29-05-2003 00:13									#61
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USPS breaks even with postage charged, they are really no expense to the people except what you pay for postage either individually or corporate.

Legalize "ALL" drugs, slight problem there, cocaine and heroine are kind of dangerous and more costs would be generated if you made them legal.

Cut our military by 100B, if you can keep the same lethality of it, I am all for it.

	29-05-2003 00:17									#62
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Damn Oerdin,
You just described my father, these kind of guys should be our elected officials, then **** would be done right.

	29-05-2003 00:23									#63
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quote: Legalize "ALL" drugs, slight problem there, cocaine and heroine are kind of dangerous and more costs would be generated if you made them legal.

What sort of costs?

quote: USPS breaks even with postage charged, they are really no expense to the people except what you pay for postage either individually or corporate.

Source?

	29-05-2003 00:25									#64
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Lawrence: The USPS was reformed in the mid 1970's and hasn't cost the tax payer $0.01 since then.

	29-05-2003 00:25									#65
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Tuome! I wish to see the picture!

Post it in Suomithreadi or something.

	29-05-2003 00:29									#66
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quote: Lawrence: The USPS was reformed in the mid 1970's and hasn't cost the tax payer $0.01 since then.

Ok, I'll believe it.
So why not privitize it then?

	29-05-2003 00:31									#67
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Geee Larry,
Alcohol is bad enough, don't you think people on Crack and Heroine which is extremely addictive will kill people accidentally or on purpose and not only that, once addicted they will sell or steal to feed their habit, or haven't you been watching TLC or Discovery. Kind of a known fact. Also I am a manager in a Mail Order company, postage is kind of a big deal to our business and Oerdin covered it as well, it is a known fact that USPS in self sufficient.

	29-05-2003 00:31									#68
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the real point is that millionaires are not that rich anymore

you need at least 3 or 5 million

JHon Miller

	29-05-2003 00:32									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Ok, I'll believe it. So why not privitize it then?

	29-05-2003 00:34									#70
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Larry,
You privatize it or run more efficient so I don't have to pay 546,000 dollars to mail x million amout of catalogs in January so we can make a better bottom line so maybe I could get a raise.

	29-05-2003 00:42									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The average American millionaire makes $95,000 per year, he lives in a home worth $325,000, he is married with two kids neither of which live at home with him, he has never been divorced, his wife is most likely working part time but stayed at home when the kids were young, the two most commonly owned cars are a Ford Thaurus and a Toyota Camery, he wears a suit he bought off the rack at Sears, his kids went to public school but his grandkids go to privite school, about half owned their own company while the other half worked for someone else, and the average American millionaire has a bachelor's degree from a state school. What's the big common factor between all of these millionaires? They save, save, save. that's right these guys are frugal, they clip coupons, there car is 5 years old on average, and they tend to think of things in a long term fashion ("Where do I want to be in 5 or 10 years" verses "Where do I want to go on vacation next month").

In many ways quite similar to my parents. Save, save, save. Drive 10 yr old cars. Think far into the future. The income level & house worth are a bit off, but if you adjust for the cost of living in Southern Connecticut vs. the US average, it's probably really close.

-Arrian

	29-05-2003 00:51									#72
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If we're talking about the wealthiest 5% in the US we're not talking about millionaires and I think its quite clear that most of them are born wealthy.

	29-05-2003 00:53									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia Ok, I'll believe it. So why not privitize it then?

There is a legal problem. The country's constitution legally requires the federal government to maintain a nation wide postal service.

	29-05-2003 00:57									#74
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quote: Originally posted by gsmoove23 If we're talking about the wealthiest 5% in the US we're not talking about millionaires and I think its quite clear that most of them are born wealthy.

Moove: What are you basing this assumption upon? I see no reason why the trend would be any different especially since the estate tax will still take a 50%-80% wack out of daddy's money before junior gets his paws on it.

	29-05-2003 01:00									#75
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Its not a trend Oerdin. Your book talks about people with reasonably high salaries and savvy investment practices coupled with frugality. This is not a trend for the top 5% of the US. It is a completely different scale and if your starting from scratch it would probably involve killing a few people or a few thousand to amass that much.

