12-06-2003 00:14									#31
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quote: From your mouth to God's ear

Sorry im slow tonight, want to elaborate on that one?

quote: Abbas then could control Hamas or eliminate them, I would be all for it

Give it time, put my plan into action, and a minor miracle may occur. Worth a shot imo, anything to stop children of either side being killed.

	12-06-2003 00:15									#32
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Sorry, my phrase means, I hope God is listening and takes you up on it.

	12-06-2003 00:16									#33
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Abbas has said that he won't act physically against Hamas.

	12-06-2003 00:17									#34
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well... due to my name perhaps I have more chance than most (its my surname btw, not some egotistical attempt to make myself seem biblical)

	12-06-2003 00:18									#35
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I hardly think that ones subjective desire to destroy another culture, simply because one perceives it to be obsolete, is justification.

Millions of people in that culture would disagree, what makes you know better?

	12-06-2003 00:18									#36
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quote: Abbas has said that he won't act physically against Hamas.

Yeah, cause he wants to have a job.. but he's a politician, if he can change his tune, he probably will .

	12-06-2003 00:22									#37
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I will last longer in bed than Abbas' political career!

	12-06-2003 00:22									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Look up the battle of Algiers. The French broke the primary terrorist network by torturing every terrorist they captured until he gave up the man above him. They kept that up until they got to the big man himself then they shot him.

Don't forget to mention we tortured about every Algerian we wanted, it sufficed to say he/she was "suspect" or "could know something".

BTW, the Battle of Algiers, despite being a military victory, was the beginning of the end of the Algeria war for the French, and precipitated the political defeat of the Algeria war. The rebels/terrorists had what they wanted in the end (and I'm very glad so).

	12-06-2003 00:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by elijah I will last longer in bed than Abbas' political career!

Especially since your still waiting for a willing girl.

	12-06-2003 00:24									#40
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Ah well, I got low standards, it really doesnt matter! jk

	12-06-2003 00:28									#41
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About the topic :

So far, war on terror has been the use of secret police and the use of conventional military against Afghanistan. It has also been a desastrous PR towards the Arab countries, especially during Gulf War 2.

However, more subtle measures are underway : the road-map for Israel is an attempt to soothe the Arabic population by stopping the violence between Israel and Palestine ; some see the Iraqi reconstruction as an attempt to show Arabs that the Yanks can improve their conditions ; and lastly, the lower relative weight of Saudi Arabia on the world market will lessen terrorism's financing.

Even though these measures are much less noisy, PR wise, than wars, they can be efficient at long term, as they attempt to cut the long term support for terrorist groups. The only way to destroy terrorist groups is not to exterminate them : it is to make sure they can't regenerate. Let's hope the current measures will work in this domain.

	12-06-2003 00:28									#42
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Nonetheless, am I to take it that military action against terrorists, in order for it to succeed in the long term, would entail the destruction of that culture?

	12-06-2003 00:29									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Lets use Israel and Palestine, If Israel was to use maxium effort in their military to all Palestine territory and then settled right behind, over a hundred years, I don't see how Palestine could survive, the obviouse difference being, the rest of the world would not let it happen.

Why not, they let it happen in lots of other places in the world....

(Not tht that makes it right )

	12-06-2003 00:32									#44
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quote: Has there ever been an example of force working against terrorism?

The Atalena.
And the '56 war proved to be an effective detterant against Egyptian terrorism and fedayeen raids.

	12-06-2003 00:38									#45
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I wouldn't say destruction of that culture or people but more like assimilation. Once the beaten parties children start going to the victor's school the learning curve has just been changed to be more similar to the victors.

	12-06-2003 00:49									#46
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Assimilation requires superior numbers, something I don't see in Western nations.

	12-06-2003 00:56									#47
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Funny thing about war, which comes before assimilation, it reduces numbers of your enemy.

	12-06-2003 01:02									#48
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quote: I wouldn't say destruction of that culture or people but more like assimilation.

So, in other words, destruction. The imposition of one culture over another, the forcing of ones subjective over another equally valid subjective. IMO thats not acceptable, because it would involve the forceful change and or destruction of the entity that is that culture.

	12-06-2003 01:05									#49
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quote: Yeah, cause he wants to have a job.. but he's a politician, if he can change his tune, he probably will

Way to build confidence between the sides. Meanwhile, we're still the ones that have to use force. Since princess, over here, 'can't'.

	12-06-2003 01:05									#50
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quote: Originally posted by elijah In history, has there EVER been an example of force, of military action, ever succeeding in stopping terrorism?

There are at least two examples, though I doubt we wish to emulate them. The coups in Uruguay and Argentina both suceeded in wiping out their terrorist problems, by killing and disappearing tens of thousands of people, and jailing and torturing many, many more. As many as 40,000 died in Argentina's "Dirty War" and don't know the numbers for the murdered in Uruguay.

	12-06-2003 01:11									#51
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Not necessarily. I live in a state in the USA called Wisconsin and we have a high population of American Indians. They still practice their religions, cultural events(which they portray at the Universities here) and other heritage backgrounds. They are subject like any other American to our laws and they must be schooled. In some cases they are freer than I. In some cases they don't pay taxes and get great breaks on higher education, hunting and fishing.
It just matters what the victor decides to do with the conqueored.

	12-06-2003 01:13									#52
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quote: So, in other words, destruction. The imposition of one culture over another, the forcing of ones subjective over another equally valid subjective. IMO thats not acceptable, because it would involve the forceful change and or destruction of the entity that is that culture.

It's the individuals who matter, not culture.
Less cultures=less miscommunication=more understanding=

	12-06-2003 01:16									#53
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Yea Azael, unless it is happening to you and your culture.

	12-06-2003 01:18									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant In some cases they don't pay taxes and get great breaks on higher education, hunting and fishing.

That's because they are members of seperate nations, the equivalent of foreign governments.

	12-06-2003 01:21									#55
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Not really, they have reservation rights but are still subject to the laws of the United States, Federal gov't.

	12-06-2003 01:25									#56
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I'm thinking the Mid-East free trade agreement that Bush & Blair are peddling might help to relieve some of the underlaying poverty in the region. Of course the terrorists are almost never from the lower class instead they come from the diseffected middle class & educated elites so we may just be giving the terrorists more money by creating a larger pool of donors.

The Arab culture which allows terrorism to be seen as good and supporting terrorism as a noble idea is the real problem. Arab culture is the root of the problem.

	12-06-2003 01:26									#57
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Re-read your Constitution. They are subject to the laws of the US, but they have a special status in the US. That's why the FBI has jurisdiction in the rez, but state cops don't.

	12-06-2003 01:29									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I have no problem destroying cultures. Cultures are just tools to make societies better. And some cultures are obsolete.

Sorry, but this is one of the most stupid things I've read on this forum yet.

Would you like Jerusalem and Tel Aviv to be destroyed ? After all, jewish culture is obsolete...

	12-06-2003 01:29									#59
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Che,
That is what I just said, they answer to the "United States, Fed gov't" look at the last post. And at least here in Wisconsin, when the Indians were granted spearing rights, they are subject to Wisonsin law and the DNR was monitoring them.

	12-06-2003 01:31									#60
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My strategy is to live in Knoxville, TN, a city most terrorists would have trouble learning about, much less devising rationales for our destruction. I feel quite safe.