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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
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Here's a funny article from the FT...
quote:
Giscard attacked over EU 'core values'
By George Parker in Brussels
Published: May 28 2003 20:56 | Last Updated: May 28 2003 20:56
Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, president of the European Convention, on Wednesday presented his preamble to Europe's draft constitution emphasising the continent's "cultural, religious and humanist inheritance" but failing to mention God and Christianity.
The exclusion of God in the preamble will anger many Catholic countries, Christian Democrat politicians and the Vatican. It comes amid increasing criticism of Mr Giscard d'Estaing's draft constitution.
The former French president hoped that the preamble, intended to be an introduction to the EU constitution, would set out Europe's core values and be taught in schools to inspire generations of children.
But the end result, to be presented to EU leaders on June 20, is much longer than comparable texts. Its six paragraphs dwarf the single paragraph preambles to constitutions in countries such as the US, France and Germany.
"The European draft is long-winded, awkwardly phrased, vague on critical points and airily idealistic," said Andrew Moravcsik, professor of government at Harvard University.
The full draft of the constitution, presented in stages this week, has drawn fire from many quarters over its contents.
Romano Prodi, president of the European Commission, criticised the draft for failing to propose greater co-ordination in foreign policy or the economy. And he encouraged the 105 members of the Convention to propose amendments to the text when they debate it today and tomorrow. "I have to honestly admit that the draft text is a disappointment," Mr Prodi said. "It is in some respects a step backwards. Despite all the hard work we have put into this, the text that is now before us simply lacks vision and ambition."
Some members of the convention have criticised the draft text for failing to protect the interests of Europe's smaller countries.
Elmar Brok, a leading German Christian Democrat MEP, said the text was "biased in favour of the large countries" such as Britain and France.
On the faith issue, Mr Giscard d'Estaing accepted arguments that explicit references to Christianity would be insensitive to Europe's other religious groups.
Instead there is a reference to the EU's debt to the "civilisations of Greece and Rome" and later "by the philosophical currents of the Enlightenment".
The EU's common values are defined as "equality of persons, freedom and respect for reason" and that it has a mission to protect "the weakest and most deprived".
Britain's insistence that the word "federal" be removed from the main body of the constitution led Mr Giscard d'Estaing to insert a balancing clause in the preamble: the EU would be "united in an ever closer fashion".
The fact that nobody is entirely satisfied has prompted aides to Mr Giscard d'Estaing to hope that compromises can be found and that the whole convention can unite around a single text.
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This is just too damn funny. Who gives a flying flip whether God is mentioned, or whether a debt to the ancient Greeks and Romans is part of the text? (puleez.) Or whether the word "federal" is used?  Don't you Euros have better things to argue about? Like the actual provisions of the document? Hmmm?
It should all have been left out.
Last edited by DanS on 29-05-2003 at 07:17
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HershOstropoler
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
That's what the thread is for, Hersh. |
No, it's apparantly for some pretty dumb trolling.
The core values as far as they are of direct normative relevance are in Art 6 EUT, which is Art I-2 in the latest draft. The comments so far are so uninformed that it is not possible to identify what is meant by that 6-paragraph-preamble. Art I-3, maybe? Only your link refers to a specific article.
Then we have this dimwitted clown:
quote:
The European draft is long-winded, awkwardly phrased, vague on critical points and airily idealistic," said Andrew Moravcsik, professor of government at Harvard University. |
No really, a constitutional text is vague, my dear colleague? You should immediately publish that revolutionary finding. So far we used to believe that phrases like "establish justice" are so incredibly precise. And "To regulate commerce... among the several states" proved to be a stunning example of undisputed clarity.
What a dumbass, but maybe he's at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, so I shouldn't be surprised.
TheStinger: "Its a pile of crap from beginning to end."
Is that brilliant analysis based on 724/03 or an earlier draft?
Last edited by HershOstropoler on 29-05-2003 at 14:52
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HershOstropoler
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Read the Sun too much?
Maybe you could show us a model for your utopia.
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Bereta_Eder
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Ah Giscard... When Greece apllied to the EU he said:" A Europe without Greece would not be complete" and persuaded the Germans to drop their objections which were there because they thought that if Greece was let in then the Greco-Turkish problems would become theirs as well.
The Brits were neutral and when the Germans said OK after pressure from the French the Brits said ok too. Ah, Giscard...
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HershOstropoler
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"can't gets its accounts approved by its auditors"
Seems the Court of Auditors is taking its job seriously.
And most of the waste and corruption wrt EU funds is at the national level. Lame to blame Brussels for that, esp as no one there has the resources to realy control the member state agencies.
"and whose top officials are under investigation more times than Tony Soprano"
How often? How does it compare to national officials?
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CerberusIV
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The wording on the EU constitution is ridiculous but given the number of attempts to unite europe by force over the last thousand years I would rather see arguments with words than with bullets.
Since I live in a country which doesn't have a written constitution but fudges and invents things as it goes along I don't feel in a strong position to be too critical on this one.
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Bereta_Eder
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Hmm actually was that Giscard or Miteran? Not sure. Nevertheless Giscard is a proven Phillelline.
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HershOstropoler
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Cerberus:
Yes, politicians write ridiculous things, especially when they look for some compromise.
Of course, this isn't exactly new, either. I don't think anything in the EU draft gets as ridiculous as:
quote:
Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states... by adding to the whole number of free persons... , excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. |
or
quote:
The... importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight... |
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29-05-2003 07:09
@ DanS and Imran
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