11-06-2003 20:32									#1
	Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, 15+ Dead Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Surprise, surprise, in less than 24 hours after vowing revenge Hamas managed to get a suicide bomber, get an explosive belt, connect the two, gather intelligence on access roads to Jerusalem and the security inside the city and infiltrate to the city. Those guys must really be good at this. Or is it possible that this terract is no different from all previous ones and took days and weeks to plan and execute?

As a sidenote, Israeli helicopters fired on a car in Gaza and killed the Hamasnik that was managing all the rocket fire on Sderot, his name is Masud Tito.
5 more people were killed, it is yet unknown how many of them were civilians, if there were any.

----

Anyway, whether i'm right or not .

	11-06-2003 20:35									#2
	Tired of ads?

Abbas better start kicking Hamas ass.

Because the peace process is not going to be derailed by the idiot actions of a criminal group.

	11-06-2003 20:37									#3
	Increase the size of your Attachments

didn't we just have 7 dead Palestinians the other day, without the actual target being hit?

why am I not surprised...

	11-06-2003 20:38									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well, you asked for it.

Shame that there seems to be no end to this cycle of violence.

	11-06-2003 20:38									#5
	Support Apolyton

enough of kicking ass now!

	11-06-2003 20:41									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Well, you asked for it.

Well, sorry for not going on a swim to Cyprus.

	11-06-2003 20:41									#7
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Fez Abbas better start kicking Hamas ass.

If Israel keeps undercutting him, I don't think that he'll have the ability to win the resulting Palestinian civil war.

	11-06-2003 20:42									#8
	Suffering from ads?

FOX News yes, I know)

The Fatah's Al Aqsa Martyrs brigade claimed responsibility, NOT Hamas. What are you going to say now FP?


Edit : According to the Mosques in Gaza City, the Hamas claimed responsibility. My mistake.

Last edited by Eli on 11-06-2003 at 20:48

	11-06-2003 20:43									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Bookmarked the thread, waiting for the anti-Semites to post here and blame Israel for the bombing.

Terrible stuff and I'm glad the raid was launched in Gaza. I hope they get those SOBs.

	11-06-2003 20:44									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

And honestly, did anyone think Hamas wouldn't have thrown suicide bomers at Israel regardless of whether or not Israel tried to assassinate one of their leaders?


Edit: never mind, apparently it wasn't even Hamas...

	11-06-2003 20:46									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

What exactly has Arafat done to keep Hamas in the leash? The way I see it, Sharon can keep a leash on IDF, but there are several groups in Palestine that can't be controlled, or are not controlled, and that makes those groups far more dangerous to peace than IDF. The way I see it, is that Hamas acts, IDF reacts. There's no army in the world that wouldn't react, or then it's a crap army and crap leadership.

So Hamas needs to be either controlled or wiped out before there can be peace, as they don't have any intentions to stop terrorising Israeli citizens. I start calling Hamas freedom fighters when they act on IDF all the time, not citizens. So, what has Arafat done to control Hamas? Either he can control it, but is unwilling to, or he can't control it. In either case he is then unable to lead Palestine.

It is very clear some of these groups will never stop. They need to be controlled or destroyed. Destroying them seems to be a bit hard since everytime IDF reacts, innocent can get in the way, and that creates more support to those groups and more volunteers, and future members with a mission. So controlling them could be more wise at first at least... but is Arafat willing or able to do that?

	11-06-2003 20:46									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Hi people, nice seeing you, albeit on this sad occasion.

I'd just like to point out that Abbas has specifically said, that he would NOT engage other palestinian organizations by force. So, if he won't do it, who will?


Bye.

	11-06-2003 20:47									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by rmsharpe Bookmarked the thread, waiting for the anti-Semites to post here and blame Israel for the bombing. Terrible stuff and I'm glad the raid was launched in Gaza. I hope they get those SOBs.

dont know about any antisemites but you must be the first nazi jew to post

	11-06-2003 20:48									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Don't you get fed up by this (talking to both sides here)

Time to try something new maybe...uhm, hé, try peace for a change

	11-06-2003 20:48									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yes, 7, not 2

paiktis - similar to my thoughts, if not quite the same

	11-06-2003 20:50									#16
	Get a bigger avatar today!

its always because of misinformation
im sure iof rmshape saw the body of the 8 year old that israel army killed in that gaza raid he might sing a different tune that could lead to peace


then again he might not whoknows, who cares

	11-06-2003 20:54									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

i wonder what they're version for the moral justificaiton is, why anyone who blames Israel for direct or indirect guilt of such an attack must be an anti-semite... easily said, but can you actually make a point out of it?

