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Victor Galis is offline Victor Galis
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Jul 1999
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 04:04 Visit Victor Galis's homepage!
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A right to refuse to teach known BNP members? Support Apolyton

http://education.guardian.co.uk/hig...,967287,00.html


quote:
A right to refuse

At its annual conference last weekend, Natfhe members agreed a motion to back any lecturer who refuses to teach an "active fascist". Donald MacLeod speaks to the union's leader, Paul Mackney, about the controversial idea

Monday June 2, 2003

The lecturers' union Natfhe has reaffirmed its policy of unreserved support for any member who refuses to teach a known member of the British National Party. The issue has stirred fierce debate among lecturers.
Paul Mackney, Natfhe's general secretary, has been on the receiving end of intimidation by the then National Front and argues passionately that staff are justified in taking a stand and universities ought to protect them from the threatening presence of BNP members in their classes, particularly in the case of ethnic minority staff.

"Just as we expect members to enjoy a safe and healthy working environment we expect them to be able to work free from racism and discrimination," he says. A major obligation on employers, reinforced by the Race Relations Amendment Act, was to promote tolerance and deal with outbreaks of intolerance.

"If there is political activity from organisations which proclaim as policy that Britain should be white only, then we would expect the university to take steps. We would expect them not to permit fascist activity on campus. The issue is not a simple one of free speech - it goes beyond free speech to threats and violence."

But would it be legal for a university to expel a student for BNP membership? Yes, argues Mr Mackney. "There is a requirement on the university to make it clear that racist behaviour will be dealt with severely under the Race Relations Amendment Act."

He adds: "Sometimes you have to stand up to things and be extreme in order to prevent extremism." However, he insists the union is not seeking to ban people because of their views. "They can renounce their activity in the BNP while they are at university," he says.

Mr Mackney makes a distinction between organised members of the BNP of the kind who harassed him in Birmingham in the 1980s when the trades union council of which he was president was campaigning for the wrongly imprisoned "Birmingham six" and students who expressed racist views. As a further education lecturer he had plenty of experience of apprentices who said they supported the National Front and shop stewards who had racist opinions. He made it his business to challenge their views by, for instance, researching why their families had come to Birmingham. The reasons for moving from Ireland, Shropshire or Jamaica turned out to be remarkably similar, which he believes helped people understand their neighbours and workmates better. "That's very different from people who are members of a fascist organisation committed to the repatriation of black people - that's the distinction," he adds.

The thrust of Natfhe's policy is to head off threats, partly by training staff to deal with racist incidents, he says. In this respect universities lag behind further education colleges. "We feel that all new university teachers should be given instruction on how to handle racist taunts and comments in the classroom or lecture hall - that is doubly important for black teachers. Very few institutions give any such advice, though it is one of the major problems of classroom control, particularly for new lecturers."

Any anti-racism code in a university must be sensitive and recognise that there are not simple right and wrong answers to many questions, but that some things are unacceptable in classroom discourse, says Mr Mackney.

As he told his union's annual conference last weekend: "The whole 'war against terrorism' climate is ratcheting up Islamophobia and asylum hysteria. The home secretary believes he has the right to tell people whom they can marry, what language they should speak in their own home (though he hasn't got on to prescribing diet yet).

"This plays into the hands of the BNP, which says openly that it wants a 'white Britain'. ... Well we don't. And neither do the vast majority of British people.....Black people were central to the post-war reconstruction of Britain. Black people are not going anywhere they don't want to. And we will not let fascists drive them out. Nor will we tolerate fascist activity in any college or university or in our union."

Mr Mackney sees the latest resolution on the right not to teach BNP members as practising what Natfhe preaches.

He concludes: "If any of our members finds themselves in a situation where they feel threatened because they have fascist members organising in the classroom we would support their right not to teach that person."


I don't know about you, but doesn't this strike you as somewhat hypocritical?

child of Thor is offline child of Thor
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 04:29
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Yeah it does abit - I can sympathise with anybody who feels oppressed, and BNP members or people who agree to the ideology can be intimidating at times(the old football holigan unionjack short wearing thing).
Still this seems a bad way of dealing with it. Next thing we will see communities in the UK being cut of from mainstream society teaching their own and weilding lots of guns for protection from the Government.....like that wonderful 'inclusive' democracy called the USA

Worthingtons is offline Worthingtons
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This cant and wont happen, It is a VERY critical part of various laws including data protection ect that a Person cannot be discriminated against on the criteria of Political beliefs. End of story.

VJ is offline VJ
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quote:
This cant and wont happen, It is a VERY critical part of various laws including data protection ect that a Person cannot be discriminated against on the criteria of Political beliefs.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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quote:
I don't know about you, but doesn't this strike you as somewhat hypocritical?


