27-05-2003 17:09									#1
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Is Global Wealth just one Giant Pyramid scheme? Where do you fall? Who's on top? How did they get there?

1 (Gates)
10 (Warren Buffet, Paul Allen, The Walton Family, Lawrence Ellison, Steven Ballmer, Michael Dell)
100 (Forbes 500)
1,000 (Forbes 500)
10,000 (?)
100,000 (?)
1,000,000 (?)
10,000,000
100,000,000 (You?!)
1,000,000,000 (You?)
4,889,888,990 (The combined populations of impoverished and middle class Africa, South America, Asia, Europe, and North America, and you?)

- Almost all of the top 3 layers of this pyramid scheme are all corporate leaders...and probably a good portion of the next few layers...

- Only 2 of the top 11 are women, and are both with the same corporation (Wal*Mart).

- Nearly half of the top 500 are Americans.

- 9 of the top 10 are American.

What does this say about the world of wealth we live in? Does wealth (and correspondingly, power) really flow from the hands of the few elite into the gaping open mouths of the majority? Or is this all just communist left-wing bunk designed to weasel hard working intelligent people out of their hard earned money?

Last edited by orange on 27-05-2003 at 17:58

	27-05-2003 17:28									#2
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found at the forbes link

David Filo (yahoo).
570.000.000 $ (!)
36 years old (!!)
single

what a lucky bastard.

	27-05-2003 17:32									#3
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I am in the top Billion. ( The layer that you've missed. )

	27-05-2003 17:42									#4
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Oedo: he's not. You know how hard is it to get a date for such a guy, and actually have a chance of that date not being with you for the money?

* The rich cry, also. *

	27-05-2003 17:56									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I am in the top Billion. ( The layer that you've missed. )

oops! let me edit that in

	27-05-2003 18:55									#6
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You 4,889,888,990 lesser folk can kiss my ass!

	27-05-2003 19:27									#7
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Communist!

	27-05-2003 20:16									#8
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I used to draw a pyramid of income in order to visualized how exploitation works.

In a triangle, draw 10 layers or so. Then, starting from the second layer, draw a line parallel to the right side of the triangle, within the triangle. This represents the income taken by the first layer on all other layers; it will receive the same colour as the first layer. Then repeat for the third layer, and all others till the ninth.

This pyramid of exploitation just shows that whatever is your layer (except the last one) you exploit all people below, consciously or not. But it does not answer the question of the legitimacy of the exploitation. In other world, the last layer would probably not be better off if they eliminated the nine layers above them.

	27-05-2003 20:38									#9
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Ran a search for my last name...No results! Guess I had better give up the dream of that unknown rich uncle...

	27-05-2003 20:39									#10
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I have a guy with my exact name running REUTERS for a while.

	27-05-2003 20:44									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT This pyramid of exploitation just shows that whatever is your layer (except the last one) you exploit all people below, consciously or not.

That's not necesssarily true. Productive classes don't necessarily exploit those below them. Most of the working class relies on its own muscle for whatever income it has. Yuo might claim exploitation based on the products they buy, since farm workers are massively exploited, and about $50 a year of that exploitation is passed along to consumers.

	27-05-2003 20:49									#12
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Yeah, and how can Gates exploit Buffet?

	27-05-2003 20:55									#13
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's not necesssarily true. Productive classes don't necessarily exploit those below them. Most of the working class relies on its own muscle for whatever income it has. Yuo might claim exploitation based on the products they buy, since farm workers are massively exploited, and about $50 a year of that exploitation is passed along to consumers.

The working class benefits from the work of the underproletariat, either dirty works, or work included in imported goods, or imported spare parts included in finish products. And this is no surprise since this is for a big part the result of the action of the silly, selfish consumers, who are mainly workers.

	27-05-2003 20:56									#14
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We need this natural variation in income/wealth in order to create incentives.

	27-05-2003 20:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Yeah, and how can Gates exploit Buffet?

This is a metaphoric approach which cannot be illustrated by individuals ... although I can imagine either one exploiting the other.

Are not they friends, playing poker regularly?

	27-05-2003 21:17									#16
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"In other world, the last layer would probably not be better off if they eliminated the nine layers above them."

Sure we would! We'd steal their houses and keep their tvs!

	27-05-2003 21:24									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT The working class benefits from the work of the underproletariat, either dirty works, or work included in imported goods, or imported spare parts included in finish products. And this is no surprise since this is for a big part the result of the action of the silly, selfish consumers, who are mainly workers.

Benefit is different from exploit.

	27-05-2003 21:27									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT This is a metaphoric approach which cannot be illustrated by individuals ... although I can imagine either one exploiting the other. Are not they friends, playing poker regularly?

Of course the're friends. Where would they find friends elsewhere. Anyway, that is friends who don't just kiss their ass.

	27-05-2003 21:30									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Benefit is different from exploit.

The word benefit hurts less than exploitation, but the end result is the same : a part of their standard of living results from the work of poorer people.

	27-05-2003 21:34									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT The word benefit hurts less than exploitation, but the end result is the same : a part of their standard of living results from the work of poorer people.

And the reverse is true then also. The lower class benefits from the middle class. But the lower and middle class do not benefit from the upperclass because of expolitation.

	27-05-2003 21:36									#21
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 "In other world, the last layer would probably not be better off if they eliminated the nine layers above them." Sure we would! We'd steal their houses and keep their tvs!

Certainly, as soon as you have designed a peaceful way to share 1 million or 10 millions houses between 5 billions of candidates!

	27-05-2003 21:40									#22
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The communist buzzwords are thick as sh!t in this thread. I thought communism had finally been thrown in the trashbin of history?

	27-05-2003 21:52									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The communist buzzwords are thick as sh!t in this thread. I thought communism had finally been thrown in the trashbin of history?

Problem with words, with facts, with what ?

	27-05-2003 21:55									#24
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Well, let's start with the words. Like "underproletariat".

	27-05-2003 21:57									#25
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Chegitz,

Farmers are NOT massively exploited. They provide a good that everyone needs, thus they have a guaranteed job. Plus, the term "exploitation" is bullshit anyway - no one is being forced to work for free, and no one is forced to keep a job they don't like.

	27-05-2003 21:58									#26
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Well, let's start with the words. Like "underproletariat".

Not intended to offense; if I say people working in sweatshops, is it better (even if it means the samething) ?

	27-05-2003 22:20									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The communist buzzwords are thick as sh!t in this thread.

What did you expect to find in here? Anyway, do you have a problem discussing the hierarchy of the system? Don't think it plays a role?

	27-05-2003 22:29									#28
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I have a lot of left-wing ideas, but this "exploitation" idea bothers me. Why is it exactly that if you are under other people, you are then being exploited? It seems like a negative connotation is being ascribed to the natural stratification of society.

A major problem with Communism to me is that it looks like nobody is willing to accept any responsibility for their position in life, and by extension their own actions. Is social position really always linked to exploitation, or is it just people shirking responsibility?

	27-05-2003 22:37									#29
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cyclotron: This is not true. In my society ( call it extreme socialist, not communist, whatever) We'll any proffession that we have today, except a handful of them. You'll still be the one to choose who do you want to be. You still be taking responisbilities in your life. Why not so?

	27-05-2003 22:39									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Yeah, and how can Gates exploit Buffet?

He must have! Everyone knows that rich people are evil capitalist exploiters of the people.