02-06-2003 14:20									#1
	What has the EU ever done for us. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

With apologies to Monty Python.

I know we have free trade but other than that how has the EU improved my life

	02-06-2003 14:23									#2
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non-bendy bananas!!

	02-06-2003 14:25									#3
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We are peaceful now Many Euros love it that way

	02-06-2003 14:37									#4
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So if it wasn't for the EU, Europe would be at war?

If an EU member wanted to attack another, the flimsy political union would affect it little.

	02-06-2003 14:39									#5
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What's the point of further integration, a constitution, more power to the commision and all that? What do they really want?

	02-06-2003 14:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's So if it wasn't for the EU, Europe would be at war?

May be, may be not.

quote: If an EU member wanted to attack another, the flimsy political union would affect it little.

Why should one want to attack those who are integrated in the same organization, following mainly the same principles etc....

	02-06-2003 14:45									#7
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Just becasue France and Germany can't be trusted no to fight each other why should I become a citizen of a european superstate

	02-06-2003 14:45									#8
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I would argue that we are following similar principles as a result of factors not connected with the existence of the EU.

	02-06-2003 14:49									#9
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger With apologies to Monty Python. I know we have free trade but other than that how has the EU improved my life

I don't know about your life, but it has improved mine. I was able to work for a portuguese company and use the same money there and here, no problems with permits, passports, etc.
Ah!. And good highways both sides of the frontier

	02-06-2003 14:50									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's I would argue that we are following similar principles as a result of factors not connected with the existence of the EU.

I would argue that the EU helped us to uphold similar principles despite national interests, culturaldifferences etc.

TheStinger:

quote: Just becasue France and Germany can't be trusted no to fight each other why should I become a citizen of a european superstate

I don´t say you have to.

	02-06-2003 15:19									#11
	Re: Re: What has the EU ever done for us. Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Antxon I don't know about your life, but it has improved mine. I was able to work for a portuguese company and use the same money there and here, no problems with permits, passports, etc. Ah!. And good highways both sides of the frontier

yes but as you live in spain you'll certainly have seen more benefit from the EU than the poor buggers who have to pay for it...

	02-06-2003 15:30									#12
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EU as peacekeeper: Take Italy, which is right now moving towards dictatorship with Berlusconi. Having the EU gives us lots of influence to keep him in check.

And EU stabilizes eastern europe; some of it by absorbing it.

	02-06-2003 15:33									#13
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But we don't need to be kept in check we don't allow crooks to rule us or if they do get in they don't last long.

Berlusconi already has far to much say in the affairs of my country I don't want him having any more.

	02-06-2003 15:39									#14
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just stay out, if you think it´s better. do you think anyone will care?

	02-06-2003 15:42									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's So if it wasn't for the EU, Europe would be at war? If an EU member wanted to attack another, the flimsy political union would affect it little.

That's the most important benefit of the EU - it gives us something else to hate and blame for problems, rather than other European countries.

As suchm it has vastly reduced the emnity and bitterness that characterised Europe before the EU.

Quite apart from providing a debating ground to give Europe more stability and a faster evolution rate.

If the individual citizens don't want to kill each other, this idea of war between Europeans isn't going to get very far, is it?

	02-06-2003 16:26									#16
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War is very rarely about what individual citizens want.

	02-06-2003 16:28									#17
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Of course with europes track record for starting wars, it could just be that any european super state will want to fight someone else.

	02-06-2003 16:30									#18
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...like the US.

	02-06-2003 16:32									#19
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Well the French seem to think the EU's job is to oppose the US, its only a short walk to a more aggresive position

	02-06-2003 17:34									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's War is very rarely about what individual citizens want.

A war without motivation doesn't happen. If the majority sign up as consiencious objectors the war doesn't happen. If the majority (or even a sizable minority) actively protest and oppose the war, it gets very hard to continue for long periods of time.

Or are you thinking along the lines of a non-democratic govt doing this?

	02-06-2003 17:46									#21
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger Of course with europes track record for starting wars, it could just be that any european super state will want to fight someone else.

The whole idea from the beginning of the EU is to prevent new wars between european countries. And the decolonization was finally easily swallowed, showing that Europe does not need foreign adventures to be successful.

So, the idea of the EU starting wars of agression against others continents is not today realistic. If the EU succeds in establishing a common foreign policy, it will be on this understanding.

	02-06-2003 17:49									#22
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Common foreign policy when the French want to scupper any plans?

	02-06-2003 18:06									#23
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The best thing about the EU is that it gives our idiot politicians something to argue about which they cannot change rather than interfering in things they can actually make worse.

	02-06-2003 18:10									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Common foreign policy when the French want to scupper any plans?

Which European have they scupper ?

	02-06-2003 18:13									#25
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV The best thing about the EU is that it gives our idiot politicians something to argue about which they cannot change rather than interfering in things they can actually make worse.

Cant be denied !

	02-06-2003 18:16									#26
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro We are peaceful now Many Euros love it that way

Europe has been at peace before. What does the current period have to do with the EU?

	02-06-2003 18:24									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT Which European have they scupper ?

They tried to do it to the strike against Saddam Hussein. With a common foreign policy, France would be alone.

	02-06-2003 18:41									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's They tried to do it to the strike against Saddam Hussein.

Was that *any plans* or only one ?

IIRC, the strike against Saddam Hussein was not a European plan.

	02-06-2003 18:41									#29
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Prevented you from getting your collective arses kicked in good by Germany again.

	02-06-2003 18:45									#30
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I think splitting germany in 2 did that.