties right now. Instead, let's just promise to keep each other informed about when we're done with techs and try to make a trade as soon as practical for both of us. Let me know what you'd prefer. I hope you can understand our position on this. We certainly hope to be able to trade fairly and efficiently with Elucidia.

BigFree

_________________
Ambassador from the Great Apolytonian Nation

	21-05-2003 08:23									#90
	Full PM-box? Change here!

We have Victory in the Technology negotiations with CDG!

From: Louis XXIV
To: bigfree
Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 2:23 pm PST
Subject: Re: Tech Deal
OK, although we would rather have 30 turns for a little breathing room, we agree to the deal as it was sent.

quote: Apolyton will give Elucidia Map Making while Elucidia gives Apolyton Mathematics and Philosophy. Upon completion of the technology that each team is responsible for, the team will offer the said technology to the other team on the turn it is made available to them. This offer will be remade each and every turn thereafter until the other team aquires their required technology for the trade and offer's it in return. Each team will make progress reports to the other team as to when the technologies will be researched and at what turn number they will be completed on. If either team does not complete their research 25 turns after this agreement is signed, this agreement is null and void. Signed by Apolyton on turn 57-1600 BC Signed by Elucidia on turn 57-1600 BC