28-05-2003 22:03									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Sava oh great! I have 300 bucks! That should make up for the 6 grand I've lost from my 401k. dumbass Republicans...

Why should they be responsible for your dumbass investment choices?

	28-05-2003 22:05									#32
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Make the military pay back that trillion dollars they lost. Tax cut paid for and then some.

	28-05-2003 22:06									#33
	Put an end to popups!

Also what do you folks think of Warren Buffet? He went on the record as saying a cut in Dividends probably won't cause companies to invest in greater output nor will most consumers get a meaningful amount of money out of it so they aren't going to spend more thus the single largest part of Bush's tax plan won't do anything meaningful to the national economy. It will give a slush fund to the super rich who traditionally stuff their extra money into the stock market so stocks might go up a bit.

The problem is if the upside is dubious the downside is very clear and extremely certain. The budget decites are going to require large tax increases to pay off, the government is going to have to pay more interest on the national debt inorder to keep borrowing, and privite citizens are going to get hammered by the interest rate increases. Buffet even went so far as to say Bush's plan was nothing less then class warfare against the poor; remember Buffet is a republican and a man who will greatly benifet from Bush's tax give away.

	28-05-2003 22:06									#34
	Inflate your Upload Space

EDIT: asinine statement I made...

	28-05-2003 22:08									#35
	Got spare money?

EDIT: the same... it's better to ignore

	28-05-2003 22:10									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Sava You don't know sh1t about my investments... so STFU

I only know what you've said. Going from that, they sound like fairly dumbass choices.

	28-05-2003 22:12									#37
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Make the military pay back that trillion dollars they lost. Tax cut paid for and then some.

Sorry Che. There is waste but any claims of trillions is just a pipe dream. Making claims like that is just stupid.

What they should do is cut spending for future weapon systems, especially weapon systems that we don't need (I.E. Rummy's pet projects) and delay purchases of new weapons and machines until the military full funds the maintance of it's current equipment. There is a game in the military where divert maintance funds to a worthless pet project (like the rifle Rummy wants to replace the M-16 which is just happens to weight 45 pounds!!!!!!!! when loaded; trying aiming with that P.O.S.. BTW an M-16 weights around 12-16lbs loaded depending on magazine size) and then claiming they need additional funds because the equipement isn't being maintained.

The money is there it just needs to be spent correctly.

	28-05-2003 22:12									#38
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DD: Well I apologize for being curt in that manner, it's a sensitive subject. You shouldn't make assumptions. Perhaps a better indicator of economic performance would be the current economic conditions.

	28-05-2003 22:20									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Also what do you folks think of Warren Buffet? He went on the record as saying a cut in Dividends probably won't cause companies to invest in greater output nor will most consumers get a meaningful amount of money out of it so they aren't going to spend more thus the single largest part of Bush's tax plan won't do anything meaningful to the national economy. It will give a slush fund to the super rich who traditionally stuff their extra money into the stock market so stocks might go up a bit. The problem is if the upside is dubious the downside is very clear and extremely certain. The budget decites are going to require large tax increases to pay off, the government is going to have to pay more interest on the national debt inorder to keep borrowing, and privite citizens are going to get hammered by the interest rate increases. Buffet even went so far as to say Bush's plan was nothing less then class warfare against the poor; remember Buffet is a republican and a man who will greatly benifet from Bush's tax give away.

Buffet is clearly a man who does not bother himself with left and right distinctions. He is also a man with a not well shared intellectual quality : he thinks long term. Considering the number and difficulty of the problems currently faced by the US, he certainly believes that the fiscal priorities are not on the detaxation of dividends.

	28-05-2003 22:23									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Sorry Che. There is waste but any claims of trillions is just a pipe dream. Making claims like that is just stupid.

That's what I get for watching FOXNews.

