12-05-2003 02:12									#1
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A fairly long time ago (more than a month less than a year) an event happened to me that is finally almost in the end stages. During that time, I've been arrested, thought it was resolved, then later on when I thought it was over a new prosecutor took over and handed my case over to a grand jury which indicted me on a number of charges (felonies and misdemeanors both). I've hired a lawyer, and tried to fight it as best as my limited funds will allow. What I'm charged with is bogus, but the prosecution has taken the few facts they have and stretched it to the limits of the imagination. I have a pretrial hearing in a few weeks, and hopefully it will all be resolved then (most likely with a plea bargin). If not I will go to trial in a month or so (barring any postponements). Right now if I'm convicted on all charged and giving the maximum penalty, I could serve up to eleven years in prison. However, while one can never be certain about a trial, I think a jury would exonerate me on all charges, thought I don't want to be out the expense of going back to court, which would be quite substantial (for me at least). I don't trust a court appointed lawyer. This would be my first offense though, and everybody seems highly confidant of the outcome.

This event has really had a major impact on my life, and has been the cause of much stress for me. I've felt everyday since this has happened that once the wheels of injustice start turning there is nothing the average person can really do about it without being out quite a bit of money. So does anybody here have any advice, or has underwent a similar experience? When everything is taken care of I'll share my story in full.

	12-05-2003 02:17									#2
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Don't take a plea bargin... take the FREE court appointed lawyer and fight it to the end. If you believe you are innocent... you will win. Now, if you have broken the law, take the plea bargin

	12-05-2003 02:17									#3
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It'd be hard to give advice without more details. What did you, and what were you charged with?

	12-05-2003 02:18									#4
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Oh right, innocent people never go to prison, do they?

	12-05-2003 02:19									#5
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Keep the BS out of this thread Boris.

He needs help.

	12-05-2003 02:22									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Keep the BS out of this thread Boris. He needs help.

That was in response to Ming's assertion he should only plea if he's guilty.

The fact is, he could very well find himself screwed if he does that. He has to look at his chances in a trial realistically, regardless of his actual guilt or innocence. If it looks like the prosecution has him over a chair, it may just be best to accept a plea deal rather than fight it and risk 11 years in prison.

	12-05-2003 02:26									#7
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Ming

the thing is they have enough circumstantial evidence to possibly prove one of the misdemeanors, i'm not sure. it'd be a crap shoot. the scariest thing is that i'm the bible belt full of rural old god fearing ladies who wouldn't hesitate for a second throwing a guy like me to the wolves. and if i take the plea bargin, i would only get like a year's probation from what my lawyer has explained to me, then the charge who go off of my record in a few years. which doesn't sound that bad...the police department is known for corruption though. they've been implicated in a few mysterious deaths for people in their custody and last i heard they a 7 million dollar lawsuit pending against them. so i'm not eager to mess with them at all. i just want it all to be over asap. so i dunno.

	12-05-2003 02:31									#8
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If you think the best they can do is prove one of the misdemeanors, then AVOID any plea, because a single misdemeanor charge is a drop in the bucket and Has to be better than any plea they offer.

And Boris... read his first post... He claims that there is very little they can prove... Based on what he has written so far, he should avoid any admission of quilt.

If he accepts a plea, he is a criminal for THE REST OF HIS LIFE... whenever he applies for a job... He has to say he has been convicted!

If you think you have a reasonable chance to win, FIGHT IT TO THE BITTER END.

	12-05-2003 02:32									#9
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quote: That was in response to Ming's assertion he should only plea if he's guilty. The fact is, he could very well find himself screwed if he does that. He has to look at his chances in a trial realistically, regardless of his actual guilt or innocence.

boris

this is the exact situation i've found myself in

	12-05-2003 02:34									#10
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 boris this is the exact situation i've found myself in

Nahhhh... you should read your first post again.

You feel a jury wouldn't convict you... their evidence is crap... and you just don't want to go to trial because you can't afford it or you don't trust a court appointed lawyer.

If they want to offer you a plea, it's because they don't think they can nail you... So fight it.

