29-05-2003 15:09									#121
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Oh! I see. When I rushed production before I always got 0 turn left that's why I wondered.

I'm no expert in this area, but there's a formula to rush production to the point where the minerals from the next turn are just enough to complete production.

You save considerable ECs and minerals rushing this way instead of spending the full amount and getting zero as the time to completion.

There are several threads and charts in AC-Strategy which delve into the arcane details of the economics of rushing production.

	29-05-2003 15:20									#122
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Of course I always rush the full amount, incase I need to rush again the next turn (the extra minerals carry over) But since we're BROKE we can't do that right now. We need to make 40ec in the next 7 turns to pay for changing to Planned.

Sorry I couldn't make it, but Mrs Jamski is back

I mean, the football was on

-Jam

	29-05-2003 15:22									#123
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Oh, and upload the pictures to 'poly please Voltaire, I'd like to see them too.

-Jam

	29-05-2003 17:19									#124
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We should probably build solar panels soon, I know this may sound a bit extreme, but in my expirence, The Hive suffers from critical energy shortages and we need to prevent that.

	29-05-2003 17:24									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Static Universe I'm no expert in this area, but there's a formula to rush production to the point where the minerals from the next turn are just enough to complete production.

I think you do this:

Let C be the full cost of rushing
Let T be the amount of turns that are left to build whatever
Let P be the amount you end up paying by using this glorious method

P = C * (T-1/T)

For example if it costs 100 energy to rush it and it would currently be finished in 4 turns, you could get whatever it is you're producing next turn by paying 75 energy:

P = 100 * (3/4)

	29-05-2003 17:39									#126
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I thought that was the standard method???

Isnīt everybody using that formula? That was the first thing I discovered in SMAC to improve ec-stocks... I mean why should there be a "partial payment" option if there was no possibility to use it for good?

Anyway, what should the former do when itīs completed?

	29-05-2003 18:06									#127
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I think putting some solar collectors on the energy squares would be a good idea, seeing as we need money. (That may not be the best thing to do straight away, but it's a good idea anyway IMHO)

	29-05-2003 18:58									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Micha Isnīt everybody using that formula?

Look at my bio you'll see that I am really lacking some critical working experience. Plus I spend all day eithor spamming nonsenses here or trying to crack those gibberish codes when would I learn those standard formulas?

But I feel so loved and special today. I could really feel comrades' warmly help to a late-comer. That is the spirit! men are quite lovely when they do think with their head, not with ... aren't they? Shhh... I didn't say anything.

	29-05-2003 21:00									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Gnool I think you do this: Let C be the full cost of rushing Let T be the amount of turns that are left to build whatever Let P be the amount you end up paying by using this glorious method P = C * (T-1/T) For example if it costs 100 energy to rush it and it would currently be finished in 4 turns, you could get whatever it is you're producing next turn by paying 75 energy: P = 100 * (3/4)

Not quite. It's based on the value of 1 min = 2 energy (except for the first row), regardless of # turns left to complete)

So:

If C is the full cost of rushing
and if the base is producing N minerals per turn

P = C - (2*N)


So if it costs 100 energy to fully rush, and your base is producing 6 minerals per turn, the partial rush cost is then:

100 - 12 (i.e. 2 * 6 ) = 88 ecs

G.

	30-05-2003 03:16									#130
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but the cost per mineral I have found is not constant. the last few minerals may cost 2/min but I have found it rising to 3/min and 4/min as you rush buy it earlier, and that is after the first 10 minerals are placed.

	30-05-2003 03:18									#131
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Turn Update
2107













Alright, hopefully everyone can see the images now.

-Chairman Voltaire

	30-05-2003 09:06									#132
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No problems on my end, Comrade Chairman.

	30-05-2003 13:53									#133
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Re Rush-building:

I thought the cost increased for each row of 10 minerals. Last row costs 2ec per mineral, penultimimate row 3ec per mineral, 3rd from last, 4ec per mineral etc...

-Jam

	30-05-2003 19:45									#134
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Just a question, why is 10% of our money going to psych? I thought we wouldn't need to spend anything on psycho because our base sizes aren't large enough to have drone riots. (Please correct me if I'm wrong or missing something).

	30-05-2003 19:57									#135
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Because of roundings the energy income is higher with 10% psych... Load the turn and try it yourself

It was a suggestion by Googlie, our one and only God. You donīt want to question what he said, do you?

	31-05-2003 06:19									#136
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things look in order. Are we going to terraform-improve Fellowship city's nutrient resources anytime soon, or will we be focusing on another base first? My main problem is that there is no growth for that base.

