19-06-2003 01:13									#1
	Bye, Bye Estate Tax! Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: 3:32PM House OKs repeal of estate tax by Rex Nutting WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) -- The House approved legislation Wednesday to permanently eliminate the federal estate tax after defeating a Democratic proposal to maintain the 49% marginal tax on estates larger than $3 million or $6 million for couples. The bill, if approved by the Senate, would cut federal revenues by about $162 billion over 11 years and about $1 trillion over 20 years. The "death tax" is unfair and unproductive because it forces the liquidation of many small businesses, said Rep. Jennifer Dunn, R-Wash. Democrats, however, said the repeal is one more Republican gift to the wealthy. "How can it be fair to give the wealthiest 10,000 families in America a bonanza?" said House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi.

just got this off of Bigcharts.com, can't find anything else on it yet (or I am blind)..

Anyway, I think it is great. Down with double, triple, and quadrouple taxation!!! How do you all feel?

	19-06-2003 01:16									#3
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I think that inheritences should be taxed at 100%.

The flipside is, why the hell are the Republicans trying to bankrupt the Federal government?

	19-06-2003 01:18									#4
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Until the Senate votes this in, hello estate tax.

The whole midnight clayse was a purely disingeneous action by congress to keep the cost of the 2001 tax break down. I whish the Dem. Senate of the time had had the guts to fight that.

The name "death" tax is horribly disingeneous. If it were a death tax, everyone would pay it. The tax is on someones estate, not the person who died. And the state has every right to tax it (which they do once). The whole "small farmer and bussinessman excuse" is sh1t. if you pity them so much, up the exemption from 600,000 to 1 million or a million half.

	19-06-2003 01:18									#5
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Hell, Che, why don't you be linguistically honest about it and say "I think that all estates, no matter what size, need to be confiscated by force of law."

Now as to what the government is going to do with all those photo albums, family Bibles, and other trinkets... why, I'm sure the Bureau of Estate Confiscation can hold a yard sale.

	19-06-2003 01:21									#6
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good to know that i wont be taxed on something ill never recieve.

	19-06-2003 01:27									#7
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Now as to what the government is going to do with all those photo albums, family Bibles, and other trinkets... why, I'm sure the Bureau of Estate Confiscation can hold a yard sale.

Personal items would be exempted, of course. BTW, Theben and I do stand to inherit a good sized bit (hopefully in 30 to 40 years and not sooner, we like our folks), so it's not as if I'm not arguing something that doesn't impact me.

	19-06-2003 01:28									#8
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Why are you guys happy about this mess? Nobody on these forums will be benefitting from this stupid repeal. Only the richest 0.3% of Americans even pay estate tax. I'm glad to see the Republican *******s in our government are out protecting a bunch of silver-spooned rich kids.

As for the stupid "double taxation" claim:

quote: The Estate Tax is Not "Double Taxation" Proponents of estate tax repeal claim the estate tax is unfair because the assets in an estate already have been taxed once as income under the income tax. Therefore, they argue, the value of the estate should not be taxed again. The premise on which this claim is based, however, is not accurate. A significant portion of the value of all estates — and a majority of the value of the largest estates — have never been subject to taxation as income. In our overall tax system, the estate tax completes the income tax; it taxes income that otherwise would avoid taxation entirely. Without the estate tax, capital gains included in an estate would never be taxed. Under current law, the gain from appreciation of an asset is subject to the income tax only when the asset is sold. Upon the sale of an asset, the difference between the purchase price and the sale price is taxed as a capital gain. If a person holds on to an asset until he or she dies, however, the heirs inherit the asset at its value at the time of the decedent’s death. The gain on the asset from the time of purchase to the time of death is never taxed under the income tax. Some of the capital gains income that escapes taxation under the income tax may be taxed under the estate tax. The appreciated value of the asset is included in the estate and, if the estate is large enough, subject to taxation. A substantial proportion of assets subject to the estate tax appear to be untaxed capital gains. Estimates recently made by economists James Poterba and Scott Weisbenner, based on data from the Survey of Consumer Finances, suggest that unrealized capital gains make up about 37 percent of the value of estates worth more than $1 million and about 56 percent of estates worth more than $10 million.

from http://www.cbpp.org/5-25-00tax.htm
The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

As for what this does for the government:

quote: the federal revenue loss would be about $60 billion a year when the repeal is fully in effect a decade from now

That's nice. Not only are 99.7% of American's not going to benefit from this, but the Federal Government will fall deeper into economy killing debt.