	12-05-2003 02:34									#11
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ming

i'd be pleaing to a single misdemeanor with the same basic sentencing guidelines as the one i've been charged with, there are a few differences between them in terms of punishment but not much really

	12-05-2003 02:36									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And Boris... read his first post... He claims that there is very little they can prove... Based on what he has written so far, he should avoid any admission of quilt.

so there we have it, NEVER admit quilt!!!

	12-05-2003 02:40									#13
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 ming i'd be pleaing to a single misdemeanor with the same basic sentencing guidelines as the one i've been charged with, there are a few differences between them in terms of punishment but not much really

Then why not take the chance if you know you are innocent... It doesn't sound like they can make ANY of the other charges stick... Again.. a plea means you ADMIT you are guilty... for the rest of your life.

	12-05-2003 02:40									#14
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Ming

I'm almost positive that they if it goes to a jury i'd get off on all of the felonies, and all but one of the misdemeanors which could go either way. However, in doing so, fighting it would cost significantly more than pleaing, (because all i'd have to do is stay out of trouble for a year which is what i've done my whole life...till this happened) and i've been advised by a very reliable source that the court appointed lawyers wouldn't be very helpful at all. I'm still in school, and trying to work as well. My bail and lawyer cost me more than what I made last year (which i paid out of my own pocket), and going to trial would double that.

	12-05-2003 02:44									#15
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Ask your lawyer (and poerhaps other lawyersm if you can get second opinons) what thier most honest recommendations are, and go with those. I think they would know more about the situation, and your chances one way or the other, than us here at Poly.

	12-05-2003 02:46									#16
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quote: Then why not take the chance if you know you are innocent... It doesn't sound like they can make ANY of the other charges stick... Again.. a plea means you ADMIT you are guilty... for the rest of your life.

i don't have any saving left to fight this, and my family doesn't have the resources to help me out unless they just absolutely have to...

as far as being guilty the rest of my life. my lawyer said the charge would automatically drop from my record in seven years, and i could petition to have it purged in three if i wanted (but it'd cost money to do that)

	12-05-2003 02:47									#17
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GePap

my lawyer said go with the plea if the prosecution would take it

	12-05-2003 02:52									#18
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Not all court appointed lawyers are bad...

Get one appointed, and ask his opinion. Your lawyer doesn't sound like he is looking after your best interest.

He's not the one that has to plead guilty.

AGAIN... you say that the "real" worst case scenario is that you get nailed for the miss... which would be no worse than your plea. Even if the free lawyer sucks (which is just a bad assumption) the worst case is that you are no better off. And YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO WIN, and it will cost you nothing.

	12-05-2003 03:03									#19
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quote: Originally posted by korn469 GePap my lawyer said go with the plea if the prosecution would take it

If all you have said is true, and you might be unable to bear the finantial cost of a trial at this point, plus you have this out of your record in 7 years max (but be really sure, really sure that is correct), then I can see why your lawyer thinks this would be a good idea.

Still, it is your decision. You could also asks your family, or others you trust deeply.

	12-05-2003 03:06									#20
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Ming

I asked one of my relatives who I both respect and trust is in the know about the court appointed attornies in the area and he said avoid them if i could, because in his dealings with them, they have been completely ineffective. My lawyer said the same thing (of course he'd say that but it backs up what I'd already been told).

The thing is if i win, all I win is not being on unsupervised probation for a year and then having the mis on my record for seven. Yet if I lose, even on just the mis, the prosecution could then offer their own punishment recommendation for the mis, (up to 6 months in jail) which they can't under the terms of the plea. Worse on the small chance I lose on even one of the felonies that could be multiple years in prison. I'd like to fight it, but I'm not a gambler like that. The rewards seem less than the potential for disaster.

	12-05-2003 03:11									#21
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Well... only you know the facts of the situation. From what you have presented here, the felonies are no more than a threat by the prosecution to get you to accept a plea, and that there is no way they can prove them.

And I've had friends who have had good court appointed lawyers. And have used them to beat cases like yours.

But again... only you know the real facts... But I wouldn't just roll over if I were you, especially based on what you have posted.

	12-05-2003 03:14									#22
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Is Imran booked up ?