	29-05-2003 01:02									#76
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Point of information: you get $600,000 before that 50% estate tax kicks in, right?

That's not going to really make a difference to someone inheriting a billion, because $500,000,000 and $500,600,000 are essentially the same. But it sure makes a difference to, um, say... me.

-Arrian

	29-05-2003 01:02									#77
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...and my name isn't something a cow with a speech impediment would say . Too lazy to type gs?

	29-05-2003 01:04									#78
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quote: if your starting from scratch it would probably involve killing a few people or a few thousand to amass that much

Who did Bill Gates kill? Man, the Microsoft hatred is just outta control!

-Arrian

	29-05-2003 01:07									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Who did Bill Gates kill? Man, the Microsoft hatred is just outta control! -Arrian

It would obviously involve not getting caught.

...and I wouldn't put it past him.

	29-05-2003 01:07									#80
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quote: Originally posted by gsmoove23 ...and my name isn't something a cow with a speech impediment would say . Too lazy to type gs?

I'm a lazy bastard. You should know that by now.

	29-05-2003 01:43									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I like Warren Buffet. Yet, I feel that comment was made in order to create more buisness ops for himself, since he does invest, primarily, in failing buisness.

There's no shortage of those.

	29-05-2003 01:48									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant The rich do pay the most in taxes, income or otherwise so it is only fair they get a break and hopefully they will invest, jobs created so on and so forth.

No one gets rich by working. Work only pays so much. You get rich by making investments. Now you may say it's not fair to tax lucky people, but I say it's not fair to tax working people when there are lots of lucky people out there ripe for taxation.

	29-05-2003 01:48									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Where did you read that? I some how remember the book "The Millionare Next Door" showing studies that the vast majority of millionares in this country are first generation millionares. The estate tax is so large that we don't have a vast number of second, much less third, generation wealthy people running around.

Depending on how you make your money, estate tax can be a non-issue. If you're the capitalist working stiff who makes it, you can shuffle off ownership during your lifetime to your kids via trusts, nepotistic employment and share transfers (and even get some nice tax bennies ) without problems.

If you sit on a lot of passive income producing assets, then yes, you get screwed, but you can still get around it if you do it before you kick off, or are on your deathbed.

	29-05-2003 01:52									#84
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What you call lucky, someone might call calculated, you have to explain your definition of lucky.

	29-05-2003 01:54									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious No one gets rich by working. Work only pays so much. You get rich by making investments. Now you may say it's not fair to tax lucky people, but I say it's not fair to tax working people when there are lots of lucky people out there ripe for taxation.

Commie.

So how do you get the capital to make the investments?

If you look at the FFH list, most of those people made their money entrepreneurially, by bringing something new to the market and creating wealth, not by direct investment.

Whether it's software, natural gas pipeline company offshore affiliate loan bubbles , or anything else, there's a bunch of work involved. It just happens that the perceived market value of that "work" is more than the perceived market value of the average shop rat's work.

	29-05-2003 01:57									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant What you call lucky, someone might call calculated, you have to explain your definition of lucky.

Lucky, well how about inheritance or just a lucky business investment? Calculating, how about if I do some calculating for you and you pay me a few cool million .

	29-05-2003 01:58									#87
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Lucky business investment, I have never heard of a lucky business investment, people don't pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into an investment to rely on luck. Wish it was that simple.

	29-05-2003 02:00									#88
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat So how do you get the capital to make the investments?

Usually you borrow it or you inherit it. Haven't you heard that the savings rate has been down for about 30 years

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat If you look at the FFH list, most of those people made their money entrepreneurially, by bringing something new to the market and creating wealth, not by direct investment.

still lucky

	29-05-2003 02:02									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Lucky business investment, I have never heard of a lucky business investment, people don't pour hundreds of thousands of dollars into an investment to rely on luck. Wish it was that simple.

If luck were not a factor then there would be no risk and everyone would be doing it.

	29-05-2003 02:12									#90
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Luck is random.

Most risk is not.