	31-05-2003 08:45									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Re Rush-building: I thought the cost increased for each row of 10 minerals. Last row costs 2ec per mineral, penultimimate row 3ec per mineral, 3rd from last, 4ec per mineral etc... -Jam

Yes - the cost does increase for units and for SP's (but not for facilities), but once you know what that cost is it's always the same formula to rush to the 1 year completion level

For Units. once you are given the cost to fully rush, it's always a constant from that point on, reagrdless of the # rows left to fill - and that constant is the quoted full cost minus twice the base's mineral production

I'm not sure that anyone successfully plotted how the full rush formula works. I ran a simulation on 2 units - a laser interceptor (costs 320 with 4 rows of 10 minerals) and a shard needlejet (costs 1170 with 9 rows of ten minerals). Here are the results:

# rows to complete (mins) ........full 'hurry' cost ..... energy = * mins

Interceptor:

4 (40 minerals) ............ 320 .... 8
3 (30 mins) .................. 105 .... 3.5
2 (20 mins) .................. 60 .... 3
1 (10 mins) .................. 25 .... 2.5
1/2 (5 mins) ................. 11

Shard Penetrator:

9 (90 mins) .................. 1170 .... 13
8 (80 mins) .................. 480 .... 6
7 (70 mins) .................. 385 .... 5.5
6 (60 mins) .................. 300 .... 5
5 (50 mins) .................. 225 .... 4.5
4 (40 mins) .................. 160 .... 4
3 (30 mins) .................. 105 .... 3.5
2 (20 mins) .................. 60 .... 3
1 (10 mins) .................. 25 .... 2.5
1/2 (5 mins) ................. 11

(Note that from 30 minerals down it was the same for both units)

For facilties, it's always twice the # minerals after the first 2 rows (or 1st row for the big faciltiies when the box gets scrunched into elongated rows) which cost 4 per mineral

G.

	31-05-2003 23:57									#138
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Ok turn's up again, I'll be on MSN for the next 1 to 2 hours. If anyone shows up we'll conduct the turnchat, if not I will proceed to do it myself.

-Your extremely sleep deprived Chairman

	01-06-2003 00:51									#139
	Turn Update-2108 Increase the size of your Attachments

Turn Update
2108











Not much to report, popped a pod to the west where the rover is currently located and received nutrient resources. The former we've produced in Fellowship City is planting a forest in the tile to the north of the city.

-Chairman Voltaire

	01-06-2003 01:50									#140
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Did I miss the turnchat? My MSN account is set up at staticuniverse@hotmail.com. Do not email this account as I do not plan on reading it.

	01-06-2003 04:51									#141
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The area with the two minerals and new nutrients, on a west side of the hill, would be a very good new base site.

	02-06-2003 08:20									#142
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Here are my move requests for next turn. Please take them into consideration Glorious Comrade Chairman.



Also, may I suggest that, considering a second former is being built at fellowship city, the production at Voltairograd be changed to a Colony Pod (we need to expand, and Fellowship city is stagnant right now and thus perfect for former production, while Voltiarograd is growing)?

- Rokossovky

Last edited by Rokossovky on 02-06-2003 at 09:20

	02-06-2003 10:04									#143
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Would it going for a new base be a better as not only do you get 2 squares of harvesting (base & one other) but free minerals to help build a new former?

	02-06-2003 10:11									#144
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After we complete the former at fellowship city, may I humbly submit that we produce another scout patrol (we can always use them to go mindworm hunting to increase our ec's)? Also, can we pretty pretty please research doctrine: mobility next? I will feel much better when we have some mechanized units (other than unity rover).

- Rokossovky

Last edited by Rokossovky on 02-06-2003 at 10:21

	02-06-2003 10:13									#145
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Well I am supporting your recommendation for a new colony pod. I am just asking if anyone would like to comment on my thoughts on the benefits of a new base vs a new former.

	02-06-2003 12:48									#146
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Build a new base I say.

	02-06-2003 13:13									#147
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New former. I believe a new base can wait. If we build a former, we can speed up our unit production/increase energy/jump start our population. Although it will be a small delay now, we'd reap the fruits later.

With new former, we can improve our tiles and have our bases grow faster as well as link up our bases faster.

	02-06-2003 13:37									#148
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I agree with Comrade Rokossovky that a colony pod should be constructed at Voltiarograd. A second former is a luxury that can wait.

	02-06-2003 13:40									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan New former. I believe a new base can wait. If we build a former, we can speed up our unit production/increase energy/jump start our population. Although it will be a small delay now, we'd reap the fruits later. With new former, we can improve our tiles and have our bases grow faster as well as link up our bases faster.

We would still be getting a second former from Fellowship city that can be used around Voltairograd.

	02-06-2003 16:42									#150
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Colony Pod

We should build sooooooooooo many bases as possible.

-Jam