	12-05-2003 03:15									#23
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I was once arrested and charged with a fairly bogus charge. Like in your case the prosicutor tried to play it up to a much worse charge and then at the arranment hearing he tried to get me to plea to the original lesser charge.

My advice is to do what I did and plead not guilty and take the Free lawyer. Believe it or not many of them are quite good and mine convinced the DA to drop the charges rather then waste the tax payer's money going after an innocent guy like me.

	12-05-2003 03:28									#24
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Ming

my current lawyer costs about a year's worth of my wages, and he's been pretty good so far. The prosecution arranged a suprise court hearing, and when I didn't show (they mailed the notice two days before the court hearing and I got it the day after the hearing) they issued an arrest warrant when I didn't show then my lawyer had it quashed. I thought that was pretty cool. Though I'm not sure if I want to put the money to fight it, and be broke for another year. My relative recommended another lawyer. Apparently this lawyer is the top criminal defense lawyer in the area, but he'd cost 1 1/2-2 years worth of wages for me. My relative says this one lawyer would almost certainly win on all charges. I don't have a father, and my mother's small business recently went bankrupt because of a big slowdown in business last year. I have a set of grandparents, but they live off of social security and a meager union pension, so there is no way they could help. I don't really want to bum that much money off of my friends, and if the public attornies are as bad as my relative says, then if we went to trial I could come out convicted of the felonies as well, which would basically derail my life.

The thing that angered me about the entire situation, as that a few months back, all charges against me were supposedly dropped, and I thought it was finished. Yet, they got a new prosecutor who decided to make my case a priority, and he took it before the grand jury, then out of nowhere I was indicted. I didn't even have the indictment until I was setting before the judge. I plead not guilty to all charges, even though I hadn't even read what they'd charged me with. One particularly frustrating thing was they misspelled my name on the indictment! I checked some info on grand juries and they sound truly undemocratic. Also, no I can't get off on a technacality for them misspelling my name. I already asked, lol.

	12-05-2003 03:35									#25
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Most prosicutors want to be DAs and most DAs want to be politicians. How do they move up? By telling the public they're hard on crime and throwing the book at every Tom, ****, and Harry that passes his way.

My suggestion is to hurt his ambition by fighting the case. He wants to win lots of cases so he can brag to his bose about how effective he is. Personally, I think he's hoping most people will take pleas because he certainly won't have the man power or resources to take every case to trial. There for if more people fight the charges then he'll learn to drop the less important cases and dedicate his resources to the most important cases like his predicessor apparently did when he dropped the charges against you the first time.

	12-05-2003 03:36									#26
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The cool thing is if you win then you get to sue the city for damages. Or at least I think that's the case. :hmm:

	12-05-2003 03:51									#27
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Again... court appointed lawyers can be good... and they cost nothing. Don't use money as an excuse to give up... if you do, they win.

It sounds like a jerk is going after you... and his guns aren't very loaded. So he is trying to browbeat you and threaten you with all the extra charges. If you give in, you are doing exactly what he want's you to do.

Again... a free court appointed lawyer is the answer.
Don't plead guilty just because a few of your relatives don't like court appointed lawyers.

	12-05-2003 04:00									#28
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Korn :
I don't know enough about you or your case to give an adapted opinion, so here's something I'd advise in general :
- if your situation is otherwise stable (job, family, free time...), and this case is the only significant concern on your mind, go for it and follow Ming's advice.
- if your situation is generally unstable, and this case is one more big problem, with many others already here, don't go for it. Plea, and be done with it. No need to risk a depression (and the hypothetical prison) to fight the hardon of a prosecutor

	12-05-2003 04:07									#29
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Ming, For most job applications, you only have to report felony convictions, not misdemeanors. In fact, I don't think I've ever only had to report my misdemeanor conviction once (making a public nuicence in a Federal Park).

Oerdin, you can only sue the city if there's evidence of malicious prosecution.

Korn, at the very least, I'd talk to this other lawyer your family recommends and see what he thinks given your circumstances.

	12-05-2003 04:32									#30
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In the US if you win the case does the loser pay your costs?