	28-05-2003 22:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Also what do you folks think of Warren Buffet? He went on the record as saying a cut in Dividends probably won't cause companies to invest in greater output nor will most consumers get a meaningful amount of money out of it so they aren't going to spend more thus the single largest part of Bush's tax plan won't do anything meaningful to the national economy. It will give a slush fund to the super rich who traditionally stuff their extra money into the stock market so stocks might go up a bit. The problem is if the upside is dubious the downside is very clear and extremely certain. The budget decites are going to require large tax increases to pay off, the government is going to have to pay more interest on the national debt inorder to keep borrowing, and privite citizens are going to get hammered by the interest rate increases. Buffet even went so far as to say Bush's plan was nothing less then class warfare against the poor; remember Buffet is a republican and a man who will greatly benifet from Bush's tax give away.

W. Buffet is right on about everything. The president knows taxes will have to be increased again, but he is just trying to put money in the pockets of the rich while he can. Who pays the future tax increase will depend on the next govt so we might even see the middle class pay most of it.

	28-05-2003 22:32									#42
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quote: we might even see the middle class pay most of it

Of course... god forbid we have an economic system that's fair!

	28-05-2003 22:34									#43
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UMMMMM........6M in lost 401K, shouldn't have diversified in Janus 20, got all my 401k and still gaining, slowly but at a plus. Blame the Republicans not the .com's, yea right, now there is ignorance.

	28-05-2003 22:34									#44
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I like Warren Buffet. Yet, I feel that comment was made in order to create more buisness ops for himself, since he does invest, primarily, in failing buisness.

	28-05-2003 22:40									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant UMMMMM........6M in lost 401K, shouldn't have diversified in Janus 20, got all my 401k and still gaining, slowly but at a plus. Blame the Republicans not the .com's, yea right, now there is ignorance.

Sadly, I didn't invest in any .com's or anything like that. I was stupid I suppose. I thought that a corporate 401k was something that could be trusted. Gone are the days where one could work and earn a retirement pension, unless of course, you're a worthless CEO that drives your company into bankrupcy... then you get a fat retirement plan.

I blame the Republicans for making a bad situation worse. And getting money for their rich friends instead of working to correct things. When it comes to their economic policies... there are two possibilities.

1. They believe their trickle down bullsh1t and they are just really stupid.

2. They propagate the practice knowing full well it doesn't work and they are evil

Evil or stupid... which is it?

	28-05-2003 23:06									#46
	Tired of ads?

Or third Sava, the Republicans believe that, the money you make should be yours to spend.
Look, I don't like anyone losing money in their 401K, it is your hard earned money and you will need it someday. But most 401K's now let you diversify where you want, and that is the way it should be. Where I work here, we had smartasses running around when the NasDaq was around 5,000 saying to me how dumb I was for not jumping on the high risk ventures like Janus 20, but to me the Nasdaq grew too fast too much, c'mon delivering grocieries in Chicago via internet at the same price as if you went to the store, doesn't even come close to good business sense. Something had to give and in the Spring of 2001 it did and it crashed like a turd. Those same asses that were saying how dumb I was now were telling me how they lost an equivelent of a house in their 401K.
Then on 9-11 we took another hit to the financial status of America. BTW, welcome to the Presidency President Bush and this all happened in his first year hardly the one to blame. I think Greenspan has done an excellent job, this could have been alot worse.

	28-05-2003 23:08									#47
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quote: the money you make should be yours to spend

I think it's more... the money we ("we" being the elite) should be allowed to spend our money... the middle class should pick up the tab.

	28-05-2003 23:17									#48
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I am of the middle class and I believe I pick up more than my share of the tab but I also believe we, (United States) spend way too much money in the gov't and if we cut costs we can all win. The rich do pay the most in taxes, income or otherwise so it is only fair they get a break and hopefully they will invest, jobs created so on and so forth. They got rich somehow, hopefully not handed down from daddy but through business they will want to continued to work and create jobs.
If you look at the individual millionaries in Congress and or serving public office, I think you will find more of them are Democrats now, so who really is for the common man?

	28-05-2003 23:21									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant They got rich somehow, hopefully not handed down from daddy but through business they will want to continued to work and create jobs.

90% of the rich were born that way.

	28-05-2003 23:23									#50
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I can list a shithouse full of football players that were not.