	19-06-2003 01:32									#9
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The estate tax has always bothered me. The government tells us to work hard and make a better life for our kids, then they want half of what we've worked for!?! Even after they taxed it when we earned it!?!

This law is a long time coming. I'm calling my Senators right now to voice my support!

	19-06-2003 01:34									#10
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quote: I'm calling my Senators right now to voice my support!

Why? Most likely you are part of the 99.7% of Americans that won't benefit from this.

	19-06-2003 01:36									#11
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara so it's not as if I'm not arguing something that doesn't impact me.

I hope that you plan on donating the entire amount to charity in order to be consistent with your beliefs.

	19-06-2003 01:38									#12
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quote: Without the estate tax, capital gains included in an estate would never be taxed. Under current law, the gain from appreciation of an asset is subject to the income tax only when the asset is sold. Upon the sale of an asset, the difference between the purchase price and the sale price is taxed as a capital gain. If a person holds on to an asset until he or she dies, however, the heirs inherit the asset at its value at the time of the decedent’s death. The gain on the asset from the time of purchase to the time of death is never taxed under the income tax.

This is a bullcrap argument. Maintaining the basis at the original purchase price and then taxing the entire gain when sold would solve this easily. It would also mean that acapital gain would be taxed at a capital gain tax rate and not a 49% Inheritance tax rate.

The government does have the right to an income source, but the estate tax is thievery and hopefully will now be recognized as such!

	19-06-2003 01:40									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Why? Most likely you are part of the 99.7% of Americans that won't benefit from this.

Right is right and wrong is wrong Sava. How can I be untrue to my beliefs?

	19-06-2003 01:41									#14
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quote: The government does have the right to an income source, but the estate tax is thievery and hopefully will now be recognized as such!

Why do the super-rich get so much sympathy, but millions of Americans living in poverty don't?

	19-06-2003 01:42									#15
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 The estate tax has always bothered me. The government tells us to work hard and make a better life for our kids, then they want half of what we've worked for!?! Even after they taxed it when we earned it!?! This law is a long time coming. I'm calling my Senators right now to voice my support!

What?

Your kids? your kid grow up, they get an education, eventually leave the house and form their own families. You lose your legal obligation to take care of them by the time they are 25 or so.

If the government is taxing your estate, it means you are dead!. Your decendents did not earn a penny of those assets. Why should they get mana from heaven? Becuase you wanted them to? But you are dead as a doornail. The government has every right ot determine the policy concerning estates. they always have, since estate policy has a great deal of influence on the economy and politics of a state.

	19-06-2003 01:43									#16
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quote: Right is right and wrong is wrong Sava. How can I be untrue to my beliefs?

Why do you care more about the wrongs done to the super rich? I think they can take care of themselves.

EDIT: Estate tax isn't wrong. Inheritance is income. Income should be taxed.

	19-06-2003 01:45									#17
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I watch CSPAN for half an hour today, listening to all the Republican deadbeats defending this obscene legislation almost made me puke. No wonder Americans are apathetic towards politics.

	19-06-2003 01:50									#18
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quote: Estate tax isn't wrong. Inheritance is income. Income should be taxed.

It's income that has already been taxed once to that family. Thus, double taxation.

If they would rather it be taxed at income, then fine, at least that is something. Yet, to talk half of everything?

quote: Maintaining the basis at the original purchase price and then taxing the entire gain when sold would solve this easily. It would also mean that acapital gain would be taxed at a capital gain tax rate and not a 49% Inheritance tax rate.

