05-07-2003 03:52									#121
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quote: Ah, but its the big farmers that would control politics at the state legislature.

Glad you finally realized that.

quote: And there is no modern reason for a new succecion movement

If you can't suspend your disbelief enough to accept the basics of my hypothetical situation, then why are you even discussing it?

	05-07-2003 03:56									#122
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Southern boys keep talking about it: we just remind them that if they ever try their little dream again, we will woop them good.The only thing that could ever feed such a thing again is more "Southern pride" sort of things.

	05-07-2003 08:00									#123
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Ah, but its the big farmers that would control politics at the state legislature. And there is no modern reason for a new succecion movement, now that everyone is so proud to be an American! Who would be treasenous enought to leave it? certainly not the uberpatriotic peoples of the South and Plains.

Sure, and next you'll be telling us that there's no earthly reason for gaggles of agitated white guys dressed in camo to be stomping around out in the woods practising to overthrow "ZOG". What makes you think reason has anything to do with anything? You some kind of liberal or something?

	05-07-2003 08:18									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove My family has been southern a lot longer than yours has, but I wouldn't give two cents for that shameful affair they conducted from 1861 to 1865.

Cain't be a lot longer, since the oldest verified continuous line of the family landed in Roanoke, Virginia aboard the HMS Primrose in 1635. Unless some Vikings got lost and landed farther south, Jamestown's as early as you can get. There's another line of the family that likely landed in 1618, but there's a two generation gap in the records during the later half of the 17th century. Names and locations are consistent, so it's probable, but not 100% certain, that the 1618 people are direct ancestors.

Virginia wouldn't have seceeded had Lincoln not directed the state to raise "volunteers" to be handed to Federal control, and declared his intention to march a Federal army through Virginia to settle the South Carolinian political issue at the point of bayonets.

A little quiet diplomatic maneuvering, and the seven hothead states would have started slowly withering on the vine, but ol' Abe and his cabinet couldn't stand for a simple solution, when they thought Virginia and the rest would lie down quietly.

	05-07-2003 08:21									#125
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun There are Southerners who have moved on since the Civil War.

You're so easy to troll, seems you haven't "moved on"

	05-07-2003 09:20									#126
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat You're so easy to troll, seems you haven't "moved on"

Isn't there a difference between patriotically celebrating the preservation of the United States and pining for the loss of a slave empire?

I have moved on -- I'm celebrating the United States that exists TODAY because of the Union victory in the Civil War.
You, on the other hand, seem to be comforting your inferiority complex by claiming that all Yankee soldiers were cowards, and all Confederate soldiers were brave.

How many Southern blacks mourn over the loss of the Confederacy?

	05-07-2003 09:37									#127
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Cain't be a lot longer, since the oldest verified continuous line of the family landed in Roanoke, Virginia aboard the HMS Primrose in 1635.

Golly, and there I was growing up in Roanoke, Virginia living with the mistaken impression that it was located in the Blue Ridge mountains some 200 miles west of the coast. If only had known! I love the beach, and now you're telling me that it was right there in my home town, yet I missed it all those years. Wow! I must have been on drugs all throughout my childhood.

quote: Unless some Vikings got lost and landed farther south, Jamestown's as early as you can get.

Our American proband debarked from the "Sarah Constance".

quote: There's another line of the family that likely landed in 1618, but there's a two generation gap in the records during the later half of the 17th century. Names and locations are consistent, so it's probable, but not 100% certain, that the 1618 people are direct ancestors. Virginia wouldn't have seceeded had Lincoln not directed the state to raise "volunteers" to be handed to Federal control, and declared his intention to march a Federal army through Virginia to settle the South Carolinian political issue at the point of bayonets.

Virginia didn't have the slightest problem with raising volunteers for the war with Mexico in 1848. None of the southern states so much as raised an eyebrow over the Federal invasion of Utah just a ferw years prior to South Carolina's folly. Real Americans would have gone foaming at the mouth over someone firing on American soldiers.

quote: A little quiet diplomatic maneuvering, and the seven hothead states would have started slowly withering on the vine, but ol' Abe and his cabinet couldn't stand for a simple solution, when they thought Virginia and the rest would lie down quietly.

Yeah, people expected South Africa and Rhodesia to quickly wither away too. It's funny how people will so often cling so desperately to maintain behaviors that they deep down know are wrong. The very injustice of the system of slavery was it's most steadfast guarentee that it would not die without a fight.

	05-07-2003 10:07									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Golly, and there I was growing up in Roanoke, Virginia living with the mistaken impression that it was located in the Blue Ridge mountains some 200 miles west of the coast. If only had known! I love the beach, and now you're telling me that it was right there in my home town, yet I missed it all those years. Wow! I must have been on drugs all throughout my childhood. Our American proband debarked from the "Sarah Constance".

So I condensed the process of sailing across the Atlantic and settling in Roanoke. Golly Gee Whillikers, maybe I should have listed a day by day account from the departure from Portsmouth.

quote: Virginia didn't have the slightest problem with raising volunteers for the war with Mexico in 1848. None of the southern states so much as raised an eyebrow over the Federal invasion of Utah just a ferw years prior to South Carolina's folly.

And of course, the situations were entirely analogous.

quote: Real Americans would have gone foaming at the mouth over someone firing on American soldiers.

Or they would have gone foaming at the mouth at the notion of the Federal takeover of state prerogatives, whether you like them as such, or not. If the Feds had wanted to transform from being a limited common government of sovereign states to the dominant level of government, with states as subordinate administrative subdivisions, then there was a procedure for that - it's called amending the Constitution.

quote: Yeah, people expected South Africa and Rhodesia to quickly wither away too. It's funny how people will so often cling so desperately to maintain behaviors that they deep down know are wrong. The very injustice of the system of slavery was it's most steadfast guarentee that it would not die without a fight.

You mean... Slavery was wrong? Gee whiz, none of us even knew that. 'specially those New England banker and shipbuilder types that made a pretty penny off of it, not to mention those mill owners who really weren't concerned how their cotton got to them. Nor the wartime Yankee government who issued over 30,000 permits to trade with the enemy.