13-01-2004 06:45									#181
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Me too. He and I have a pretty good relationship... including backchannel talk at MZO. How 'bout I respond that I will take the lead on diplo with GoW, directly with him and copying MZ? Throw in some placating stuff about our lack of grudges? (He is a bit, uh, 'tetchy' )

	13-01-2004 09:07									#182
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Only grudge I have is that I think he is a whiney so and so. I got very tired very quick of the wounded UnO when we did not accept what was at the time a ridiculous deal for us. I think I told him so during one of the ***** fests. I think that may be what he is referring to. Or it could be any number of us from the last few flame threads. He has a bit of a persecution complex. I am sorry if I seem unkind, but that is the way I see it.

On the subject of the cesspool that was the public forum at one point, did anyone notice that it all seemed to stop sort of abruptly? I recall flaming H_E for being a troll, after which he changed his avatar to what looks like a roast chicken, then it stopped. All within about 24 hours. Am I dreaming?

	13-01-2004 09:30									#183
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Oh, I agree with you on all points NYE, I just think we are more "professional" about it than they are. While we might have certain feelings about them, we can put them aside to make a deal. Of course, they probably feel the same way about some of us (like me, you, ralph, OPD)

	13-01-2004 09:37									#184
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Yes, pot-kettle-black comes to mind, but I'm your kettle coming to tell you about their pot.

	13-01-2004 19:32									#185
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UNO's launched a funny thread about his demotion following MZ's ascendancy. Worth a look.

	15-01-2004 17:34									#186
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Please check the RP log to see Arnelos' and Togas' messages, which I also posted in the turn 162 thread.

GoW, it seems, are pushing RP for longer-term commitments which we need to be aware of. This is maybe understandable, but tedious and complicated. A simple peace, such as we signed should be it for starters but RP want something from GoW, so GoW want something back.

For the above reasons, and the development path of RP - decisions on cash or research, short term and long, we need to chat. Arnelos says he's available this weekend. Some of us should try and hook up with some of them.

As I said elsewhere, many RP-ers are West Coast - not a good time zone for me.

	15-01-2004 17:49									#187
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RP should not expect more in return for peace. With them staying at war, they keep any possible fallout of the bobians from happening. As to whether we return to Bob to fight: possible, but only if we can seize an opportunity, or have Marines or tanks available. So no, not in the next 20 turns...

and a chat would be good, if possible... but my time-zone is even worse then yours

DeepO

	15-01-2004 18:48									#188
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RP know - from us and by working it out themselves - that full closure of the old war is needed to shake up the bag and start the next one (GS strategy). It's just a matter of how long before cold reason overtakes hot emotion.

Perhaps we should now say to RP that we are constructing a plan to build the ToE in about 60 turns, followed by the Hoover Dam 10 turns after that. We will not likely be going to war before then, and we need RP gold to achieve it. They should make a simple, in-game peace (no clauses) soon with the Bobians to close one chapter and facilitate the opening of the next.

They give us the gold we need to maintain research pace, and with the rest they rush cash and growth improvements first, while we give them tech. Then they build science improvements, which should give them the ability to fully research some tech later on in Industrial. Once we give them Banking, they should do Democracy at 40-turn, with which we can rapidly complete our rails.

	15-01-2004 19:11									#189
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I'm not sure we have to be so specific in our projection of goals, otherwise I agree with you. Mentioning that one of the few chances we have for winning this game is to get serious about reaching ToE first, and that in order to do that we need all their cash should be enough, I guess.

DeepO

	15-01-2004 19:20									#190
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Should we ask for all their cash - or just what we need to keep a good pace? Them being able to rush improvements will feel better for them would pay back well over time.

True, we don't have to be so specific in explaining our goals to RP.

	15-01-2004 19:30									#191
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Just enough to keep our science slider where we want it for out 29 turn to the industrial era plan (with with one or two extra per turn to allow us a little slack do to overlooked changes in city sizes, just in case). They can use the extra cash better themselves at the moment, preparing to research at better than 40 turn pace in the industrial era (e.g. going for industrialisation, sanitation, communism).

	15-01-2004 20:33									#192
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vulture... as I mentioned in the other thread, they don't need research. It would be most efficient if they focus solely on cash buildings, and never build a single lib.