That is actually what is done. Believe you and me, if the person inheriting a piece of property can't afford the property taxes they will be forced to sell it, even a 1041 (or is it a 1031) exchange wouldn't protect them there.

The government needs to tax it when it becomes income, not when it is an asset. They have no buisness ripping the gold out of my teeth, but when my family does it than they can tax it. Yet, if my family wants to keep my fillings in tact as I rot then they shouldn't be bothered!

	19-06-2003 01:52									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Why do the super-rich get so much sympathy, but millions of Americans living in poverty don't?

Sava, What part of my post made you imply that I don't have sympathy for the impoverished? I do. I just believe that they need more opportunity and not handouts. The government should work to create an environment where they can sucede, not one that is based on keeping them in poverty (and thus voting for the "correct" people who "help" them out) This is what is shameful

	19-06-2003 01:52									#20
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 The government does have the right to an income source, but the estate tax is thievery and hopefully will now be recognized as such!

Seeing that the individual who established the estate and who's labor went into making it is dead, the fact is that this person's estate becomes a huge source of income to those about to inherit it.

Theft is defined by the state.

	19-06-2003 01:54									#21
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quote: It's income that has already been taxed once to that family. Thus, double taxation.

Mommy and/or Daddy earned that money... Jr. didn't. Junior is getting money... and hence, should be taxed.

Capital gains is the same thing. It's not double taxation. Their money is MAKING money. The additional income was never taxed.

It's not a question of right or wrong. It's a question of fairness and priority. Personally, I think rich people have it made in this country. Government resources should be used to help those that NEED IT...

	19-06-2003 01:54									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Japher It's income that has already been taxed once to that family. Thus, double taxation.

What family? Grown chldren count as seperate families, with seperate tax declarations. I don;t pay taxes on what my parents earn, and my parents don;t pay taxes on what I earn. I fail to see any such things as double taxation here.

	19-06-2003 01:55									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Why are you guys happy about this mess? Nobody on these forums will be benefitting from this stupid repeal.

:raises hand:

Wrong!

	19-06-2003 01:57									#24
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After your deal wih your parents JohnT, you expect to be getting their estate?

	19-06-2003 01:58									#25
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quote: I just believe that they need more opportunity and not handouts. The government should work to create an environment where they can sucede

How about education, job training, and HEALTH CARE for CHRIST'S SAKE!?

Bush and the Republican Congress are cutting these programs... but giving handouts to the super-rich. Go visit a soup kitchen in some inner-city ghetto. Then go visit some a country club where Enron exec's play golf. Then come back and tell me who needs the most help.




I"M GETTING ALL SMILIED OUT!!

	19-06-2003 01:58									#26
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Theft is defined by the state.

Well at least you were able to come up with one point I can't argue.

quote: Your kids? your kid grow up, they get an education, eventually leave the house and form their own families. You lose your legal obligation to take care of them by the time they are 25 or so.

I wasn't speaking of a legal obligation now was I? I was speaking of the duplicity of how government works. They encourage us to do one thing and then penalize us for it.

Why shouldn't my children (which I created) not get the benefit of my wealth (which I created)?

	19-06-2003 01:59									#27
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quote: :raises hand: Wrong!

Your parents' estate is valued at more than $5,000,000?

Sounds like there are others that need more help than you.

	19-06-2003 01:59									#28
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Not my parents, and actually, it won't be effecting me as my grandparents passed away over the past two years.

But, still, this would effect me. So:

	19-06-2003 02:06									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Sava How about education, job training, and HEALTH CARE for CHRIST'S SAKE!?

I couldn't agree more. Where did I say these were bad? Unfortunately, the way that they are handled now creates almost no accountability or control. (For example...Medicaid will pay for an emergency room visit if you have a cold. This is vastly more costly than going to a clinic. Why can't we tell people when they get to the ER that they are welcome to be treated for non emergencies but only at their own expense?)

	19-06-2003 02:09									#30
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quote: I couldn't agree more. Where did I say these were bad?

By supporting politicians that are destroying these valuable, working social programs, you are effectively saying they are bad.