27-06-2003 13:57									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Let's not even request that they withdraw the ship. We want to be able to send some of ours out... and once they have our map they'll probably head back anyways.

Fully agree on this statement.

DeepO

	30-06-2003 03:03									#122
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Whoever is in charge of correspondence with GoW and RP, please put some pressure and get them to trade us luxuries as well (now that we will have spices from ND).

	30-06-2003 03:18									#123
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What about out WM, we have a nearly decided deal with Lego, but what is the status with the others?

DeepO

	30-06-2003 05:41									#124
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deal with RP is agreed
silks and gems for incense and furs

	30-06-2003 05:49									#125
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Exxxx-cellent, Smithers.

	30-06-2003 14:25									#126
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quote: What about out WM, we have a nearly decided deal with Lego, but what is the status with the others?

As far as I know, we have WM-WM trade with GoW ratified, but I havn't heard from UnO for some time...

	30-06-2003 16:09									#127
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Ok, so we're supposed to send incense and furs to RP next turn (we'll have peace next turn, and therefore access to Vox's harbor), right? Good!

On another note, Vox isn't supposed to abandon The Voice. They think that if all their cities on Stormia are left with just 1 pop and the city on Lego Land has 2 pop, the capital would move to Lego Land (that's according to one of their last PMs), but we know that this also depends on the proximity to other cities.
We have to explain to them, again, that what they're supposed to do is to gift us all of their towns and let us capture The Voice so that their capital would move to Lego Land, and then we will gift them a city, they'll move all their units to that city and gift it back to teleport to Lego Land.

	30-06-2003 18:27									#128
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Shiber, that's just one option... we could also do it without giving them a city back for a moment.

However, there is one advantage to getting a deal where we get all their cities for moment, then giving one back: we could do it in more stages, so that Vox is able to teleport settlers at e.g. turn 5, 10 and 15. This will help them with their gold problem, as frankly I do not like them asking gold from us. Problem here is that with their capital so far away, corruption will be overwhelming to them...

DeepO

	02-07-2003 17:17									#129
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Since we're going to swap maps with GoW (our TM for their WM, IIRC) and use our WM in a deal with Lego, and since RP isn't so keen to buy our world map, I'd like to offer our WM to ND for a measly 20 gold, on a loan.
Thoughts? Objections? Or can I proceed with this?

	02-07-2003 17:29									#130
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Shiber, we originally asked for WM+20 gold (don't know if this was ever said to them). Right now, either of the two would be good for me, in that a WM for WM, or a WM for 20 gold deal would do nicely... Don't know about the loan: either they can pay us now, or they can't pay us at all... in 20 turns time, they could value their 20 gold even more then now.

DeepO

	02-07-2003 17:30									#131
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I'm happy with that, since it's better than getting nothing for it. We could offer the same to RP (or take them up on their ludicrous offer and them offer them the rights to sail in our waters for 15 turns for 20 gold instead )

	04-07-2003 15:16									#132
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Keep in mind that we are giving RP our world map for technically free (their WM is worth near to nothing for us). I would mention to them that not only they are getting the best deal for our World Map in the entire world, but they are given a map that basically reads 'How to invade Gathering Storm', and that if someone should be worried about invasions, it's us, not them.

	04-07-2003 15:45									#133
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Not too agressively, please. Already RP is not our best friend... it would be good to mention (not specifically state) that they are getting the best deal, but only if we need something in chat to persuade them... otherwise I wouldn't tell them.

DeepO

	04-07-2003 16:06									#134
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I think MSS or maybe NYE should talk to RP next time as it is very delicate and important. We can wait for them to come to us as the agreement is on ours terms as it stands.

	05-07-2003 04:09									#135
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OPD, you are doing great with BigFree. If you want me along, OK. Early evenings for me would be fine. I am 6 hours behind GMT right now.

	13-07-2003 19:44									#136
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Shall we offer the screenshot of our embassy in Pamplona to GoW and ND for 10 gold each?

	14-07-2003 09:31									#137
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I don't see why it would hurt us. I assume GoW and ND already know of our Spanish ambitions...

