12-06-2003 02:07									#151
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

in croatia, cell batteries are a big thang

	12-06-2003 02:18									#152
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

as are the TV sets in Greece

	12-06-2003 02:19									#153
	Tired of ads?

sovetty has the first mcdonalds opened up in croatia yet?

how are you doing embracing democracy and capitalism after a thousand years in communist chains?

	12-06-2003 02:29									#154
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I would gladly explain to you for the millionth time why Greece is a lost case of a country but I do not want to threadjack this thread.


And was Echtelion banned for mocking panag here or not?

	12-06-2003 02:30									#155
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

dunno, i suppose one should read the thread to find out....


bon courage

	12-06-2003 02:58									#156
	Re: Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, 15+ Dead Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Eli 5 more people were killed, it is yet unknown how many of them were civilians, if there were any.

I'm very sorry to hear of your tragedy. Nothing excuses attacks on non-combatants.


As for the five others who were killed, the second group of rokets hit after a group of people had gathered around the car. It is highly likely that non-combatants were also killed there. Yesterday the rocket fire continued even as the ambulances were approaching the scene.

Just keep massacring each other and telling yourselves that you're justified. You'll find peace eventually. Sooner or later you have to die.

	12-06-2003 04:55									#157
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Same old, same old. Sad really, but redictable..damn predictable.

Yes, terrorist atatcks have gone down since the IDF cracked down..not sh1t sherlock, have tanks in every intersection and you make it harder to move. BUt while it makes it rarer, it doesn;t stop it, now has it?

But the fact is that all the military action in the world won;t make it stop. Nothing short of genocide on the Israeli side (the only side capable of it resourceswise) would "win" this, though of course such an act would lead to the end of Israel itself. basically a no win situation.

As for Hamas: they are more than a militant org, they are a political movement. Political movements must be discredited in the eys of the people to be destroyed, and most of what Israel does only increases the credit the average Palestinains gives Hamas. And vice versa, every act of the Palestinian extremists increases the credit the average Israeli gives the hardliners. Wondefull, nice circular pattern that will continue for many years, as long as both sides continue to hold on to their cheerished victimization.

Do we want to say a few words for the countless more victims that are to follow today?

	12-06-2003 09:22									#158
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

http://www.theonion.com/onion3734/g..._dont_kill.html

Timely as ever.

	12-06-2003 09:33									#159
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Eli, my full support, for what it's worth. Israel... go in and win the war on terror.

They understand force...

	12-06-2003 12:22									#160
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark heres a little something from the Independent "Twenty-three killed in Middle East '*** for tat' violence By Ravi Nessman, AP 11 June 2003 A Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up on a bus in central Jerusalem today, killing at least 16 people and wounding 70 a day after Hamas threatened bloody revenge for an Israeli attack on one of its leaders. Passengers were hurled from the bus by the force of the blast. Less than an hour later, Israeli attack helicopters fired missiles at a car in Gaza City, killing at least seven Palestinians, including two Hamas militants and five bystanders. Witnesses said several missiles were fired as bystanders were trying to pull the passengers out of the car" A suicide bomber deliberated murders 16 innocents whose only crime was riding the bus. Israel kills 2 hamas "militants" and accidentaly kills 5 by standers - and this is "*** for tat" killings. No wonder the Euro public doesnt understand whats going on.

hi ,

source please , .......

have a nice day

	12-06-2003 12:52									#161
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

this is how a terror attack looks like
the pictures are hard to watch!

*pictures are from the latest Jerusalem bus terror attack!*

http://rotter.net/forum/scoop/6176.shtml

	12-06-2003 13:01									#162
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I can't take this **** anymore, and I don't even live there.

It's to the point I can't stand the news anymore.

	12-06-2003 13:05									#163
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I can't take this **** anymore, and I don't even live there. It's to the point I can't stand the news anymore.

then dont post here or watch the news , .....

	12-06-2003 13:10									#164
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm beyond pissed at this.

There is something seriously wrong with this.

If the ****ing palestinian population really gave a **** about peace they would expose the terrorists and militants and not give them safe harbour. It's becoming very difficult for me to even care about the loss of palestinian civilian life.

The nation of Israel has to go all the way. Not these small rocket attacks. I'm not talking about exterminating the Palestinians. But what I had in mind involves serious infringement on human rights temporarily.

	12-06-2003 14:36									#165
	Increase Your PM Length

Half of population of Gaza are Hamas members, so complete destroying of Gaza is legitimate. It's such a pity that Israel did not destroy Cairo and Damascus in six day war.

	12-06-2003 15:44									#166
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by muxec Half of population of Gaza are Hamas members, so complete destroying of Gaza is legitimate. It's such a pity that Israel did not destroy Cairo and Damascus in six day war.

Um, yeah, the final solution to the problem. that'll stop 'em.

Get out of the territories.

	12-06-2003 15:51									#167
	Increase the size of your Attachments

muxec, its a shame hitler didnt destroy the jews when he had the chance...

	12-06-2003 16:26									#168
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by MRT144 muxec, its a shame hitler didnt destroy the jews when he had the chance...

Is it shame, that Ming did not ban after the registration?

	12-06-2003 16:28									#169
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: the final solution to the problem

The final solution to the problem. Not kill them warn them to live before. And i must say, that genocide is right reaction on genocide.

	12-06-2003 16:55									#170
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

genocide is the right reaction on genocide...

its no wonder now why israelis have all the problems they do given that mentality.

i see you didnt pick up the irony of my statement. obviously your will to genocide the palestinians indiscrimently is analogous to hitler indiscreimently killing jews. you sir are no better than hitler.