Yeah... I mean, wasn't university supposed to be the place of open ideas? If they are so concerned about it, they can try to change the student's views, but refusing to teach to someone based on political beliefs is stunning.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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  Old Post 04-06-2003 06:10
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Considering how deeply the Euro's love and identify with their little ideologies, it's not that stunning.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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"Sometimes you have to stand up to things and be extreme in order to prevent extremism."

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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Man, if I didn't know better I'd say this was an onion article .

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 06:18
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What's worse is that if the university succeds inenacting this, I worry they will go into witch hunt mode and using accusations of racism/secret BNP membership to get at people not part of their PC agenda. It's been known to happen in the US that professors use the word "racist" for anyone an inch to the right of them politcally. Moreover, universities don't punish Authoritarian Communism, which is just as bad as fascism.

JohnT is offline JohnT

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"Moreover, universities don't punish Authoritarian Communism, which is just as bad as fascism."

Well, if this board is any indication, to most European minds there are no such thing as extreme Leftists unless your first name is Josef and your last name is Stalin, and sometimes not even then.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Crazy lefties are not usually in the business of persecuting minorities. Crazy righties are.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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Tell that to the minorities of the Soviet Union.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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We are not talking about what results when the crazy lefties attempt to seize power.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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So crazy lefties are ok unless they try to seize power?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 08:11
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Were you expecting him to make sense?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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No, I guess not.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 08:27
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo
Crazy lefties are not usually in the business of persecuting minorities. Crazy righties are.


You say that about ethnic minorities, but at least in the university setting they are known for persecuting people who dissent against their ideology.

Sava is offline Sava
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crazy anybodies are dangerous... left, right, up, down, forwards, backwards, inside-out, upside-down... who gives a sh1t! crazy is crazy

blackice is offline blackice
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Too true Sava too true.

delirusaum aequusaum delirusaum

Victor Galis is offline Victor Galis
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


So crazy lefties are ok unless they try to seize power?


-Well, how many rightwing extremist groups attack some member of a minority? and how many left wing groups commit such attacks? The trouble is once there's a dictatorship in place, everyone is bad.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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quote:
how many left wing groups commit such attacks?


Are we counting Bader-Meinhoff gang and 17 November (the Greek terrorist group)?

HolyWarrior is offline HolyWarrior
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quote:

St. Leo: "Crazy lefties are not usually in the business of persecuting minorities. Crazy righties are."
Imran: "Tell that to the minorities of the Soviet Union."
St. Leo: "We are not talking about what results when the crazy lefties attempt to seize power."



Bwahahahahahahaha That's going to be my new sig!

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 11:04
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As much as I loathe the BNP and everything it stands for, I think it is outrageous that these people discriminate against them for their political beliefs. I wholeheartedly agree with Rothy on this one.

However, if the fascist organisation within the uni stirs too much trouble (by attacking blacks, by massively going to a course they don't like in order to disturb it etc. as a regular activity), then heck, I'm all for the culprits being thrown out of the uni without question.

Victor Galis is offline Victor Galis
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I'm all for refusing to teach someone that's actually committed some form of offense, but to persecute members of the BNP just for their association?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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No, I mean the active members of the BNP bureau in the uni (if students can open their own political bureaux in British unis), IF the bureau decides to have regular activities that stir trouble with education.

FrustratedPoet is offline FrustratedPoet
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It makes my skin crawl to choose the side of the BNP in any argument, but I have to agree that it is very wrong for someone to be denied education based on their political affiliation.

Sikander is offline Sikander
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 13:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor Galis
I'm all for refusing to teach someone that's actually committed some form of offense, but to persecute members of the BNP just for their association?


I agree completely.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 14:00
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If an individual lecturer is subjected to racist abuse then he shouldn't have to teach tht aperson, however they can't refuse to teach BNP members as a group( even though they are scum)

Crazy lefties at uni certainly do intimidate people.

Park Avenue is offline Park Avenue
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  Old Post 04-06-2003 14:39
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What the fuck is wrong with the BNP guys? I have no clue why this racist bollocks keeps coming up either.

And again:

quote:
Q: Where do you stand on racial attacks?

A: Racist attacks are wrong, plain and simple. The majority of racist attacks in this country are committed against white British people, contrary to the image that the anti-British mass media portray. If a race-attack takes place, and the victim is black or Asian, the result is an endless media circus, howls of condemnation against the perpetrators, and more calls for repressive crusades against supposed ‘racism’. If a race-attack takes place, and the victim is white, the result is usually total silence. No condemnation, no media fanfare, total silence. By contrast, the BNP condemns all racial attacks, including those on non-whites. It is not the fault of individuals that they are in our country, and the answer to the problems caused by mass immigration must be solved by democratic political change, not by violence.

TheStinger is offline TheStinger
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Yes but that isn't what happens in reality.

 
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