	14-07-2003 12:21									#138
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Proposed messages to GoW and ND:

quote: Dear Borc/UnOrthOdOx, In 50 BC, we've established an embassy in the Spanish city of Pamplona. We're hoping to recover some of the costs by sharing our screenshot of the investigation of Pamplona with you, in exchange for 10 gold (a fraction of the price it would cost you to investigate the city). Are you interested in such a deal? Also, please keep in mind that our door is always open for business. Our embassy can also be your embassy, or as the Spaniards say, 'Mi Kasa es Tu Kasa'. If the need arise for you to use our embassy, please let us know and we will figure out together how to share the operational costs. Best regards, Shiber.

	14-07-2003 12:55									#139
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I have misgivings about that, until the team decides how much support we should lend to accelerating the RP dismemberment. If we gain no cities, it is in our interests to see this war be as long and bloody for ND and GoW as possible, or is it?

The point being, until we are assured an equitable piece of the pie, we do nothing to hurt RP. Intel can be more valuable than gold. It is worth far more than the in game gold spent to get it under the right circumstances. It can mean the difference between victory and defeat. Those are my thoughts on the matter at the moment.

	14-07-2003 13:17									#140
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The 30 turn NAP with GoW was a grave mistake, given the fact that they ***** about us getting a piece of Bob. It was agreed way too fast and without discussion of our options. We should either backstab them (prabably not possible with our codex of honor), or pick on ND as Theseus suggests. Under no circumstances should we do anything that hurts RP, not even distract forces by patroling galleys.

	14-07-2003 13:35									#141
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I agree. We have had an option cut off. I accept responsibility for that.

We do have options left open to us though. Bob will not easily keep us out.

	14-07-2003 20:17									#142
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We could just try ignoring the "no keeping cities" part...

GoW was trying to pin ND with the blame for the "no keeping cities" thing. If they aren't lying, it possibly presents an opportunity for us to drive a wedge between them, and get a GoW+GS attack on ND going after RP is dead.

-Arrian

	14-07-2003 20:54									#143
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If you were GoW, who would you rather share a 2 civ Bob with? Us, with high corruption, recently conquered cities (we can play up this part) or ND, with a well developed core? Although we have a nice core elsewhere, the point is that ND's cities are much more tempting targets than any we might capture, and more useful to GoW in terms of distance to their core. We might be able to persuade them that us and them vs ND is the next step, especially if we only have a small territory on Bob compared to ND - there wouldn't be much to gain from us, but a lot to gain from ND. And then it wouldn't matter if ND didn't like us having cities.

	14-07-2003 21:06									#144
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EDIT double post - wouldn't let me change it yesterday

Last edited by vulture on 15-07-2003 at 13:59

	14-07-2003 23:35									#145
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Vulture, IMHO we should concentrate on the advantages that we have over ND, and groom them. I'm talking about advantages such as our record and code of honor, and the fact that we are not distanced outsiders such as ND. I'm sure we can think of more.
In the mean time, we must do anything we can to improve our relations with GoW.

Last edited by Shiber on 15-07-2003 at 00:19

	15-07-2003 02:19									#146
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When is the joint GS+GoW+ND chat going to take place?
We need to press the issue of us and Bobian soil!

	15-07-2003 02:48									#147
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I don't think we should try to convince anyone to choose us over another civ. Look at RP... we don't want to even come close to looking manipulative.

I think GoW realizes that if ND takes 2/3rds of Bob and makes it productive that they've lost almost surely. They also have to realize that to win they have to beat ND along the way. Us too.

As mentioned, their best shot is if someone has an unproductive portion of Bob, and they take ND. They can come to this conclusion on their own, and we'd probably sound condescending to try to convince them of it.

------------------

We also shouldn't mention anything about what we are doing as far as investigating cities. Don't give them any ideas, and hopefully they will walk into something that hurts them as much as possible, while we pick the easy targets and get set up for a confrontation with ND and/or GoW as quickly as possible.

	15-07-2003 03:09									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I think GoW realizes that if ND takes 2/3rds of Bob and makes it productive that they've lost almost surely. They also have to realize that to win they have to beat ND along the way. Us too.

They don't have to beat us to win. They can ignore us and fortify against us and take out lego. We could have the greatest economy and military and tech, but if we just sit on it, they win.

They can win by ignoring our land. We cannot win by ignoring theirs.

	21-07-2003 02:00									#149
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Can we please contact GoW again and ask to arrange another GS-GoW-ND summit? It's important that we kill any suspicions...

	22-07-2003 05:58									#150
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I cannot believe the lack of action in the public forum.

We've thrown all the demagogues for a loop!!