	11-06-2003 20:56									#18
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

well antisemitism exists and is to some extend a cause that some people are bend on blaming israel and to close their eyes on the terrorist attacks that it suffers.

	11-06-2003 20:56									#19
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Eli What are you going to say now FP?

I'm going to say that if both sides demonstrated that they were capable of not murdering each other for five minutes then it would be a lot easier to sympathise with the situation.

I'm not anti-Israel or pro-Palestine, but I consider an endless cycle of "You bastards, you killed our people - that means we must kill YOUR people" to be absolutely idiotic.

The apparent inability of either side to think anything other than they are the doing the Right Thing(tm) - and that the other side are Evil Terrorists(tm) - is impossible for me to understand.

The same kind of thing happens in Northern Ireland (a bit less often these days, thankfully) and it's just as stupid there. This kind of mentality is by no means reserved for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

	11-06-2003 20:57									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I just love how in the same tone any opposition to Israeli expansionism (should there be any, this is not assumption of general omnipresence) is considered anti-zionism (zionism being the most flexible word in meaning that I have ever heard of) and then some come up with Mr King and his nice piece of wisdom that simplificates any anti-zionism to anti-semitism, as if anyone gave a sh!t 1. what MLK says and 2. especially when he doesn't reason it.

It's like the Bush doctrine. Just here it's be with us or be an anti-semite.

	11-06-2003 20:58									#21
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

paiktis, that was not the point... you can't invert an implication, only an equation.

	11-06-2003 20:59									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: The apparent inability of either side to think anything other than they are the doing the Right Thing(tm) - and that the other side are Evil Terrorists(tm) - is impossible for me to understand.

Actually I agree with you on this point, but that puts most of the blame on the small uncoordinated cells of fanatical movements than on an organized army that gets it's orders from above and is influenced by world opinion and pressure.

	11-06-2003 21:00									#23
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Azazel - he probably said it because he doesn't have the means to do it. Support him. Instead of razing police stations, make it easier for him to gain control. Some of the money the US gives you could be helpful here.

And guys, stop destroying all the airports they build with OUR money

	11-06-2003 21:03									#24
	Remove this text

Eli, FP - but don't we know who actually is on the right side? I mean the very existence of the Israeli state cannot be undone, so it should be clear who the terrorists are. It's just a shame the population in the territories doesn't actually really oppose those cells. Must be lack of education there.

It's also a shame, though, how the population ("they", "the pals") is always set on one stage with the actual criminals whenever something gets blown up. And it's strange what all the infrastructural damage is for. Of course their police stations are not to hide bad guys, but in any civilized nation there'd be means to get evil guys out of a house without destroying the whole settlement. Think Jenin.

	11-06-2003 21:04									#25
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Azazel - he probably said it because he doesn't have the means to do it. Support him. Instead of razing police stations, make it easier for him to gain control. Some of the money the US gives you could be helpful here.

I have an idea!

Let's withdraw from all territories, give the Pal police guns, train the policemen, ignore illegal weapons shipments(we dont want to escalate the situation) and help them get their TV and Radio up and running so that they will use it to teach peace to their children.

Oh, right, havent we tried that in 1993? But I guess we should try again, 1000 dead Israelis and 2500 dead Pals is a small price to pay for the peace of the brave.

	11-06-2003 21:04									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Oh, talking about Jenin, I was baffled how the action there was actually effective to some degree, there were no terracts for some time after that. Terrified and amused me at the same time.

	11-06-2003 21:07									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

You still sound like the 15 year old guy... who was ever talking about ignoring illegal shipments?

Of course the main priority has to be the elimination of the most evil cells.

But I suppose it's futile to argue anyway. You're just waiting for the S-guy to turn up.

	11-06-2003 21:09									#28
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion but in any civilized nation there'd be means to get evil guys out of a house without destroying the whole settlement. Think Jenin.

Are the German police force capable of entering a refugee camp, one of the most densest places in the world, knowing that every square meter in it is booby trapped and that hundreds of armed men guard it and will resist any arrests? What will you do, send in two doughnut-eating policemen to move from house to house and ask all terrorists to lie down their weapons and go to jail?

	11-06-2003 21:11									#29
	Increase Your PM Length

One of the problems with Abbas is that he's coordinating every move with Arafat, which hardly puts Arafat out of the picture.

	11-06-2003 21:12									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

In Germany, refugee camps can't be booby trapped because 1. there are no refugee camps, people live in cities here and 2. there are camps for asylum seekers, but it's not like they'd stay there longer than a day or 2 (no bullshit now, please) or they'd actually manage to get sh!t in there.