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HershOstropoler
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
Im not sure having a go at the US constitution strenghthens the arguments for a europpean one. |
It just shows that virtually every constitution that wasn't imposed by some dictator has a lot of compromise text in it. Accusations of vagueness etc are utterly idiotic, unless you address that charge to all compromise constitutions.
Anyway, shouldn't be an issue for you. You hate the EU, and no matter what it does short of dissolving itself, you won't be happy.
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Bereta_Eder
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I'm with Prodi. Of course I suppose it should be a plus to actually read the Constitution first.
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Bereta_Eder
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Speaking of which, was the exit clause included in the Constitution...?
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CerberusIV
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
why does it have to be united either by bulletts or by words. |
Human nature.
Empires come, empires go. That sums up a lot about the last six thousand years of human history. There is always pressure for some groups to dominate and control. In the case of europe I would rather see a compromise agreed than something imposed.
It may be a minority view but I believe that within the next 50 years the nation state will become irrelevant within europe for economic and cultural reasons. The idea of a united Germany or Italy two hundred years ago wasn't taken seriously but it happened. Current nation states will come to have as little significance in the future as the principalities and city states that went to make up Germany or Italy do now.
The only questions are how the process is driven, and therefore how much violence is involved, and who wins or loses as individuals.
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Bereta_Eder
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Was that a reply to which question?
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Bereta_Eder
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Wow, prophetic abilities.
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Bereta_Eder
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Have I?
A genuine article for a change
EU's Prodi Slams New Constitution Draft
Wed May 28,12:17 PM ET Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By David Ljunggren
ATHENS (Reuters) - European Commission (news - web sites) President Romano Prodi slammed a new draft constitution for the European Union (news - web sites) Wednesday as disappointing, unambitious and "in some respects a step backward."
But Britain, the most euroskeptical of the 15 member states, praised the draft constitution now emerging from the Convention on the Future of Europe, saying it put nation states firmly in the driving seat of an EU soon to expand to 25 members.
Prodi told reporters in Athens during an EU-Canada summit the text published by the Convention's steering presidium was a disappointment. He urged the 105-member Convention to amend it when they debate it Thursday and Friday.
"Despite all the hard work we have put into this, the text that is now before us simply lacks vision and ambition," the head of the Brussels-based EU executive said.
Prodi, a former Italian prime minister, wants more powers for his Commission and for the European Parliament at the expense of member states.
He has pressed for a big extension of qualified majority voting to help speed up decision-making in a bloc which may eventually have nearly 30 members.
"I want to say this as a wake-up call for the members of the Convention because we cannot let ourselves become victims or hostage to attacks...that threaten to paralyze Europe," he said.
RACE AGAINST TIME
The Convention, headed by former French President Valery Giscard d'Estaing, is racing to complete the draft constitution in time for an EU summit in Greece on June 20-21.
Giscard, who wants member states to retain a decisive say, recently challenged Prodi to a public debate over whether the European Council, grouping national leaders, needs a long-term president. Prodi rejected Giscard's terms for the debate.
Prodi, along with smaller countries, is especially unhappy about the idea of a long-term head of the Council, saying it would allow the big countries to dominate the EU and weaken the Commission, guardian of the supranational European interest.
Giscard, strongly backed by Britain, France and Spain, says such a figure would give the EU greater focus and global clout.
British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, writing in Wednesday's edition of the Times newspaper, made clear London's satisfaction with the way things were heading in the Convention, despite right-wing media claims of a drift to a European "superstate."
"(The constitution) will create a stable rule book setting out clearly the primacy of nation states," Straw wrote. "There has never been a better chance for Britain to shape Europe."
British Chancellor Gordon Brown, expected to conclude next month that Britain is not yet ready to join the euro single currency, said London had won arguments against "federalists" who wanted such measures as a harmonized EU tax policy.
"We have argued for reforms, and have carried the day," Brown wrote in the Wall Street Journal Europe.
The draft text unveiled this week does envisage a substantial increase in the number of areas where future EU decisions would be made by qualified majority voting, among them energy, immigration and asylum policy and regional aid.
But Prodi and other federalists wanted qualified majority voting to be extended to taxation and foreign policy issues.
"(The draft) is in some respects a step backward," he said.
EU leaders will have the final say on the constitution at a conference due to start in Italy in October.
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Bereta_Eder
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As a dogma, when you hear Britain says she's happy about anything relating to the EU, you know something's awfully wrong.
There, to boost your moral, unless you're a Sun reader too, which I highly suspect.
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Bereta_Eder
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A referendum to the new Constitution? I don't think so, it will be voted by the parliement.
I thought you getting 0 points in the Eurovision contest created a bigger fuzz? Or does Sun associate the two?
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Bereta_Eder
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Rephrase: Internal british consumption material.
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Bereta_Eder
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That's good. Something to terrorize the Americans, now that this is in fashion too.
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HershOstropoler
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Art I-2 of the draft:
"The Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, liberty, democracy, the rule of law and respect for human rights. These values are common to the member states in a society of pluralism, tolerance, justice, equality, solidarity and non-discrimination."
Big ****ing deal. Just why "My point in this thread is that these core values seem dumb." - Do you think they are dumb? Or do you have no idea what you are you talking about?
As for God, there is a reason it's not included in the US constitution. God is invoked in some member state constitutions, in most it isn't. Yes it's a side issue. Just funny that you had to pick exactly that, and not say the issue of the European Council Presidency, or the Incorporation of the Charter of fundamental rights.
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29-05-2003 15:55
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