	12-06-2003 18:34									#171
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Someone up there starts to like Helicopters...

Another assasination in the Gaza Strip. I'm not sure who's the target yet.

	12-06-2003 18:37									#172
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Earlier today Hamas declared that the Jerusalem attack was only the first in a wave of attacks(reasonable, since 20 bombers were caught in the last month alone, 1 today) and that Sharon is now a target.

Israel made 4-5 assasinations in the past two days alone.

Hmmm.... The conspirator in me thinks that if Israel destroys Hamas' leadership, the Peace process and Abu Mazen will have a lot to gain.

	12-06-2003 22:06									#173
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GePap Same old, same old. Sad really, but redictable..damn predictable. Yes, terrorist atatcks have gone down since the IDF cracked down..not sh1t sherlock, have tanks in every intersection and you make it harder to move. BUt while it makes it rarer, it doesn;t stop it, now has it? But the fact is that all the military action in the world won;t make it stop. Nothing short of genocide on the Israeli side (the only side capable of it resourceswise) would "win" this, though of course such an act would lead to the end of Israel itself. basically a no win situation. ?

yes of course a political solution is rwquired. teh question is whether or not military strikes on hamas increase or decrease the likelihood off a political solution.

On the one hand Hamas is the principle opponent of a political solution, and by commiting acts of terror makes it close to impossible for an Israeli government to take steps that lessen Israels physical security - yet it is precisely such steps that are required for a political solution - so you destroy the leadership of hamas, and then talk with Abbas, without the obstacle of hamas.

The counter to this is that since Abbas is seen as conciliating israel, and the israeli attacks are very unpopular on the pal street, since they unintentionally kill civilians, Abbas is undermined.

It therefore would seem that actions must be undertaken on a case by case basis - how important is the hamas leader you are trying to kill - are you sure you can get him - how many civilians are likely to be unintentionally killed - and how much terror have you prevented by taking out any given leader.

If you think (as Abbas seems to claim) that Hamas was on the point of signing a ceasefire, then the cost benefit doesnt look good at all. OTOH if you have intell, as Israel claims to, that Hamas was on the point of a series of attacks planned by Rantissi, then attacking him may actually improve the chances of a political settlement.

	12-06-2003 22:08									#174
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Eli Earlier today Hamas declared that the Jerusalem attack was only the first in a wave of attacks(reasonable, since 20 bombers were caught in the last month alone, 1 today) and that Sharon is now a target. Israel made 4-5 assasinations in the past two days alone. Hmmm.... The conspirator in me thinks that if Israel destroys Hamas' leadership, the Peace process and Abu Mazen will have a lot to gain.

i think thats definitely Sharons intention - if not, why keep dismantling settlement outposts at the same time your killing hamasniks???

The real conspiratorial question is whether Abbas thinks the same way.

	12-06-2003 22:11									#175
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by muxec The final solution to the problem. Not kill them warn them to live before. And i must say, that genocide is right reaction on genocide.

genocide is not the right reaction to anything. And it is not the policy of the israeli govt. all the attacks this last week have been on leaders of hamas, a violent terrorist organization. All are on men who had some role in planning and organizing terrorist attacks. The israeli govt of course regrets any collateral damage, but appears to believe that refraining from action now will lead to more violence later, which will result in more deaths on both sides.

	12-06-2003 22:11									#176
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

An Israeli was killed in a shooting terract in northern Samaria.

	12-06-2003 22:22									#177
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by GePap As for Hamas: they are more than a militant org, they are a political movement. Political movements must be discredited in the eys of the people to be destroyed, and most of what Israel does only increases the credit the average Palestinains gives Hamas. And vice versa, every act of the Palestinian extremists increases the credit the average Israeli gives the hardliners. Wondefull, nice circular pattern that will continue for many years, as long as both sides continue to hold on to their cheerished victimization. ?

Its hard to see how the act of killing a hamas leader increases the credit given to hamas. Rather its the collateral damage to civilians, and actions such as curfews, blockades etc.

Therefore the correct strategy is to maximize damage to Hamas, while minimizing civilian casuaties, and meanwhile pursuing the peace process so that real improvements can be made to the lives of pals, and they can see israel is serious about political concessions.


RE cycle - no circular pattern this week.

Israels attack on Rantissi followed an attack on by hamas, IJ, and AAMB on an israeli military base.

did that attack follow an israeli attack - no.

It followed a summit meeting designed to kick start the peace process.

Hamas did not attack in response to an israeli attack, but in response to movement toward peace. Which it has done in the past as well. which tends to make the israeli population skittish about every move toward peace. Peace can only move ahead when the Israeli population sees that such movement is not inconsistent with its own security - and pie in the sky promises of security down the road when the conflict ends will not cut it.

	12-06-2003 22:24									#178
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

"As for Hamas: they are more than a militant org, they are a political movement. " they are less than a militant organization, they are a terrorist organization.

	12-06-2003 22:28									#179
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

i bet mucex would have shot rabin given the chance.

	12-06-2003 22:29									#180
	Re: Re: Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, 15+ Dead Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'm very sorry to hear of your tragedy. Nothing excuses attacks on non-combatants. As for the five others who were killed, the second group of rokets hit after a group of people had gathered around the car. It is highly likely that non-combatants were also killed there. Yesterday the rocket fire continued even as the ambulances were approaching the scene. Just keep massacring each other and telling yourselves that you're justified. You'll find peace eventually. Sooner or later you have to die.

To find peace will requrie a political solution - hamas publicly rejects any progress towards such a solution.

There was no "cycle" this week. Hamas (and IJ and AAMB) did not attack in response to an israeli attack, but in response to a peace initiative of which they disapproved.