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C0ckney is offline C0ckney
Prince
Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:21
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quote:
The most power legally. Politically, the intertwining of the Commons majority and the government means that its powers are quote limited.


which, surely, is a good thing.

you'd be surprised how much the current government can get away with, because it has a massive majority.

quote:
How can the devonshire public hold the sussex MPs to account? How can the Bavarian public hold the Bundesrat delegation from Saxony to account? Totally pointless.


that's really missing the point.

MPs are part of a national parliament, so obviously they take some part in shaping decisions which affect the whole country, that is what we elect them to do (at least in theory), to represent their local area and its interests in a national parliament. purely local decisions are made by local and county councils, who are in turn elected by the people. we, the people, can make our concerns known through the ballot box, we can't do that for europe.

as for the EP, as stinger said, we all saw just how powerful it was with santer

Main_Brain is offline Main_Brain
King
Economic World Center
Jul 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:25
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Did the Topic just switch to International accounting Standarts. And if yes- why?

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:27
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"you'd be surprised how much the current government can get away with, because it has a massive majority."

I wouldn't.

"MPs are part of a national parliament, so obviously they take some part in shaping decisions which affect the whole country, that is what we elect them to do (at least in theory), to represent their local area and its interests in a national parliament."

So what for do you think we have a Council of Ministers? To represent member states at the EU level. Their democratic accountability as a national responsibility, not an EU one.

"as for the EP, as stinger said, we all saw just how powerful it was with santer"

Because you simply ignore that the EP investigated them and forced them out. What else should it have done? As you said yourself, with how much crap a government with a fat Commons majority can get away with...

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:30
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Any organisation that has to move form 1 base to another is a joke.

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:33
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"Any organisation that has to move form 1 base to another is a joke."

What's that supposed to mean? And what has it got to do with the issue?

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:34
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It was just a random anti europe insult.

edit - the Ep having 2 bases is stupid and wasteful

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:35
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"It was just a random anti europe insult."

You're an anti-EU spambot?

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:37
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I'm here to counter the automatic EU is above criticism posts form some people

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:44
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Above criticism? Certainly not. All I want is some substantiated criticism, not the permanent tabloid drivel.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:47
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Its not tabloid drivel. The Telegraph( which you referred to not me) may be many things but it is not a tabloid.

Any one who says there are things wrong with the EU is automaticaly labelled anti european and a narrow minded nationalist, but hey you've got all the grown up arguments

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:49
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The Telegraph is so heavily biased against the EU that it is a tabloid in that regard.

"you've got all the grown up arguments"

From what I've seen so far here, yes.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 14:59
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The guardian is heavily in favour of the EU is that a tabloid?

Paul Hanson is offline Paul Hanson
King
Dilbert
Aug 1999
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 16:40
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I'm broadly in favour of the EU; I think further integration is something we should embrace wherever possible, because I believe that 15 (soon to be 25) countries can accomplish a great deal more working together than they can separately.

However, I definitely think that the EU needs to be made more accountable and more democratic, which I will readily admit that it isn't particularly at the moment (although it is more democratic than some people would have us believe).

So my question is as follows: if there were significant reform of the EU that made if more democratic, would those who are currently against it be in favour of it?

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 16:45
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Got spare money?

I would want route and branch reform and a clear statement of where it was heading but yes I would be in favour of it

Paul Hanson is offline Paul Hanson
King
Dilbert
Aug 1999
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 16:47
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OK, good. I just wanted to make sure that you're not one of those "Johnny Foreigner shouldn't be allowed to govern us" types.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 16:50
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If Johnny foreigner isn't a corrupt anti democratic desspot with dreams of finishing what Charlemegne started then I'm happy for him to be in charge, it got to be better than being run by the Jocks

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 18:01 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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short, simple and to the point:

PREAMBLE

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Paul Hanson is offline Paul Hanson
King
Dilbert
Aug 1999
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 18:05
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Very nice, but if we copied it we'd just be accused of plagiarism, wouldn't we?

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 18:16 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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Well maybe you can change a few words here and there. It could save a lot of fights over 'God' and all the other nonsense that is included to try and please everyone.

How about:

PREAMBLE

We the People of Europe, in Order to form a more enduring Union, establish fairness, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the fruits of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of Europe.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 18:32 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
Its not tabloid drivel. The Telegraph( which you referred to not me) may be many things but it is not a tabloid.



that was good explains everything about you really.

Paul Hanson is offline Paul Hanson
King
Dilbert
Aug 1999
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 18:35
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He's right.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
Warlord
International crime fighting playboy
Apr 2002
time: 05:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 18:37
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22



that was good explains everything about you really.
#

you really are a dickhead, I don't read the telegraph as I disagree with most of its editorial line. However it is not and never has been a tabloid

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 18:37 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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The brit press is so xenophobic I don't doubt you for a second

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 02-06-2003 18:48 Visit DanS's homepage!
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#144 Report this post to a moderator
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I'm actually quite surprised the draft constitution didn't have a clause banning criticsm of the EU

Just put that clause in the preamble! Then all the schoolkids will have to learn it by heart!

Problems solved.

TCO is offline TCO
Emperor
Richmond, VA
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 04-06-2003 05:35
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EU is pretty silly. I went to an EU science conference once. Lots of crying about how they couldn't match up with the US in technology development, etc.

But it was a gorgeous conference...

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
King
USA
Jan 1970
time: 00:28
  Old Post 04-06-2003 06:12
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger


why does it have to be united either by bulletts or by words.


Errrrr......Because if they don't they'll kill each other and many of us along with them?

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 04-06-2003 11:20
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quote:
Originally posted by GP
EU is pretty silly. I went to an EU science conference once. Lots of crying about how they couldn't match up with the US in technology development, etc.

But it was a gorgeous conference...


The "trolling in the 21st century" conference?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:28
  Old Post 04-06-2003 11:21
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TheStinger:

To express criticism towards the EU doesn't make you a rabid anti-European. I personally am a herdcore European, and I think all the current institutions of Europe are a joke currently, and should be completely overhauled in order for us to build something great, in a democratic fashion.

However, if you are against European integration (which seems to be your position from what I read, correct me if I'm wrong), then you belong to the definition of anti-Europe.

The definition of being anti-European is that you are against the idea of European integration, NOT that you are against the European institutions or the European leaders. Otherwise, everybody would be anti-European

HershOstropoler is offline HershOstropoler
Settler

Nov 2002
time: 06:28
  Old Post 04-06-2003 11:22
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"should be completely overhauled in order for us to build something great, in a democratic fashion."

How exactly?

Colon is offline Colon
Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:28
  Old Post 04-06-2003 12:11
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quote:
Originally posted by TheStinger
It was just a random anti europe insult.

edit - the Ep having 2 bases is stupid and wasteful


It's just good contingency planning.

 
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