02-06-2003 18:40									#1
	Skyscrapers thread: why doesn't europe have many of those? Suffering from ads?

It's been a long time since we have had a thread about skyscrapers. the last time was probably the new WTC plans. Some time ago, I stumbled upon a very good site about TelAviv, which included plans for future skyscrapers, as well as the ones already existing.

This made me look some more into it. It seems that all over the ME, plenty of magnificent skyscraper buildings are being built, In Israel, Lebanon, SA, and the Emirates. OTOH, in Europe, the Tallest skyscraper ( not TV tower! ), is IIRC Canada One. And even Israel has skyscrapers higher than that . ( Ramat Gan's City Gate, for example. 67-story building ). Now you could try and explain it by presenting Israel's lack of territory that pushes land values higher, which will cause skyscrapers to be built. But Extremely tall skyscrapers are being built in the US, and Canada, too. And I don't think there's a lack of building space in Alberta. .

Also, land values in European cities can get rather outrageous too. So, what's the problem? What's stopping skyscrapers from popping out like mushrooms after rain?

This is the main question. I would also greatly appreciate if you'd post pics of Skyscrapers from your home cities, or cities that you really like.

	02-06-2003 18:41									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

They are about to build quite a few in London, I think Manchester and Birmingham are to get them too

	02-06-2003 18:45									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Europe still believes that the Earth is surrounded by a corona of fire.

	02-06-2003 18:50									#4
	Tired of ads?

Stinger: can you find some pics of those future plans?

DaShi: how would that interrupt them from building skysrapers?



Here's a plan for a TA building that's planned to be started in 05' and finished around 09'-10'. It's planned to have 81 floors.

Attachment: pic4.jpg
This has been downloaded 352 time(s).

	02-06-2003 18:52									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Because they're ugly.

	02-06-2003 18:52									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Azazel Stinger: can you find some pics of those future plans?

Nah I'm too lazy

	02-06-2003 18:56									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

That didn't take long

http://www.aztec-city.com/future.htm

	02-06-2003 18:58									#8
	Tired of ads?

Why would anybody want to build skyscrappers though? They are so passe.

	02-06-2003 18:59									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Because they're ugly.

Someone said it before me

	02-06-2003 19:01									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Skyscrapers are great! They can be ugly, but they can also be powerful and graceful at the same time.

Europe does have some skyscrapers. But by and large the zoning seems to discourage them, they are pushed to the suburbs, people are unwilling to tear down existing downtown structures, etc.

	02-06-2003 19:03									#11
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Menlas Someone said it before me

Yep, ugly

	02-06-2003 19:07									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Skyscrapers are great! They can be ugly, but they can also be powerful and graceful at the same time.

Exactly. And in any case, different strokes for different folks.

Stinger: most of that site is Red 'X's . but what I did see is great.


DanS: indeed this seems to be an issue. But you can do it in a way similar to Paris.

	02-06-2003 19:08									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

In Antwerp we have Europe's first skyscraper, built in 1930-32 IIRC, the Boerentoren:



A few pics from Brussels:


Belgacom tower:




The Belgacom tower is located in a boulevard in Brussels-North full of skyscrapers, which looks pretty nice (except at night when there is an of average 1 hooker per 2m²) Too bad that the rest of Brussels is hideously ugly, except for another street full of modern buildings.

Tour du midi:

	02-06-2003 19:11									#14
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

indeed this seems to be an issue. But you can do it in a way similar to Paris.

Just as I said. They are pushed to the suburbs.

	02-06-2003 19:12									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

August: do you get a nice skyline, i.e. you could make a pic with all the skyscrapers together, like that pic of mine of Paris?

	02-06-2003 19:12									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

They are building a new WTC?!?!?

	02-06-2003 19:12									#17
	Tired of ads?

This is a Double Post, Poly must be screwing up

	02-06-2003 19:12									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

This is a ****ing Triple post, I posted once goddamit

	02-06-2003 19:13									#19
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes. now edit the triple post.

	02-06-2003 19:32									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

It's most embarrasing in Scandinavia. I made a check on Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm at skyscrapers.com, and there are no actual buildings reaching much higher than 100 meters

	02-06-2003 19:35									#21
	Put an end to popups!

Nope, haven't been able to find a decent skyline of Brussels; most of them just show the grand place or slums.

	02-06-2003 19:36									#22
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

In Antwerp we have Europe's first skyscraper, built in 1930-32 IIRC, the Boerentoren:

That's not a skyscraper. That's a high rise. THIS is a skyscraper built at the same time.

Attachment: 140131.jpg
This has been downloaded 301 time(s).

	02-06-2003 19:37									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

DanS

	02-06-2003 19:45									#24
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Skyscrapers are great. In America, there were people motivated to build and pay for the construction of these concrete giants. I question whether or not Europe is as motivated. Plus, during the time a lot of the first skyscrapers came up, Europe was recovering from a first war and ended up having a second. That might have something to do with it. Also, the threat of a third war with the Soviets might have played a role.

	02-06-2003 19:50									#25
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by DanS In Antwerp we have Europe's first skyscraper, built in 1930-32 IIRC, the Boerentoren: That's not a skyscraper. That's a high rise. THIS is a skyscraper built at the same time.

Got to agree with Dan there, the stuff we have here shrivels in comparison with the skycrapers in the US. You wouldn't even notice the Boerentoren (or the Antwerp Tower) in New York.

	02-06-2003 19:51									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

In Madrid there are a few.. and new commerical complexes appearing outside of the city, but we are striving to maintain our old buildings throughout the city.






(KIO Tower)


(My favorite, the Europa Building)

	02-06-2003 19:53									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by DanS In Antwerp we have Europe's first skyscraper, built in 1930-32 IIRC, the Boerentoren: That's not a skyscraper. That's a high rise. THIS is a skyscraper built at the same time.

It is a skyscraper, they just had to build a small one because "the view of the cathedral must not be obstructed"

Antwerp skyline:




Damn christians

	02-06-2003 19:55									#28
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, there might be a whole host of reasons: for example, in Vienna's inner district, by law nothing can be higher than the Tower of St. Stephens Cathedral. The Core of MOst European cities is already very dense, and I would guess they preffer to keep their historic buildings to making new one. In new cities, like those in the US and Canada, it is easy to do so. And in Asia, new regimes aren;t as squimish about getting rid of thew old and bringing in the new.

It might also be preferences. Fort example, while Mexico City is bigger than Sao Paolo, Sao Paolo has a skyline and Mexico City has few buildings over 30 stories. Even Panama city and it's cocaine towers have a better skyline than Mexico City.

	02-06-2003 19:59									#29
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Here's Antwerp's skyline

	02-06-2003 20:10									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A sad state of affairs, really

If only they'd make me mayor, I'd burn the whole city down and then rebuild it in a Albert-Speer-meets-Hongkong style