As to how much cash we ask for: not everything, but close... we don't need it now as we can get to banking in 4, but after that all turns we can gain on our research are good. We should avoid that they use everything on rushing, and in 30 turns time have nothing left to build (if they don't build science stuff).

DeepO

	15-01-2004 20:48									#193
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I think they should start with cash builds, then switch to science so they can research a tech or two later into the era, after enabling our dash for the ToE.

We do need RP gold immediately to keep Banking on pace - we're on a defecit of about 20gpt with 60g in the tin.

	15-01-2004 21:21									#194
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quote: Originally posted by Cort Haus I think they should start with cash builds, then switch to science so they can research a tech or two later into the era, after enabling our dash for the ToE.

But why? every beaker they produce is one less gold. And every gold we receive from them means one more beaker.

As long as we don't bump into the 4-turn limit (and that's way off), letting them do their own research is just as efficient as gifting us their gold, and we do it for them.

But, there are a few advantages to them going only for gold: they don't need to build libs (so no shield costs), they don't have to pay upkeep for their libs, and gold is an easier resource to manage then beakers. So... most effeciently, they give us their gold, we give them our techs. And both will get the techs faster then if we separate the tasks.

Oh, and they can have relatively 'free' 40-turn techs as well, from time to time.

DeepO

	15-01-2004 22:23									#195
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I have agree with DeepO, but we can benefit from them do a single scientist on techs we will skip. That is the only way to get two techs.

I am not sure why we keep going over the peace aspect. We already told them are position. I find that pushing and repeating things that people don't want to hear is counterproductive. It tends to prevents them from cooling down.

	15-01-2004 22:45									#196
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I got a message from Togas and replied here.

I mentioned the idea of their GA, our push for the ToE, and the role their gpt would play in that, plus some 40-turn research. I extolled the virtues of commercial builds, and the value that would offer. They genuinely want to contribute - and I emphasised that gpt would be an effective tech contribution to the alliance.

	23-05-2004 16:20									#197
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Maybe time to awake this thread.
There's a problem in our team regarding diplomacy. It is not a problem with one of our members, as everyone involved does his best. It is a problem of organization.

To put frankly, we need a Minister of Foreign Affairs. Call it like you want (leader of the diplomatic school it used to be when Mesh was still around), but we need the task. Now, too much of this task is assumed in the turnplayer, and while I may implicitely lead the economic stuff atm, I do not have the time or energy to also do diplo things.

What we need:
- Someone who keeps track of all deals, of all occuring problems, of all contacts. This doesn't require a lot of time, it requires a very regular attendance (but a lot of our team is regular here, seeing how many times threads get read). It requires some kind of system where everyone knows what is expected from him, and what is already done.
- Someone who can 'lead' the ambassadors. Most likely, he will also be ambassador to at least one team. He should also jump in when an ambassador is MiA
- if possible, someone who is able to chat. But seeing that this doesn't happen a lot in our team, it is not a requirement. It would certainly help with chatty teams like GoW

It doesn't matter how involved you currently are for this job, nor what you think your skills are(n't). And I don't want to say we need a diplo gestapo either. But we need someone with the job title, so that our diplomacy is not the patchwork it is today.

Oh, and I volunteer for the ambassador role of RP or ND, seeing as I've been doing this for the past few months. I will not volunteer for the Minister role, I've got too much impact on team policy already.

Please comment on this.

DeepO

	23-05-2004 17:29									#198
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I'll be an ambassador, but since I'm GMT, there might be a problem in chat.

	25-05-2004 16:51									#199
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Very little comments coming on this last post of mine... nobody feels the same? The team hasn't been very active lately

DeepO

	25-05-2004 17:04									#200
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DeepO, I am new to this diplo scene, so It would be bets if i was ambassador to a single team, not minister. I could work with any team, it does not matter much (although vox would be nice )

	25-05-2004 17:16									#201
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Krill, I can imagine that, and really, your input is welcomed. However, being a minister is more a organizational job, to see where not missing things everywhere, and to rally the ambassadors to contact their teams when needed. I'm not sure you wouldn't be able to do this.

DeepO

	25-05-2004 18:02									#202
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Well. I can give it a shot, but all that I understand of the job is:

we have our foreign ambassadors to each time (or not, as the case may be...), and they have to post the PMs in the threads, say what it means, and what we can do about it. My job would be as a backup for them, if they are away, and to update trades between us and the other teams.

