12-06-2003 22:31									#181
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quote: Originally posted by uh Clem Um, yeah, the final solution to the problem. that'll stop 'em. Get out of the territories.

hamas has stated they will kill every jew in israel. Not just the territories. They attempt to make good on this by firing rockets from Gaza into Israel. Israel can therefore get out of the territories when there is Pal authority willing and able to prevent hamas from doing this. Until such time, israel remains responsible for her own security.

	13-06-2003 01:45									#182
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As Ben-Gurion once said, the enemy is not the Arab extremist, the enemy is the Arab moderate. Militaristic Zionism fears somebody like Edward Said ten times more than all of Hamas put together.

Whether by design or accident, Israeli policy has always been to encourage the most extreme elements among the Palestinians. The extremists can then be used as the excuse for maintaining violent policies. "Gosh darn it, we'd sure like to pull out of the West Bank, if it weren't for nasty old Hamas." Right.

The attempted assassination of Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi two days ago, which started this current round of killings, was completely foreseeable and in line with past policy. The Sharon nightmare isn't that Hamas might reject a ceasefire, it's the chance that they might actually accept it.

Fortunately, it's a chance that's easily derailed. If the Israelis keep acting as contemptuously as possible towards the Palestinians, they'll have no trouble coming up with excuses to stay.

Get out of the territories.

	13-06-2003 01:50									#183
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quote: The attempted assassination of Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi two days ago, which started this current round of killings, was completely foreseeable and in line with past policy. The Sharon nightmare isn't that Hamas might reject a ceasefire, it's the chance that they might actually accept it.

Your very charished part in bold is not correct.

	13-06-2003 01:52									#184
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quote: Originally posted by uh Clem As Ben-Gurion once said, the enemy is not the Arab extremist, the enemy is the Arab moderate. Militaristic Zionism fears somebody like Edward Said ten times more than all of Hamas put together. Whether by design or accident, Israeli policy has always been to encourage the most extreme elements among the Palestinians. The extremists can then be used as the excuse for maintaining violent policies. "Gosh darn it, we'd sure like to pull out of the West Bank, if it weren't for nasty old Hamas." Right. The attempted assassination of Abdel-Aziz al-Rantissi two days ago, which started this current round of killings, was completely foreseeable and in line with past policy. The Sharon nightmare isn't that Hamas might reject a ceasefire, it's the chance that they might actually accept it. Fortunately, it's a chance that's easily derailed. If the Israelis keep acting as contemptuously as possible towards the Palestinians, they'll have no trouble coming up with excuses to stay. Get out of the territories.

If hamas accepts a ceasefire but keeps its weapons that might well be a problem - the road map calls for the disarmament of terrorist groups.

And the attempted assasination of Rantissi occurred after an an attack by Hamas - and after Hamas rejected a ceasefire - and apparently after Rantissi planned more terrorist attacks.

And Ben Gurion negotiated with arab moderates, including secretly with the king of Jordan.

	13-06-2003 01:52									#185
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oh and edward said never accepted Oslo - some moderate.

	13-06-2003 01:54									#186
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The current round of killings started when Hamas and Fatah members killed 5 soldiers, and 2 civilians immediatelyl after Aqaba.

It started when in the 7 days after Aqaba, 10 suciide bombers were arrested on their way.