	28-05-2003 23:24									#51
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quote: hopefully not handed down from daddy

you're talking about our president

quote: If you look at the individual millianaries in Congress and or serving public office, I think you will find more of them are Democrats now, so who really is for the common man?

I'm not a big Democrat supporter. They are the lesser of two evils. I think you are probably correct. But I bet the Dem's have more self-made wealth, whereas the Republicans are a "good old boys club" of inherited wealth.

I'd rather see more small businesses and people working for themselves rather than working for someone else or a big corporation. And let's be honest... looking at the Reagan cuts, and the Bush 2001 cuts, they haven't created any jobs. But look at Clinton's 1993 plan and the jobs that were created between 93-98.

Forgive me for being a simpleton, maybe there are other factors out there, but I'm a cause and effect thinker. I see a cause, I see an effect, and I form an opinion.

	28-05-2003 23:27									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant I can list a shithouse full of football players that were not.

They fall into the 10%.

	28-05-2003 23:30									#53
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Lets just make sure it is the right cause to the effect.
Don't forget that big business boom was part of the .com's and responsible for the crash of 2001.
In all honesty, Clinton's economic advisors should have warned him that those business's will not survive.

You are absolutely right, it would have been nice if Jr. would have taken the millions daddy gave and created a business, not just buy an existing one but create a new one with new jobs. But if I made millions and wanted to leave it to my daughter, that should be my right.

	28-05-2003 23:31									#54
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All the football players, hockey, basketball, baseball, golf and every other end of high end sports, only 10%, you wouldn't happen to have a source for this now would you.

	28-05-2003 23:35									#55
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Hey, I took a hit on my 401(k) too - most people did - but I view it as a long term investment, and am not particularly concerned. And I sure as hell don't blame the Republicans for it.

I do place some blame on government in general (both parties) for failing to have a SHRED of fiscal responsibility, but apparently that would make you unelectable, so I'm up shits creek with that one.

-Arrian

	28-05-2003 23:52									#56
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara 90% of the rich were born that way.

Where did you read that? I some how remember the book "The Millionare Next Door" showing studies that the vast majority of millionares in this country are first generation millionares. The estate tax is so large that we don't have a vast number of second, much less third, generation wealthy people running around.

	28-05-2003 23:54									#57
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quote: An amazing fact: 80% of millionaires are first generation millionaires; they have made their money on their own, in their lifetime. ...

http://www.teleclassinternational.c...tevemattos.html

quote: ... people who believe most wealth is inherited and "you can’t make it in America today," eighty percent of America’s millionaires are first-generation rich. ...

http://www.profitadvisors.com/millionaire.shtml

	29-05-2003 00:01									#58
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Those numbers I am more likely to believe.

	29-05-2003 00:06									#59
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Sell and privitize the USPS
Cut military spending by $100 Bn
Cut all foreign aid to developed countries (such as israel, germany, france, england and this includes military aid)
Cut all corporate subsidies, tax breaks etc.
Lower tariffs (this means goods cost less so americans have more money and can buy more)
Legalize all drugs (60% of criminals in jail are in because of drug related crimes. If all of those guys are released, overcrowding wont be a problem, nor will paying $20,000 a year per prisoner because there are 60% less of them, nor will the cost of guards, and facilities since we can tear some of them down)

Does anyone know how much this will save?

	29-05-2003 00:10									#60
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The average American millionaire makes $95,000 per year, he lives in a home worth $325,000, he is married with two kids neither of which live at home with him, he has never been divorced, his wife is most likely working part time but stayed at home when the kids were young, the two most commonly owned cars are a Ford Thaurus and a Toyota Camery, he wears a suit he bought off the rack at Sears, his kids went to public school but his grandkids go to privite school, about half owned their own company while the other half worked for someone else, and the average American millionaire has a bachelor's degree from a state school.

What's the big common factor between all of these millionaires? They save, save, save. that's right these guys are frugal, they clip coupons, there car is 5 years old on average, and they tend to think of things in a long term fashion ("Where do I want to be in 5 or 10 years" verses "Where do I want to go on vacation next month").