I would also be an ambassador to another team, fine, I happy with that

I do not understand about chat, though? Do you mean chat on the mIRC, or via PM (I think it is the later, and I can do this)

If I have anything wrong could you please correct me and say what I would have to do (indetail please), bit I'll try to do the job as best I can

	25-05-2004 18:14									#203
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Well, most importantly, I think the task should include to keep a list of things that need to be done, and things that are done. Look at the lux embargo thing: If we want to have that idea going, all ambassadors should contact the teams in question. I'm more or less ambassador to ND, and they have been asked. CH is in closest contact with GoW, but so far, they haven't heard much about this.

It would be the task of the MoFA to be sure both teams are contacted (so it is not at the discretion of the ambassadors), and if nothing arrives within a week or so, ask the ambassadors to remind the teams.

Also, it would be the task of the MoFA to channel discussions on the team, so that everybody agrees, or at least is notified of this thing going on (e.g. lux embargo), and when it starts, or can start. It's more an organisational thing to ensure nothing is forgotten than anything else.

This is something apart from being ambassador, of course. Ambassadors should be lead by the MoFA, but can also chat a bit in private, if time is present. And if you want an ambassador role: just ask which you'll want, and I'm sure you'll get it (maybe CH is attached to GoW, but I suspect it's also more of necessity that he keeps the task)

If you want the task, I would certainly vote for you. We need fresh blood in our diplo core, as it never was one of our strong points (and I can savely say this, as I've been part of diplo from the start and held ambassador roles to all teams at one time or another (except GoW, perhaps)). But more importantly, it is slowly failing even more behind, and we need it if we want to get an alliance, and invade Lego.

DeepO

	25-05-2004 18:31									#204
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Ok, with that info I will take the job of MoFA, and I wil be an ambassador if there aren't enough. I would like to open a new thread asking for some more ambassadors, if that is OK with you.

	25-05-2004 18:40									#205
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Sure Krill. And please: expect some comments from the rest of us, but from now it's your responsibility, and your decision I'm not the president of GS, offically that is still nye, and in practice we always have been a fully democratic team.

Good luck in your new job!

DeepO

	02-06-2004 06:18									#206
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Hopefully we are about to see a bit of renewed participation, enthusiasm, and effort.

Not to get over-ambitious, but in addition to our military and economic plans, I'd like to focus a bit on our diplomatic and espionage efforts.

For those just catching up, I chose the United States' Memorial Day (yesterday) to start getting things going again... I watched war films pretty much all day (bad weather here in NYC).

I gotta tell ya, WW2 definitely resonates!! Willingly foregoing some of the differences, fer chrissakes llok at the shape of Stormia, the obvious and not-so-obvious crossings to Bob, the uneasy alignment of world powers, etcetera etcetera.

I've proposed that Arrian and I split military planning into offensive and defensive theatres, respectively, and I certainly have no doubts about the ongoing economic effeciency of our empire... but then, there is all the rest.

Where are our similes to:
The Man Who Never Was
Operation Barbarossa (GoW?)
Navajo Code Talkers

... and all the other stuff that goes into a TOTAL strategic plan?

And who will develop and execute each element of the overall plan?

Now, now is the time to step forward!

Last edited by Theseus on 02-06-2004 at 18:49

	02-06-2004 16:08									#207
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I'm doing the economic side of things already, Theseus. And please, not too many other things, it's already quite a task...

DeepO

	03-06-2004 04:36									#208
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Nah, DeepO, I mean military and diplomatic stuff. Don't worry about it... if anything, this'll give you the data you need for building.

	04-06-2004 06:33									#209
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As I think about our military posture to the east against Lego, I can't help but worry about our total weakness to a backstab by GoW or ND.

I'd like to suggest a new diplomatic escalation, which may or may not fly: forfeiture.

I.e., say we enter into a formal alliance with GoW against Lego; during a set term, if they backstab (or we do), they forfeit.

Possible?

	04-06-2004 06:38									#210
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Possible, sure. A bit extreme probably, they would never agree to it I think. Maybe if we agreed to defend each other against ND throughout the Lego campaign thrown in, they would do it...